ODD FUTURE WOLF GANG KILL THEM ALL

If you've said dumb shit because you were young, ignorant and/or trying get a rise out of people, you can usually recognize when someone is doing likewise, or might be quicker to assume that's the case. I think rap gets more sympathy/pondering in regards to this more than most genres beats the lyrics are clearer and the jokes are better, on top of the condescending stuff already mentioned.

Well, we probably covered this on that other thread re: Wagner, but I think I approach it like other pieces of art. I mean, I enjoy reading the George R.R. Martin and Robert Jordan fantasy books, but I'm often horrified in regards to his treatment of female characters and sex in general. So I kind of mentally gloss over those bits and focus on the parts I do enjoy. Is that the best approach? Probably not.

I was just complaining about the lack of subwoofer action in tristan und isolde like, yesterday

If you've said dumb shit because you were young, ignorant and/or trying get a rise out of people, you can usually recognize when someone is doing likewise, or might be quicker to assume that's the case

...and also quicker to fetishise it. thought one of the most impt points nitsuh made in his piece was:

And the music world always defers to that angry-teenage-boy thing — it keeps telling that demographic they're more vital and important than everyone else. This is precisely what that demographic already believes and likes to hear confirmed.

this is what i object to far more than just tyler saying faggot or whatever, tbh. strikes me as remarkably uncritical and unself-aware on the music world's part.

totally, and I definitely didn't mean to suggest that it was good.

mommy said I was special, she hung my raps on the refrigerator

the music world always defers to that angry-teenage-boy thing — it keeps telling that demographic they're more vital and important than everyone else. This is precisely what that demographic already believes and likes to hear confirmed.

- n.a.

this is what i object to far more than just tyler saying faggot or whatever, tbh. strikes me as remarkably uncritical and unself-aware on the music world's part.

- lex

would say that the pop world often defers to "authentic" expressions of teenage (youthful) anything. so anger yes, and boyness yes, but also idealistic romance and hormonal lust, the novelty of emotion and girlness in countless forms. not sure it's so uncritical or unself-aware, though. naive teen energy and enthusiasm are the engines of pop, more or less.

to digress, while you're here lex, ta very much for your first quarterly report. Find that I'm shockingly up to date in the albums department but new to about 80% of your tracks choices. Working my way through now.

link?!

^^

on ze tumblr

http://alexmacpherson.tumblr.com/post/5157484245/q1-report-2011-part-two-tracks
http://alexmacpherson.tumblr.com/post/5068549266/q1-report-2011-part-one-albums

contenderizer, i think expressions of female adolescence tend to sell records, but rarely get taken seriously (by either critics or in the wider culture), whereas expressions of male adolescence sometimes sell (see: action blockbusters) and sometimes don't, but if not always taken as seriously as OF, definitely aren't routinely dismissed or denigrated in the way that, say, hilary duff would have been.

i think expressions of female adolescence tend to sell records, but rarely get taken seriously (by either critics or in the wider culture), whereas expressions of male adolescence sometimes sell (see: action blockbusters) and sometimes don't, but if not always taken as seriously as OF, definitely aren't routinely dismissed or denigrated in the way that, say, hilary duff would have been.

okay, that's fair. we do seem to take "boy stuff" MUCH more seriously as a culture (in america, anyway). simple example = "chick flick", a term of sneering derogation when there's no comparable term for disagreeably male-oriented films.

also, transgression (often a product of anger) is often celebrated by critics. suspect that if hillary duff's appeal were as dependent on shock value as OF's, she'd get a lot more critical attention/respect. then again, she probably wouldn't be anywhere near as popular.

well exactly, shock value is prized more in boys, though - when a boy transgresses, as nitsuh says he's often rewarded for it. when a girl transgresses, esp sexually (and for girls this can mean both acting sexually and acting non-sexually) she'll probably receive more opprobrium for it than someone like tyler will ever see in his life.

...and female anger isn't really taken that seriously. look how often artists like sinéad o'connor/courtney love/tori amos/fiona apple are dismissed as crazy

think we're living in different worlds here... how exactly did madonna and her thousand children pay for their sexual transgressions?

plenty of reward in women breaking down social and sexual boundaries, if it's done right

and by "right" I mean with a sense of style

and I can't believe courtney love was branded crazy

what an unfair world we live in

yeah that's kind of bullshit

female sexual transgression in pop music is rewarded if you can turn yourself into a substitue for gay men

when a girl transgresses, esp sexually (and for girls this can mean both acting sexually and acting non-sexually) she'll probably receive more opprobrium for it than someone like tyler will ever see in his life.

...and female anger isn't really taken that seriously. look how often artists like sinéad o'connor/courtney love/tori amos/fiona apple are dismissed as crazy

― lex pretend, Wednesday, May 11, 2011 2:18 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark

i get where you're coming from, but this is wildly overstated, imo. to the point where you're defeating your own thesis. would say that all of the women you cited got LOTS of critical love and popular attention, at least in their "moment", and that none of them have been taken so sternly to task by pundits for lyrical content as tyler (for good reason). and lots of female artist have been celebrated for their transgressive stances and ideas, patti smith to courtney love and beyond.

private/public lives are another matter, and eccentric male musicians are often dismissed as crazy, too...

"i mean, how do you genuinely like something while also being repulsed by parts of it?"

i'm a horror fan. and stuff can gross me out AND i can appreciate it. i don't always want to see/hear stuff that makes me feel comfortable.

let's remember lex also got very mad on behalf of white girls upthread who people apparently weren't as sympathetic toward for deadbeat dad issues than w/ tyler

to be honest though odd future doesn't make me uncomfortable. i can definitely see why they would make other people uncomfortable though. big time. especially women. but not just women. all kinds of peoples would hate them if they heard them!

love teairra marí song lex posted, sad i'd never heard it before :(

also, while we're talking lex, everybody oughtta download the angel haze mixtape he keeps talking about, it's great

plenty of reward in women breaking down social and sexual boundaries, if it's done right

― don't judge a book by its jpg (Edward III), Wednesday, May 11, 2011 5:19 PM (36 minutes ago)

and by "right" I mean with a sense of style

― don't judge a book by its jpg (Edward III), Wednesday, May 11, 2011 5:19 PM (35 minutes ago)

um doesn't "sense of style" mean "titillating dudes in a non-boundary-breaking-at-all way"

why am i even wading into this thread, but JESUS CHRIST

"i mean, how do you genuinely like something while also being repulsed by parts of it?"

i'm a horror fan. and stuff can gross me out AND i can appreciate it. i don't always want to see/hear stuff that makes me feel comfortable.

― scott seward, Wednesday, May 11, 2011 2:43 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark

Burzum

oh here we go

lol

Tyler "Burzum" Wagner

nah i don't want to have an oppression-off but i mean i kind of can't believe that the illusion of equal opportunity boundary-busting in pop culture still exists. did we learn nothing from the "'slut' scrawled on stomach to 'daddy's girl' printed on cutoff baby doll tees" progression?

also hi everybody!

Hi there!

'Bitch Suck Svarte Troner feat Varg Vikernes'

odd story grand mother blow them all

― haute couture wolf gang frill them all (samosa gibreel), Monday, November 15, 2010 8:52 PM (5 months ago) Bookmark

still love this

hi, maura!

i kind of can't believe that the illusion of equal opportunity boundary-busting in pop culture still exists.

don't think it does. i was arguing only against the way lex presented his argument, not its essential merit.

hi maura

fuck fuck fuck fuck the longgoing and totally stupid and totally offtm analogy that compares an UNREPENTANT MURDERER AND ACTIVE WHITE SUPREMICIST with a teenager making rape jokes. Like, come on.

lol sorry

love u, lpz

<3 back at ya.

i feel like this is kind of approaching a point where any attempt to actually discuss the content of 'goblin' is going to seem a bit irrelevant, and i only got around to listening to it today

it's er it's pretty long, is what it is

what is with critics' burning desire to justify this dude's stuff -- its like theyre worried if they dare to say something against it the entire critical apparatus will disintegrate or they'll be consigned as contrarian trying-to-hards

― D40 (D-40), Wednesday, May 11, 2011 3:40 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

too not to

― D40 (D-40), Wednesday, May 11, 2011 3:40 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

this is a really disingenuous thing to say just fyi

also lex the guy from XL gets off on it cuz it makes him a profit

anyway what rich's post said is what a few of us (including me) said months ago about his use of 'faggot'

the funny thing to me is that either one of two things are going to happen (assuming that ppl are still paying attention to tyler/OF in 5 years): he's gonna grow up and continue saying faggot incessantly and a lot of critics are going to turn on him or he's gonna realize that it's ridiculous/stupid (or worse) and everyone gets to say "told ya so" -- so he's pretty much in a lose-lose situation

Some one do a cntrl F and see how many times we said "disingenuous" in this thread

not really, the beasties handled it well and people seemed to respond to it well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvRc7pwnt0U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn7IPP2bc5c

some dude wrote this on thread ILM'S TOP 77 ALBUMS of 2010 on board I Love Music on Feb 2, 2011

sometimes i feel like Burzum exists purely to be used as an example or conversation point in ILM threads

ha

yeah dude have you heard that shit? it's not for listening