ODD FUTURE WOLF GANG KILL THEM ALL

whiney chill for christ's sake we're having a fun discussion here not sniping all aggro, maybe listen to less tyler the creator or something

chicken/egg haha

since the burzum thing seems to have legs...

as far as i know, burzum's music contains zero offensive content---all that is extracurricular. which is why its easier for me personally to rationalize listening to dude's records. with OF (and countless other 'controversial' or 'problematic' artists) the objectionable stuff is front and center

which, perversely, makes it easier for me to accommodate. relative to the likes of burzum, OF's transgressions seem superficial and basically meaningless, like scenes in a gross-out horror movie. that's not to give them a pass, but varg's philosophies are presented in all seriousness and have evident real-world consequences and followers. this makes it MUCH harder for me to give any kind of burzum support a pass - at least in the present moment, while the artist is still alive and his legacy up for grabs.

like if tyler was in jail for domestic violence and expressing his theories on rape as the ultimate expression of oppressed masculinity, i'm sure i'd feel very differently about his art. calling jim goad...

give him a few years

ice cold

please don't call jim goad.

i can't believe i used to watch richard kern videos. jeez, the follies of youth. so lame. did have a thing for lung leg though...

i'm just fucking around. there's a kid in my math class who basically lives and breathes OFWGKTA (copies tyler's outfits, says "swag" 200x per hour) and i'd be shocked if he raped anybody, ever. he's a mama's boy!

i'd still read an old issue of film threat though.

dude they're all mama's boys

should i specify that he's also a black suburban teenager or is that NAGL

i can't believe i used to watch richard kern videos... did have a thing for lung leg though

me too! sewing circle kinda did me in tho

how has this not been posted in this thread yet
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/a8ac764340/louie-s-poker-scene

privileged white hipsters turning burzum into TOTALLY RAD/TOTALLY HILARIOUS cult figure is one of the saddest stories of the Vice Magazine generation. When I was a kid in the 90s, record stores refused to carry Skrewdriver records and stocked Fishbone FUCK RACISM t-shirts

fwiw, a couple years ago i was comfortably down w burzum "as music," comfortably divorced from its real world context. i wasn't into the rad/hilarious aspect of black metal, but i'd long been a fan of the cheap, evil, gothpunk buzz of those early albums (darkthrone too). was the criticism of folks like you and especially aero that made me rethink this.

which, perversely, makes it easier for me to accommodate. relative to the likes of burzum, OF's transgressions seem superficial and basically meaningless, like scenes in a gross-out horror movie. that's not to give them a pass, but varg's philosophies are presented in all seriousness and have evident real-world consequences and followers. this makes it MUCH harder for me to give any kind of burzum support a pass - at least in the present moment, while the artist is still alive and his legacy up for grabs.

like if tyler was in jail for domestic violence and expressing his theories on rape as the ultimate expression of oppressed masculinity, i'm sure i'd feel very differently about his art. calling jim goad...

― always have time for the crystalline entity (contenderizer), Thursday, May 12, 2011 12:33 AM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

replace 'burzum' with known wife beater miles davis to show how ridiculous this logic is

or james brown or r kelly or ike turner or

miles davis's philosophies about beating women are presented in all seriousness and have evident real-world consequences and followers?

well ike's and r's kinda are tbf
and then there's this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwYzGWjTGdM
what i'm gon do
i'm gonna go downtown to the hardware sto
and buy myself a double bladed axe handle
come back
square off
and believe me her soul better belong to the good lord
because her HAID gonna belong to me

it sounds silly but read literally .... yes? xp

maybe not followers but otherwise

miles davis's philosophies about beating women are presented in all seriousness and have evident real-world consequences and followers?

― contenderoni (some dude), Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:55 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i knew i didn't understand jazz

thread needed forks writing "sto"

it's a direct quote

lol hey dudes who only know varg from ilm godwinism you guys realize this is a dude who publishes essays about the evils of racemixing right?

i real the Miles autobio cover to cover and don't remember a chapter about why and how to choke a bitch

replace 'burzum' with known wife beater miles davis to show how ridiculous this logic is

― D40 (D-40), Wednesday, May 11, 2011 5:53 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

unfair, and some dude OTM. if miles davis was the symbolic figurehead of an international movement of hardcore, often violent misogynists, and if buying his records put money in the pockets of such people, and cred in their bank...

then fuck yeah, i'd take a hard stance against him and his music. the comparison you're making doesn't hold water.

i do now!

xp

real=read

aerosmith: that would be a no. sounds like a great dinner party guest.

miles davis's philosophies about beating women are presented in all seriousness and have evident real-world consequences and followers?

It was real consequence for Betty Davis and Cicely Tyson who were scared shit of him.

^what he said
waaaaaaay off topic now but this article left me with such mixed emotions this morning
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/us/11nazi.html

Davis's music isn't an attempt to frame an ideology of misogyny. varg's music, on the other hand, is a nationalistic expression. tyler's lyrics - the jury's out; people like to invoke "persona," but his use of homophobic language IRL puts that defense into question

imo

miles davis's philosophies about beating women are presented in all seriousness and have evident real-world consequences and followers?

It was real consequence for Betty Davis and Cicely Tyson who were scared shit of him.

― Trying to Find Every Nicole Wray Song Is A Bitch (lilsoulbrother), Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:03 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

philosophies are not actions

aero, you honestly think "the jury is out" on whether tyler actually hates gay people?

that's not what he said "the jury's out" on fyi

that his music is attempt to frame an ideology of homophobia?

which is an very grad school way of saying "hates gay people"

Davis's music isn't an attempt to frame an ideology of misogyny. varg's music, on the other hand, is a nationalistic expression. tyler's lyrics - the jury's out; people like to invoke "persona," but his use of homophobic language IRL puts that defense into question

imo

― Steven Tyler the Creator (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, May 12, 2011 1:06 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

in that case contenderizer's entire argument is wrong; i was making mine on contenderizer's assertion that varg's music was independent of his actions outside of it

philosophies are not actions

― contenderoni (some dude), Thursday, May 12, 2011 1:08 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

but miles' philosophies had real world consequences ... regardless? i cant see that hair if you slice it any thinner

regardless, if miles doesnt count bcuz he doesnt have legions of followers then contenerizer's point falls apart anyway because the only artist we can come up with who manages to make tyler look good is the hitler of music

whether his use of rape fantasy & hate speech is a literary project (hardly unprecedented) or self-expression. the latter possibility at least insofar as homophobia is concerned is kinda strongly suggested by his use of "faggot" as an IRL insult toward interviewers he doesn't like.

philosophies are not actions

I'm not understanding what you are trying to say? I'm not saying people should ban Miles Davis (I'm a fan myself), but it will be stupid to think his "philosophy" didn't have real world consequences for some people. Even if you don't know those people and they are famous. Plus, domestic abuse is obviously a real problem. Davis's music thankfully didn't reflect that philosophy.

in that case contenderizer's entire argument is wrong; i was making mine on contenderizer's assertion that varg's music was independent of his actions outside of it

lots of metal dudes will argue that because what they're engaging in Varg's music isn't his ideology (this position also works vis-a-vis Wagner) but the groove, the sound. That Varg is on record as trying to not make music that resembles, quoting Varg here "negro culture," seems to me inseparable from the music he makes. I feel the same about Wagner and his desire to rid his music of Jewish elements. metal d00ds of conscience can differ on this question and still thrash together tho.

lilsoulbrother, the sentence had a particular meaning and you're twisting around words to equate publicly stated philosophies with private actions. obviously they're not totally separate and unrelated, but it's a little bit of a leap of logic to get to your glib interpretation.

I sb'd miles davis just to be safe tho

i should really try and find period miles crit. i always sorta assume that white critics kinda loved and fed off of miles as badass, but i could be making that up. i forget. i haven't read any 50's, 60's, 70's miles journalism in years. i read liner-notes a lot. i should probably pick up a book every now and then.

you honestly think "the jury is out" on whether tyler actually hates gay people?

i do. i've said all kinds of stupid shit and held all sorts of unfortunate attitudes over the course of my life. tyler's absorbed his culture's casual homophobia, but that doesn't necessarily make him a committed, down-deep homophobe himself. time will tell on that score.

yeah, i'm on that side of the argument too, contenderi

wait now you're both saying exactly what I said, that "the jury is out"!

i'm saying its as possible as anything but highly fucking unlikely