The Clash: Classic or Dud

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Strummer doesnt sing on Brixton. Right?

― Larms, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Quite right about that being no contest -- "Jah War" rules. ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

And for what it's worth, I'd have to say that the fact that the Clash, erm, 'inspired' Rancid is one of their greatest musical crimes ever. The humorless, self-righteous annoyance that is Rancid is the type of thing I'd immediately disown were I either Strummer or Jones -- though I fear they'd more immediately recognize kindred spirits, more's the pity.

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

How the fuck can the fact that those useless turds Rancid were 'inspired by them' be held against The Clash? Why do they need to 'disown' something that has nothing to do with them.

― Dr. C, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

I'm pleased Greg has mentioned 'One More Time' - a great song, which I guess is ignored 'cos it's on Sandinista.

As for comments about Strummer's voice - who do you fuckin' want singing then? Neil Hannon? Mr. Belle and Sebastian? Kiri Te Kanawa?

― Dr. C, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Damon Albarn should sing them. Which I originally typed as "Damn Albarn", which is a darn sight better name for him.

Anyhow, yeah, what the hell? How can the existance of Rancid make the Clash's music good or bad? This gets perilously into the territory of a previous thread about holding the bands inspired by someone against the original band - an idea pretty much everyone disowned because it would mean every band ever would be labelled crap because someone out there who is talentless is inspired by them. It's unfair.

And Rancid aren't that bad - they could be, like, the Levellers.

― Ally, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

It is most specifically not unfair. Not when you've had to read an interview with Tim Armstrong and realize the idiocy punk in general and the Clash in particular excused. Yech. ;-) I'd rather listen to a typical George W. Bush drone for an hour, because comparatively the brain damage is actually less vicious with the beloved president.

Anyway, both the Clash and Rancid come across as patent bores who can't do anything interesting to save their lives. On that level they're equally culpable. ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Rancid's songs sound pretty warm and friendly to me.

― Patrick, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Strummr sings like some kind of spaz. Jah War beats guns of brixton on A)Subject matter b)Authenticity (Owen actually sounds almost like a Rastafarian, unlike the afore mentioned spaz) and c)Bassline (i can do both!)

Also a double lp was a bit of a bad idea, but a triple!?

― Nick Greenfield, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Nah Ned, plenty of people have gone down a similar path (witness: Rancid references) but they all sucked. I didn't say nobody had tried.

Tanya: Well, if you are such a fan of Marillion, then you should be happy that they have aged well and nobody has surpassed them in recent years and made them look bad! ;)

Oh yes, and you can chalk me up as one who thinks both the Pistols (all 1 albums of them) and the Clash are brilliant.

― Tim Baier, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Classic. All "London Calling" is brilliant, particularly Lost in the Supermarket. Sandanista is equally great.

― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Classic. Sex Pistols were boring, turgid Marilyn Manson/Late Prodigy forerunners. The Clash were so much more than a straight punk band. Granted, some tracks (Hitsville UK, This is Radio Clash, The Magnificent 7) were really truly terrible. But the bulk of the Clash's material is pure classic. I don't understand why people find strummer's voice irritating (sure, it's not going to be as sweet as apple blossom - this is punk!)...

― Charlie Frame, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Yes, but even by punk standards Strummer sounds like a spaz. And just what was that Levi's ad all about? Eh?

― DG, Wednesday, 21 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Hang on: it ISN'T unfair to call the Clash crap because Rancid are crap? Right.

Therefore, the Smiths are the worst band of all time because Gene suck.

― Ally, Thursday, 22 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Given how much I loathe Gene, I'm completely in agreement with this assessment! Neither Morrissey nor Marr should be forgiven -- especially since apparently El Moz has willingly deigned a few Gene shows with his presence.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Hmmm. Okay, fair enough, as long as it goes on universally, I'm fine with this theory.

Wire = Elastica = Crap. Madonna = Christina Aguilera = Crap. Clash = Rancid = Crap.

― Ally, Thursday, 22 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-five years ago)

four weeks pass...

bankrobber 7" single = classic EVERYTHING ELSE = kilo-dud the ruts did it, like, 100 x better :)

"we're middle class - yeah, yeah, yeah ----we come from public school - yeah, yeah, yeah" ;-)

"they told us to release complete control - so we DID!" x0x0

― norman fay, Thursday, 19 April 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

one month passes...

Worth reviving this thread in the light of the 'Never Mind the Bollocks' debate. The potency of 'The Clash' myth never ceases to amaze, once worked with prisoners in Leeds with Clash tatoos, Greil Marcus etc. Yet the few times I've tried listening to one of their albums from start to finish all I hear is dull, lame, grey, piss-weak pub rock.

― Stevo, Wednesday, 6 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

Yeah, but wasn't 'Sandinista!' their 'Kid A'?

― tarden, Wednesday, 6 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

No. "Sandinista" was their "Tales From Topographic Oceans". I have owned both, so I know, right?

x0x0

― Norman Fay, Thursday, 7 June 2001 00:00 (twenty-five years ago)

one month passes...

I thing the Clash beats Madonna any day of week. Tell, me are you going out this weekend? Thank you. Again, thanks.

― kenny shohan, Monday, 6 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

two years pass...

"Cool Confusion" is classic, too.

― adaml (adaml), Sunday, 28 September 2003 22:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Classic.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 28 September 2003 23:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not in agreement of saying a band is crap, because of the crap it inspired. If we were thinking that way, everything would be crap, cuz any good band has inspired their bits of crap. All of grunge would be down the toilet for making Creed, as would be all NWOBM for giving way to hair metal, all of classic punk would be down the toilet for inspiring all the hordes of late 90s 'punk' bands ala blink-182, rancid, etc. etc. etc. Pavement, Pixies, Replacements, Beatles, all crap if you judge 'em by those standards.

― Cacaman Flores, Sunday, 28 September 2003 23:18 (twenty-two years ago)

All of grunge would be down the toilet for making Creed

I think I'd be fine with that, actually.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 28 September 2003 23:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Last week I saw a grunge covers band called "Chaingarden". They did passable imitations of Stone Temple Pilots, Alice In Chains, and Soundgarden but did a terrible disservice to the admittedly evil Smashing Pumpkins by doing "Today". I went as a favor to Mrs Anthony Kyle Monday. I also saw another band do a country and western version of Just Like Heaven.

― adaml (adaml), Sunday, 28 September 2003 23:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I also saw another band do a country and western version of Just Like Heaven.

See, that sounds cool.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 28 September 2003 23:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Stole the only gaaaal ah luuuhved, drowned 'er deep inside a' meeee..."

― adaml (adaml), Monday, 29 September 2003 00:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I should add that the same band did Hungry Like A Wolf and Train In Vain.

― adaml (adaml), Monday, 29 September 2003 00:20 (twenty-two years ago)

GENIUS. Even with the Clash song, but anyway.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 29 September 2003 01:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned, I don't love ya no more. :P

All those digs at the Clash: venomous hogwash. SCORIA. ALL OF IT!!!!!! TAKE IT BACK, SUCKAZ!

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Monday, 29 September 2003 03:08 (twenty-two years ago)

"Clash weren't real punks, maaaaaaaaan"
argument is British stuff
I don't understand.

I love them so much,
always did and always will,
fun and cool and smart

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 29 September 2003 04:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Clash are obviously so much more classic than, say, Sex Pistols.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 29 September 2003 07:50 (twenty-two years ago)

the clash are like the LAST band i'd have expected you to like, geir!

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 29 September 2003 08:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't think he said he liked 'em. just that they are better than the pistols (more 'they are more melodic'-type boloocks).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 29 September 2003 08:39 (twenty-two years ago)

i guess so if you mean the later stuff, but the first album is about as noisy and ugly and non-geirish as albums get.

― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 29 September 2003 09:52 (twenty-two years ago)

The Clash may have made a lot of noise during their early career, but even from Day One they knew how to write great melodies. And the fact that they knew how to play their instruments also gave them a wider selection of chords to choose from.

I do prefer "London Calling", but their debut is also nice enough due to its great melodies and choruses.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 29 September 2003 10:39 (twenty-two years ago)

The funny thing is, Geir's reasoning probably has a lot to do with why some people say they aren't punk.

― dleone (dleone), Monday, 29 September 2003 11:00 (twenty-two years ago)

From "London Calling" onwards, claiming Sex Pistols were punk would be absurd anyway

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 29 September 2003 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

That would be Clash, not SP, obviously...

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 29 September 2003 22:22 (twenty-two years ago)

(I think I might regret this...)
Geir is my new hero.

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 03:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not in agreement of saying a band is crap, because of the crap it inspired.

Yeah, this = true, but at the same time, if you think a band sucks (like the clash, who i still think are totally dud) and there are a load of shit bands who copy them, then you can't help but hate them all the more!

(gier - the buzzcocks and the stranglers wrote better tunes than the clash or the pistols, as you must surely know!)

NB if you are near a branch of hmv, you can get the ruts' "the crack" c/w loads of bonus cuts for 4.99

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Coming to this particular party a bit late, but FUCKING CLASSIC, of course. Only a true tete-du-merde could have anything negative to say about Joe Strummer, as far as I'm concerned. Some albums better than others, but irrefutably a truly great band. Are they to blame for Rancid? Sure, but every great band has inspired crap bands (i.e. if that's your biggest reason for hating the Clash, you're a boob!)

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 22:26 (twenty-two years ago)

CLASSIC. Today I got knocked back by the local Megawhore in my latest bid to escape the supermarket. Felt like worthless shit until I put on 'From Here To Eternity' and did the washing-up.

― Ben Dot, Tuesday, 30 September 2003 23:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Buzzcocks and Stranglers, but I still feel like the great singalong chorus of "Clash City Rockers" is just as great as anything those two ever did.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 13:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Rather disappointingly, pretty much dud with classic moments but, when all is said and done, dud

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 13:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I won't pit the Clash against the Stranglers and Buzzcocks, as I love them all dearly (though the Stranglers would invariably trounce the other two).

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 13:35 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

Fuck anyone who deosn't like The Clash.

― .adam (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 11 January 2005 22:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Agreed.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Tuesday, 11 January 2005 22:47 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

How killer is the arrangement on "I'm Not Down"? There has to be at least four different stylistic sections to this tune, but it all sounds of a piece.

― Keith C (lync0), Friday, 20 January 2006 04:03 (twenty years ago)

Skipping 214 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

https://trouserpress.com/letsagetabitarockin/

― I, the Jukebox Jury (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 22 September 2021 14:09 (four years ago)

That's incredible.

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 22 September 2021 14:38 (four years ago)

Cool. Haven't really read it myself yet /pvmic.

― I, the Jukebox Jury (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 22 September 2021 15:01 (four years ago)

that looks amazing, thanks. just skimmed a bit for now.

― sleeve, Wednesday, 22 September 2021 22:54 (four years ago)

yeah it's a great read.

― visiting, Wednesday, 22 September 2021 23:22 (four years ago)

Bloody good, that. Seemed a little soft at first, but bears down more and more on particulars of the sound and how it got that way. I remember (in a Trouser Press ad) a 101ers LP or EP[, Elgin Avenue Breakdown w some of the songs mentioned here; an expanded reissue came out after Strummer died, but I never heard either version. Although I think there may have been excerpts in Julian Temple's good Strummer doc, The Future Is Unwritten.

― dow, Wednesday, 22 September 2021 23:39 (four years ago)

yep it was released in 1981

https://www.discogs.com/The-101ers-Elgin-Avenue-Breakdown/master/193698

― sleeve, Thursday, 23 September 2021 00:36 (four years ago)

eleven months pass...

Post today (Saturday) by Glen Matlock.

― birdistheword, Sunday, 4 September 2022 05:00 (three years ago)

Cool!

― When Harpo Played His ARP (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 4 September 2022 05:08 (three years ago)

Mick's been keeping a very low profile for quite a while now.

― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Sunday, 4 September 2022 05:16 (three years ago)

― Vance Vance Devolution (sic), Sunday, 4 September 2022 05:52 (three years ago)

Except for the Combat Rock reissue, I didn't think Mick had been very active, but apparently he's popped up in a few places in the past few years (recording with the Avalanches in 2020, the Flaming Lips in 2019, etc.) I think he just took a break after producing Kitty, Daisy & Lewis in 2014 - he did a ton of stuff in the first half of the '10s, so he probably needed it.

― birdistheword, Sunday, 4 September 2022 18:39 (three years ago)

two months pass...

I just came across a book about The Clash in America that I hadn’t know about but feel like I will have to read right now.

― The Dark End of the Tweet (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 27 November 2022 00:24 (three years ago)

What's the name?

I just learned that Elvis Costello's This Year's Model master tape had Costello and Mick Jones of The Clash playing tandem rhythm guitar on a coda to “Pump It Up,” that got edited out of the album release (but can now be be heard on Costello's Spanish Model version of the album with the guest vocalists ) and that Mick Jones played on the Costello song "Big Tears"

― curmudgeon, Sunday, 27 November 2022 05:09 (three years ago)

I knew the latter fact but not the former.

― The Dark End of the Tweet (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 27 November 2022 05:10 (three years ago)

Stealing All Transmissions: A Secret History of The Clash, by Randal Doane.

― The Dark End of the Tweet (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 27 November 2022 05:14 (three years ago)

https://artsfuse.org/117329/fuse-book-review-stealing-all-transmissions-how-the-clash-conquered-america/

― The Dark End of the Tweet (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 27 November 2022 18:20 (three years ago)

Thanks---btw did I mention my Voice coverage of The Sandinista! Project, archived here w link to more TSP comments on my Nashville Scene ballot: https://myvil.blogspot.com/2016/06/clash-stash-actually-cuts-crap.html
Also, did yall see this?

The new Joe Strummer boxset, Joe Strummer 002: The Mescaleros Years, will be released on September 16th, 2022, as part of the celebrations honouring Joe’s 70th birthday year. The first-ever comprehensive collection highlighting Joe’s work with his post-Clash band, The Mescaleros, the collection includes remastered editions of all three of the band’s studio albums, plus 15 rare and unreleased tracks spanning the first demos Joe wrote for the Mescaleros, and outtakes of several tracks of Joe’s final recordings with the band...

https://www.joestrummer.com/news/new-joe-strummer-002-the-mescaleros-years-boxset-available-for-pre-order

― dow, Sunday, 27 November 2022 20:03 (three years ago)

Cool.

That book starts off talking about this, of course:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyuGLHnZhOI

― The Dark End of the Tweet (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 28 November 2022 02:38 (three years ago)

eight months pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDDZgEHaczA

― Thus Sang Freud, Saturday, 12 August 2023 16:14 (two years ago)

toss up whether to put it here or on the kevin ayers thread.

― Thus Sang Freud, Saturday, 12 August 2023 16:16 (two years ago)

Wow, guess I have to click to see.

― No Zing Compares 2 HOOS (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 12 August 2023 16:21 (two years ago)

Viz. Costello thing: yes! That Spanish This Year Model is super great. You also get to hear how No Action and I Don't Want to Go to Chelsea were recorded basically as one track. I was fearful of that project but it's so good. Now if we could only get the real Rat Patrol (which I know we won't).

― three of the doctor's valuable bats are now dead (broom air), Sunday, 13 August 2023 23:35 (two years ago)

eleven months pass...

Somewhere in the world there’s probably a kid named Topher Headon and neither he nor his parents have a clue.

― It was on a accident (hardcore dilettante), Monday, 5 August 2024 22:27 (one year ago)

ten months pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6onlQ2Kr-Vc

― sleeve, Sunday, 15 June 2025 19:16 (eleven months ago)

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