ODD FUTURE WOLF GANG KILL THEM ALL

word, fair enough, i don't really have anything i'd like to internet argue about here. just saying that i think OF serves a purpose, prolly the same way those other cats you mentioned do.

nht boyz arent on the cover of billboard

no, but that doesn't make them any more valid than artists who are. i love lots of entirely marginal music, much more marginal than nht boyz or w/e, but i don't have a chip on my shoulder abt its importance relative to shit that does get the pitchfork seal of approval. it's not the championing of worthy underdogs i object to - that part is cool as hell - it's the condescension that goes w it.

i do think there's something goofy about the way calling back to a certain style of millenial indie rap is more acceptable for the broader critical world than travis porter's amalgamation of the past 5 years of southern rap or nht boyz' gangster/snap rediscovery of 80s hip hop

i mean, why? i'm cool with upping what you love, but like i said, get grossed out by the combativeness of this stance. like other people are somehow goofy for not appreciating the less obvious shit you dig, wtf?

neat rhetorical trick where it becomes about me favoring something 'less obvious' as if this is a hipper-than-thou pose

its not goofy that they appreciate it, whats goofy is that they try to maintain some kind of mythic idea of 'innovation' that somehow eludes the other artists we're talking about

like, they feel their appreciation must be justified by some kind of historical righteousness that is at odds w/ the actual history of what is going on in music

neat rhetorical trick where it becomes about me favoring something 'less obvious' as if this is a hipper-than-thou pose

okay, i guess that's what i'm saying, that you do sometimes cop a hipper-than-thou pose in making the case for your shit. but having said that, i'm not convinced it's such a bad thing. i mean, the whole point of pushing a critical opinion is to get heard, to make some space for what you think and care about, and on that level, whatever works, works. if it weren't for you (and others here), i wouldn't have heard a lot of my favorite shit.

although that might be my rhetoric at times its unrelated to my argument here, which is about how certain values are celebrated over others for reasons related a whole bunch to issues of class race gender etc but whatever

whats goofy is that they try to maintain some kind of mythic idea of 'innovation' that somehow eludes the other artists we're talking about

that's fair, and it IS weird how certain artists are granted the holy seal of critical "importance" (of any sort, whether granted by means of supposed innovation, authenticity, intelligence, beauty or w/e) while others are denied. the creation of these pop narratives has more to do with social magic than with the presence of any underlying quality. and since it IS a product of social magic, more power to those who try to push it this way or that. maybe all i'm doing is defending apathy, i dunno.

my argument here, which is about how certain values are celebrated over others for reasons related a whole bunch to issues of class race gender etc but whatever

okay, if that's the subtext of your argument here, then you're approaching very, uh ... subtly. which is undoubtedly for the best, this being ILM, so carry on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH2_HW7HVvE

deej basically otm. OF are pretty fresh when considered in the context of underground/backpacker/experimental rap (which has been kind of a dead sub-genre for a while now) and their music def. seems to resonate with ppl that were into that stuff 10 years ago (me included). when considered in the context as rap as a whole right now this stuff isn't particularly out there

yeah, no, "out there" is the last phrase i'd use to make the case. made my dumb joke about goblin being neither odd nor futuristic a couple hundred posts back...

"i've admittedly only heard a track or two from each of the above groups but OF sounds way further removed from typical 'hip hop' than either of them imo"

yeah i think this is what makes them diff to say a de la or even maybe an anti pop consortium and ill bill etc - these guys sound a distance from straight rap. even prince paul when doing his humourous stuff did it from inside the culture. OF seem to know they dont quite belong. no doubt another reason rock guys seem to like them so much.

but i guess my main point is that i'd never heard a record that sounded the slightest bit like rolling papers the first time i heard it

rolling papers struck me immediately as someone splitting the difference b/w 'madvillainy' & wiz's 'kush & orange juice'. i think you're overselling it a bit.

listening to break it in, work out the wrinkles, still sounding great, hell of a lot better than the 192 rip i've been living with. only complaint i have at this point is that the flagship release comes from tyler himself, not from OFWGKTA. since this is gonna wind up introducing OF to a bunch of new fans, it might have been nice/smart to lead with a more colorful, varied and (come on) odd intro release.

― always have time for the crystalline entity (contenderizer), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 04:25 (8 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

No Earl on the first Odd Future record != Barely any Masta Killa or U-God

Earl = ODB

Wrong again

maybe goblin is like gzas first album on cold chillin then

Maybe stop comparing everything to fukkin wu tang

and i can say this about travis porter even more easily. your rhetoric here is concerned with tamping down on those who suggest that the current state of crit is concerned only with kingmaking artists w/in a certain milieu, afterwards coming up with 'innovative' justifications; you're simply trying to suggest that 'sometimes artists are overlooked'. the real state of things is, usually artists are overrated; jenkinson is 'innovative' for creating his own sound & so is basically any of 100 rappers i can think of from last year. freddie gibbs for exampel.

holy shit D-40 ate his wheaties this morning! also had no idea you repped for aes

scott p trolling whiney hard but will he take the bait??? film at eleven

His place in the indie music landscape is oddly most reminiscent of Salem, another gothic, often-derided group beloved by a core of committed young listeners but shrugged off by those with a more developed perspective.

its obv theyre patterning themselves on wu-tang in some way though (or just another big crew), taking the same kind of approach to signing multiple record deals, having full creative control etc etc. or maybe thats just so ingrained in every hip hop artists approach to record deal making since that you dont even have to remember what the wu did to do it the same way.

*they're just another big crew

I was just being flippant fwiw.

how was that an 8.0 review? Read more like a 6.0.

its ok, they are basically like wu-tang again, if wu-tang was more like d12

yes but the internet

I think Earl is more like Hubert Selby Jr.

His place in the indie music landscape is oddly most reminiscent of Salem, another gothic, often-derided group beloved by a core of committed young listeners but shrugged off by those with a more developed perspective.

i love odd future, hate salem, and this is still totally on the mark

the 8.0 is probably p4k's way of being ambiguous about what they thought about it. kind of like giving it bnm without actually doing that. 6.0 would draw too much attention, and hurt their 'credibility' after they've hyped OF so much.

Love the nu-RS nature to the rating politics there.

I just wish Ryan S would pull more Jann moves and drop random 10.0 reviews on old faves

is Walt Mink still going? they could have a Goddess In The Doorway moment.

lol @ the idea of rating politics

Yeah, let's not do this whole thing again

anyway I didn't realize Salem had such a young fanbase

i posted this on the goon thread i'm kinda starting to love death grips

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Orlbo9WkZ2E

I'm glad more ppl are warming up to goblin itt, felt like I was consoling a bunch of kids who didn't like their xmas presents back there. the album does waver between terrible emo nobody-understands-me skits and strong material, sometimes within the same song. wish there were more tracks like "analog" to balance out tyler's monomania.

don't see much connection between company flow/anti-pop consortium and OF stuff, besides being off-center rap music, but that's like saying butthole surfers and slipknot are both off-center rock music, i.e. not saying much at all.

tyler's got a very definite sound + sensibility, and it's informed as much by video game and cartoon music as it is by hip hop. what he really reminds me of is early 8bit ADHD bogdan raczynski stuff, soundtracks for imaginary rainbow ninja fights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1ALy0HnHCY

aw man <3 death grips

also lol @ dude named death grips wearing his seatbelt

i mean the elephant in the room with tyler's production is neptunes, i think someone upthread said he used to post to a neptunes messageboard

i wonder if tyler likes sid roams

is Walt Mink still going? they could have a Goddess In The Doorway moment.

YOU ARE A GOLDEN GOD

The anti pop comparisons were just about the production

Also lots of producers are taking from video game music,i interviewed jeffro awhile back and he talked about movie and video game soundtracks more than rap beats (he did some nht beats too btw)

yeah neptunes is otm. he sounds like hes been listening to hall hath no fury quite a bit.

I think deej is def otm about this stuff having roots in 90s indie rap—especially Wordsound stuff like Sensational, mushier Madlib and JohnnyFromTheHospitul-era CoFlow. HOWEVER, I think the way Tyler puts it together is his own animal—pretty much no samples or scratching, nostalgic synths he cops from contemporary indie rock, that Dilla/Doom-style chopping he does with with his snares, lots of pitched-down/screwed up.

All these things have their antecedents, but it's a little disingenuous to say that together they don't make up something a little of new and different. And although Travis Porter's Atlanta06-meets-Bay07 amalgem is unique in its own way too, his sounds and compression levels definitely feel more in line with something that--surface level--could be on BET.

and I love Travis and OF btw

Tyler's bete noire Brandun DeShay is fond of a nice video game sample. See Hodgy Beats "Memorex Cds" and Danny Brown's "Lincoln Continental" from this year.

yeah neptunes is otm. he sounds like hes been listening to hall hath no fury quite a bit.

― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:32 AM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah that's the thing, him being a Neptunes stan AND so young means he's probably more influenced by their shitty later beats than their actual 2000-2002 peak

Death Grips (that posted video in particular) kinda reminds me of Antipop Consortium more than Tyler does. But I haven't listened to Arrhythmia in fucking years, so what I remember vs. what's actually on the CD is debatable. Some of the other DG stuff I've heard reminds me of New Kingdom a little, but about 10% as good.