ODD FUTURE WOLF GANG KILL THEM ALL

i do now!

xp

real=read

aerosmith: that would be a no. sounds like a great dinner party guest.

miles davis's philosophies about beating women are presented in all seriousness and have evident real-world consequences and followers?

It was real consequence for Betty Davis and Cicely Tyson who were scared shit of him.

^what he said
waaaaaaay off topic now but this article left me with such mixed emotions this morning
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/us/11nazi.html

Davis's music isn't an attempt to frame an ideology of misogyny. varg's music, on the other hand, is a nationalistic expression. tyler's lyrics - the jury's out; people like to invoke "persona," but his use of homophobic language IRL puts that defense into question

imo

miles davis's philosophies about beating women are presented in all seriousness and have evident real-world consequences and followers?

It was real consequence for Betty Davis and Cicely Tyson who were scared shit of him.

― Trying to Find Every Nicole Wray Song Is A Bitch (lilsoulbrother), Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:03 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

philosophies are not actions

aero, you honestly think "the jury is out" on whether tyler actually hates gay people?

that's not what he said "the jury's out" on fyi

that his music is attempt to frame an ideology of homophobia?

which is an very grad school way of saying "hates gay people"

Davis's music isn't an attempt to frame an ideology of misogyny. varg's music, on the other hand, is a nationalistic expression. tyler's lyrics - the jury's out; people like to invoke "persona," but his use of homophobic language IRL puts that defense into question

imo

― Steven Tyler the Creator (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, May 12, 2011 1:06 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

in that case contenderizer's entire argument is wrong; i was making mine on contenderizer's assertion that varg's music was independent of his actions outside of it

philosophies are not actions

― contenderoni (some dude), Thursday, May 12, 2011 1:08 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

but miles' philosophies had real world consequences ... regardless? i cant see that hair if you slice it any thinner

regardless, if miles doesnt count bcuz he doesnt have legions of followers then contenerizer's point falls apart anyway because the only artist we can come up with who manages to make tyler look good is the hitler of music

whether his use of rape fantasy & hate speech is a literary project (hardly unprecedented) or self-expression. the latter possibility at least insofar as homophobia is concerned is kinda strongly suggested by his use of "faggot" as an IRL insult toward interviewers he doesn't like.

philosophies are not actions

I'm not understanding what you are trying to say? I'm not saying people should ban Miles Davis (I'm a fan myself), but it will be stupid to think his "philosophy" didn't have real world consequences for some people. Even if you don't know those people and they are famous. Plus, domestic abuse is obviously a real problem. Davis's music thankfully didn't reflect that philosophy.

in that case contenderizer's entire argument is wrong; i was making mine on contenderizer's assertion that varg's music was independent of his actions outside of it

lots of metal dudes will argue that because what they're engaging in Varg's music isn't his ideology (this position also works vis-a-vis Wagner) but the groove, the sound. That Varg is on record as trying to not make music that resembles, quoting Varg here "negro culture," seems to me inseparable from the music he makes. I feel the same about Wagner and his desire to rid his music of Jewish elements. metal d00ds of conscience can differ on this question and still thrash together tho.

lilsoulbrother, the sentence had a particular meaning and you're twisting around words to equate publicly stated philosophies with private actions. obviously they're not totally separate and unrelated, but it's a little bit of a leap of logic to get to your glib interpretation.

I sb'd miles davis just to be safe tho

i should really try and find period miles crit. i always sorta assume that white critics kinda loved and fed off of miles as badass, but i could be making that up. i forget. i haven't read any 50's, 60's, 70's miles journalism in years. i read liner-notes a lot. i should probably pick up a book every now and then.

you honestly think "the jury is out" on whether tyler actually hates gay people?

i do. i've said all kinds of stupid shit and held all sorts of unfortunate attitudes over the course of my life. tyler's absorbed his culture's casual homophobia, but that doesn't necessarily make him a committed, down-deep homophobe himself. time will tell on that score.

yeah, i'm on that side of the argument too, contenderi

wait now you're both saying exactly what I said, that "the jury is out"!

i'm saying its as possible as anything but highly fucking unlikely

http://www.jockweb.com/pacino.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2418/1602030068_2e68d2dd38.jpg

trying to prove whether he 'is' or 'is not' a homophobe is beside the point. its like trying to find a person who will admit to being racist. the point is, hes fine using language that creates an atmosphere inhospitable to lots of people

caramanica:
later he tossed a half-full Wendy’s Frosty from the passenger seat of Ms. Clancy’s Porsche S.U.V. at a group of respectably dressed people lined up near the Grove mall.

y'know, i'm sorta seriously thinking i don't care how much detail this guy puts in his music.

i'm saying its as possible as anything but highly fucking unlikely

yeah I guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree here. the possibility that a guy who calls people "faggot" when he's angry might be maybe homophobic doesn't seem like a super tough case to make, ymmv I guess

if miles doesnt count bcuz he doesnt have legions of followers then contenerizer's point falls apart anyway because the only artist we can come up with who manages to make tyler look good is the hitler of music

― D40 (D-40), Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:15 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark

this makes no sense. miles doesn't count because he wasn't "the hiter of music" in any sense. varg kinda-sorta is, or at least is one of the most visible and influential of a number of little hitlers. for this he deserves a special sort of condemnation that davis & tyler just don't.

i'm not sure that we need to try to "make tyler look good, but what he's saying is hardly uniquely depraved: whitehouse, brainbombs, cannibal corpse and a million goregrind acts, horrorcore precedents, punk shit like the tar babies/mean red spiders, etc. some of that gets plenty of critical respect in its niche. and eminem, again again again.

though it opens a much larger can of worms, we might reasonably ask how tyler's schtick is any worse than the apparently sincere lionization of murderous thugs in other corners of modern pop. or the insanely virulent and violent homophobia in dancehall.

"hes fine using language that creates an atmosphere inhospitable to lots of people"

i've pointed this out before, rap music, in general, is an atmosphere inhospitable to lots of people. like, all rap music. its popular, but its also hated in a way that very few genres are.

i forget why i felt the need to point that out though.

because he drops f-bombs every other sentence and 'murderous thugs' dont?

it's been a long day.

oh man, plz to examples of 'murderous thugs'

how do i shot murderous thugs

like, the vibe of MOP's music doesn't, for the most part, exclude huge populations from participating in it except by aesthetic maneuvers, while tyler at the outset excludes huge swathes of people, and id feel like an asshole sitting in a car w/ a girl listening to a rapper rap about raping chicks ('as a joke')

the point is, hes fine using language that creates an atmosphere inhospitable to lots of people

― D40 (D-40), Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:36 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

if that's really the standard, we're gonna have to throw and AWFUL lot of contemporary rap music in the "unacceptable" bin with tyler

ok?

no one i listen to drops as many fbombs or references to raping as tyler, though, so im fairly comfortable with my decisions

he also calls his fans faggots and calls the rest of odd future faggots. he uses the word faggot a lot, but it's definitely not always angry. whether that changes anything is up for debate, i guess.

i'd feel pretty self-conscious about listening to M.O.P. in front of a kidnapping victim

i'd rather dude called me anything than threw a frosty at me quite frankly
that shit stains respectable clothing

oh man, plz to examples of 'murderous thugs'

you're really gonna suggest that no pop artist has ever capitalized on the romance of crime, even murder? that no one has ever promoted the idea that they're a bad man who does bad things, and that there's something impressive about that? come the fuck on.

i'd feel pretty self-conscious about listening to M.O.P. in front of a kidnapping victim

― contenderoni (some dude), Thursday, May 12, 2011 1:43 AM (59 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol

btw, get one 4chan, as tyler clearly has and submerse yourself in that world of newfags and oldfags and trollfags and you can get a sense of how it must seem weird to him that people find this objectionable

you're really gonna suggest that no pop artist has ever capitalized on the romance of crime, even murder? that no one has ever promoted the idea that they're a bad man who does bad things, and that there's something impressive about that? come the fuck on.

― always have time for the crystalline entity (contenderizer), Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:44 PM (30 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah its so bad and terrible and not totally fucking awesome that people do that

this sopranos show is just like listening to Beenie Man say he wants to exterminate the gays

yeah its so bad and terrible and not totally fucking awesome that people do that

surely debatable on a moral level, though we've collectively decided to be okay with it (me too! shit IS awesome!)

you're really gonna suggest that no pop artist has ever capitalized on the romance of crime, even murder? that no one has ever promoted the idea that they're a bad man who does bad things, and that there's something impressive about that? come the fuck on.

― always have time for the crystalline entity (contenderizer), Thursday, May 12, 2011 1:44 AM (55 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i like westerns that have gunfights & gun battles
but id be a bit put off if there was a graphic rape scene & it would prob make me very uncomfortable
not saying it couldnt be done to make a point, but tyler isnt sergio leone or ennio morricone

xp thats' not apologizing for tyler or justifying anything; it's just cromagnon online youth culture fucking with words and he happens to be part of it
some future president is almost certainly drawing dicks on some passed out guy's face now
2012 can't get here fast enough
http://urbanmecca.net/news/wp-content/uploads/sanfordson_history.jpg