ODD FUTURE WOLF GANG KILL THEM ALL

i'm amazed and kind of disappointed by all the focus on tyler's homophobic language itt. disappointed by everyone who wants to make it Big Important Issue Number One. relative to tyler's violent misogyny, it's trivial, hardly worth mentioning. that he throws around the word "faggot" may be offensive, but it's nothing compared to goblin's pervasive, ugly and often vicious debasement of women ("bitches", what have you).

there's a massive hypocrisy at work in anyone who finds cause for offense in a few homophobic slurs but not in the ENDLESS jokes about raping and murdering women. i wonder whether people are channeling so much aggression into the former to avoid having to confront the latter.

well personally the fact that i'm fucking tired of both of them is why i won't be buying goblin

?

p sure everyone that's registered any kind of discomfort with his use of the word 'faggot' isn't like well yeah all the rape stuff is fine

like i think ppl who put two creams & two sugars in their coffee are gross but lately ive been putting like three creams one sugar :/

p sure everyone that's registered any kind of discomfort with his use of the word 'faggot' isn't like well yeah all the rape stuff is fine

sure, but that's only part of it. as hate speech goes, "faggot" = "bitch". but we've been getting an awful lot of mileage out of disapproving of only one of those two words over the last couple hundred posts. and the words themselves are nearly irrelevant relative to the sentiments they're used to express. there's basically no overt homophobia on this record. tyler even subverts his own use of the word. "faggot," repeatedly. but the misogyny (which is by no means limited to rape jokes) seems to be getting a pass.

i think maybe everyone is just tuckered out

probably for the best

yeah, its so new and novel and interesting that a rapper says "bitch" a lot; lets talk about that for 100 posts

that sentiment can basically be applied to this whole thread

saying "faggot" is hardly new, novel or interesting whiney, and some folks seem perfectly happy to wax outraged about that

or yeah, x-post

i think we already established that while rappers say faggot, we couldn't name a rap record that says faggot FOURTEEN TIMES. Also i don't think anyone is "outraged" but lex

GOON DUO (ay!)

feel like my 7yo daughter summed up this discussion when I picked her up from girl scouts today

"why is all the cool music inappropriate for kids?"

otm

i'm not sure that word count is really the best criteria

play her some fleet foxes

don't do that, fleet foxes are inappropriate for anyone with a brain more evolved than a 6-year-old's

virtually impossible to bemoan misogyny w/o ilx bros getting all LOL MARC LOI abt it - it's a lost battle imo

dude for real?

if we can't lol at marc loi we should just shut down the internet

gbx yah I can't imagine fruitfully trying to have a discussion about misogyny in popular music here

man that bums me out because i really dont think most ilx bros are of the 'cool with misogyny' mindset

haha fleet foxes would last about 10 seconds, she's into marnie stern and pj harvey tho

she's mad cuz I keep turning off max b

i would love to have a discussion about misogyny in rap, but (protip) you will look like an enormous fucking herb using Schrieber-approved flavor of the month witchhouse rap fashion plates as the news peg to hang your hat on

virtually impossible to bemoan misogyny w/o ilx bros getting all LOL MARC LOI abt it - it's a lost battle imo

^ this, which makes all the chest-pounding about homophobia seem less like a considered and deeply-felt moral response and more like a knee jerk response to a socially forbidden "bad word." cuz man, homophobia is hardly the primary evil on display here.

i would love to have a discussion about misogyny in rap, but (protip) you will look like an enormous fucking herb using Schrieber-approved flavor of the month witchhouse rap fashion plates as the news peg to hang your hat on

so, uh, what do you recommend? (and who worries about being seen as a "herb" by the cool kids? really?)

i don't know, anyone who wants to be a good ILX poster, which explains a lot, actually

but seriously, stop playing babe in the woods here. We're talking about homophobia right now because tyler exhibits a nuanced, newish, weird, curioys type of teenage homophobia that is a world away from T.I. saying "faggot" in a song.

His woman-hating shit is just Eazy E mark 5000000000

requisite "NO, AEROSMITH, IM NOT ENDORSING HIS HOMOPHOBIA, FFS" post

homophobia is hardly the primary evil on display here.

yeah but it is the one I might have a fruitful conversation with people I enjoy discussing music with, and the one that stands out. whereas like I mean, look, use of "bitch" as substantive for "woman," that's a lost battle, I might as well be complaining about the undervaluing of labor in a market economy you know - everybody accepts that "bitch" is ok and even if it's not what the hell, and besides, it's valid to say that the misogynist assumptions that allow "bitch" are present/pervasive in rock, country, etc (which is why I said "popular music," not "rap" as whiney limited it to - the essentialisms on display in rock are often much more offensive & to my mind destructive than simple misogynistic language)

if you guys want to have a serious talk about misogyny in rap ca 2011, i'd love to have it in another thread

(and who worries about being seen as a "herb" by the cool kids? really?)

lol is this a q or a very well-aimed barb

we post to a message board where ppl get mad abt pomplamoose

the fact that tyler says 'bitch' is like the least disturbing manifestation of misogyny on these records!

We're talking about homophobia right now because tyler exhibits a nuanced, newish, weird, curioys type of teenage homophobia

i'll grant you the cool/uncool thing, cuz i clearly don't give a fuck about being a good ILX poster in that sense, and grant too that tyler's casual use of "faggot" is somewhat novel (not really, but okay). understand how that makes it an interesting topic of discussion.

what i don't get like is the way in which that discussion quickly nozzled out into a festival of moral opprobrium when there are so many other things on the record that practically beg for an strong and outraged moral response. of course pop misogyny is old hat, but that doesn't make it morally irrelevant, right? and making a scapegoat of tyler for his casual/stupid use of "faggot" - while seeming to give him (and so many other artists) a pass on much, much worse - strikes me as terrible hypocrisy.

getting redundant here, sorry all...

the fact that tyler says 'bitch' is like the least disturbing manifestation of misogyny on these records!

OTM

what a weird convo guys

contenderizer's new tack of pointing out the hypocrisy of no one on ilx who is mad about homophobia but not misogyny

vs.

whiney's claim that for some reason a rapper who is critically acclaimed while rapping openly about rape is just another link in a long chain of eazy e calling women bitches

i assume you're not a Fleet Foxes fan stumbling into the OF debate, so i'll spare you the running list of rappers who talk openly about rape, idiot

I mean, look, use of "bitch" as substantive for "woman," that's a lost battle, I might as well be complaining about the undervaluing of labor in a market economy you know - everybody accepts that "bitch" is ok and even if it's not what the hell, and besides, it's valid to say that the misogynist assumptions that allow "bitch" are present/pervasive in rock, country, etc

aero, i'm usually 100% in your corner when it comes to the real world application of personal core values (tearing it up re: abortion rights in politics threads), but i'm a little at a loss here. not so long ago, we might easily have said that using "faggot" for gay man was a lost battle, that homophobia itself was a lost battle, that straight society would simply never accept homosexuality in any form. same goes for certain racist language and assumptions. the ease with which we roll over in accepting "bitch" and other forms of misogyny depresses me. not saying i don't understand, but i'm still disappointed.

sorry. i know this thread isn't the place for it. i get wound up, you know?

deej, your constant stream of pedantic diharrea is the most useless thing about this board, and i've clicked on ilxor polls

hi deej!

aero, i'm usually 100% in your corner when it comes to the real world application of personal core values (tearing it up re: abortion rights in politics threads), but i'm a little at a loss here. not so long ago, we might easily have said that using "faggot" for gay man was a lost battle, that homophobia itself was a lost battle, that straight society would simply never accept homosexuality in any form. same goes for certain racist language and assumptions. the ease with which we roll over in accepting "bitch" and other forms of misogyny depresses me. not saying i don't understand, but i'm still disappointed.

it's just that I don't think I'll ever get anywhere trying to argue on a music message board in 2011 that the use of "bitch" is incredibly offensive & harmful & damaging - struggle to imagine how to get to a point where sexism might be something people would address with more than a why-this-doesn't-prevent-me-from-enjoying-the-music passing comment in an aboveground review

I mean don't get me wrong it's despair functioning here but at some point you just gotta say, you know what, some things I maybe can have an impact on by using reason - persuading men younger than me that "bitch" is always wrong isn't one of those areas

what if i am posting a recipe for a bitchin cutting-edge stew

sorry

anyway it's past my bedtime & the Cubs have a comfortable lead so g'night

lol I used to rep Cali so you would get a pass from me there

wait your a cubs fan

dude have you been to wrigleyville

yeah it was kinda fratty but most of the dudes there knew "your" from "you're"