ODD FUTURE WOLF GANG KILL THEM ALL

dont for one second think that odd future is any more innovative than, say, nht boyz, or travis porter

me neither, though i'm more invested in OF and hadn't heard nht boyz til today

dude get the mixtape from last year and stop posting long boring posts

yeah, did that (and quiet, you)

i've admittedly only heard a track or two from each of the above groups but OF sounds way further removed from typical 'hip hop' than either of them imo -- which might not nec. make them innovative by default, but when i heard the first OF stuff i heard (domo) it sounded SO different; i don't think either of the groups deej mentioned are nearly as fresh, regardless of how good or non-typical they might be. i should mention that most of what makes OF so appealing to me personally is the production, i'm not really commenting on the emcee-ing here. OF to me is pioneering their own aesthetic entirely, whereas a lot of even the best producers that i listen to and enjoy are not so unique that i can't imagine anyone else coming up w/ the stuff they come up w/. obv. OF isn't the only hip hop group to ever do this, but they've done it on such a scale in such a short period of time that i think that's what grabs people right away, the fact that they sound more like a band with a very identifiable style rather than producer x + MC y

wait, how is 'fresh' = 'removed from hip hop'

this is fresh to ppl who didn't fuck with fondle em & anti pop consortium in the late 90s / early 00s

this shit isnt far removed from el-p's less groove oriented beats either, canox etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e84LOYFbf3o

FRESH for '02 ... you SUCKAAAAZ

i don't see any real commonality between antipop and odd future, downtempo vibe and basic antipopness aside

i'll gladly admit to not having listened to probably 1/8th of the hip hop you have, but i guess my main point is that i'd never heard a record that sounded the slightest bit like rolling papers the first time i heard it -- and while that tape isn't my fav. OF release, just the first i heard, it inspired me musically in a way most hip hop doesn't, even though i love the stuff. i'd imagine part of the reason for their popularity other than the hilarious rape jokes is that other people have had this reaction?

not trying to get into a who knows more about hip hop thing here, you win. but i have listened to el-p and stuff like that, sure, and just because the previous generation of backpacker dudes were also doing something different doesn't mean OF isn't.

plus, you know, ten years is a long time

i'll gladly admit to not having listened to probably 1/8th of the hip hop you have, but i guess my main point is that i'd never heard a record that sounded the slightest bit like rolling papers the first time i heard it -- and while that tape isn't my fav. OF release, just the first i heard, it inspired me musically in a way most hip hop doesn't, even though i love the stuff. i'd imagine part of the reason for their popularity other than the hilarious rape jokes is that other people have had this reaction?

not trying to get into a who knows more about hip hop thing here, you win. but i have listened to el-p and stuff like that, sure, and just because the previous generation of backpacker dudes were also doing something different doesn't mean OF isn't.

― sleepingbag, Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:50 AM (11 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i think OF is doing something 'different,' i just think its a lot more marginal than you do, and that the values you & others who its resonating with bring to bear on this music are just *different* from those who might prefer nht or travis porter, & certainly arent any more correct or insightful

nor less so, and that's the point

im not trying to brag about knowing stuff here at all ... i dont think there's anything wrong w/ liking odd future for that production style, although it doesnt resonate particularly with me. i do think there's something goofy about the way calling back to a certain style of millenial indie rap is more acceptable for the broader critical world than travis porter's amalgamation of the past 5 years of southern rap or nht boyz' gangster/snap rediscovery of 80s hip hop

nor less so, and that's the point

― always have time for the crystalline entity (contenderizer), Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:52 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

how is that the point? nht boyz arent on the cover of billboard

im going to see aesop rock next week btw -- still like him a lot more than this stuff

word, fair enough, i don't really have anything i'd like to internet argue about here. just saying that i think OF serves a purpose, prolly the same way those other cats you mentioned do.

nht boyz arent on the cover of billboard

no, but that doesn't make them any more valid than artists who are. i love lots of entirely marginal music, much more marginal than nht boyz or w/e, but i don't have a chip on my shoulder abt its importance relative to shit that does get the pitchfork seal of approval. it's not the championing of worthy underdogs i object to - that part is cool as hell - it's the condescension that goes w it.

i do think there's something goofy about the way calling back to a certain style of millenial indie rap is more acceptable for the broader critical world than travis porter's amalgamation of the past 5 years of southern rap or nht boyz' gangster/snap rediscovery of 80s hip hop

i mean, why? i'm cool with upping what you love, but like i said, get grossed out by the combativeness of this stance. like other people are somehow goofy for not appreciating the less obvious shit you dig, wtf?

neat rhetorical trick where it becomes about me favoring something 'less obvious' as if this is a hipper-than-thou pose

its not goofy that they appreciate it, whats goofy is that they try to maintain some kind of mythic idea of 'innovation' that somehow eludes the other artists we're talking about

like, they feel their appreciation must be justified by some kind of historical righteousness that is at odds w/ the actual history of what is going on in music

neat rhetorical trick where it becomes about me favoring something 'less obvious' as if this is a hipper-than-thou pose

okay, i guess that's what i'm saying, that you do sometimes cop a hipper-than-thou pose in making the case for your shit. but having said that, i'm not convinced it's such a bad thing. i mean, the whole point of pushing a critical opinion is to get heard, to make some space for what you think and care about, and on that level, whatever works, works. if it weren't for you (and others here), i wouldn't have heard a lot of my favorite shit.

although that might be my rhetoric at times its unrelated to my argument here, which is about how certain values are celebrated over others for reasons related a whole bunch to issues of class race gender etc but whatever

whats goofy is that they try to maintain some kind of mythic idea of 'innovation' that somehow eludes the other artists we're talking about

that's fair, and it IS weird how certain artists are granted the holy seal of critical "importance" (of any sort, whether granted by means of supposed innovation, authenticity, intelligence, beauty or w/e) while others are denied. the creation of these pop narratives has more to do with social magic than with the presence of any underlying quality. and since it IS a product of social magic, more power to those who try to push it this way or that. maybe all i'm doing is defending apathy, i dunno.

my argument here, which is about how certain values are celebrated over others for reasons related a whole bunch to issues of class race gender etc but whatever

okay, if that's the subtext of your argument here, then you're approaching very, uh ... subtly. which is undoubtedly for the best, this being ILM, so carry on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH2_HW7HVvE

deej basically otm. OF are pretty fresh when considered in the context of underground/backpacker/experimental rap (which has been kind of a dead sub-genre for a while now) and their music def. seems to resonate with ppl that were into that stuff 10 years ago (me included). when considered in the context as rap as a whole right now this stuff isn't particularly out there

yeah, no, "out there" is the last phrase i'd use to make the case. made my dumb joke about goblin being neither odd nor futuristic a couple hundred posts back...

"i've admittedly only heard a track or two from each of the above groups but OF sounds way further removed from typical 'hip hop' than either of them imo"

yeah i think this is what makes them diff to say a de la or even maybe an anti pop consortium and ill bill etc - these guys sound a distance from straight rap. even prince paul when doing his humourous stuff did it from inside the culture. OF seem to know they dont quite belong. no doubt another reason rock guys seem to like them so much.

but i guess my main point is that i'd never heard a record that sounded the slightest bit like rolling papers the first time i heard it

rolling papers struck me immediately as someone splitting the difference b/w 'madvillainy' & wiz's 'kush & orange juice'. i think you're overselling it a bit.

listening to break it in, work out the wrinkles, still sounding great, hell of a lot better than the 192 rip i've been living with. only complaint i have at this point is that the flagship release comes from tyler himself, not from OFWGKTA. since this is gonna wind up introducing OF to a bunch of new fans, it might have been nice/smart to lead with a more colorful, varied and (come on) odd intro release.

― always have time for the crystalline entity (contenderizer), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 04:25 (8 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

No Earl on the first Odd Future record != Barely any Masta Killa or U-God

Earl = ODB

Wrong again

maybe goblin is like gzas first album on cold chillin then

Maybe stop comparing everything to fukkin wu tang

and i can say this about travis porter even more easily. your rhetoric here is concerned with tamping down on those who suggest that the current state of crit is concerned only with kingmaking artists w/in a certain milieu, afterwards coming up with 'innovative' justifications; you're simply trying to suggest that 'sometimes artists are overlooked'. the real state of things is, usually artists are overrated; jenkinson is 'innovative' for creating his own sound & so is basically any of 100 rappers i can think of from last year. freddie gibbs for exampel.

holy shit D-40 ate his wheaties this morning! also had no idea you repped for aes

scott p trolling whiney hard but will he take the bait??? film at eleven

His place in the indie music landscape is oddly most reminiscent of Salem, another gothic, often-derided group beloved by a core of committed young listeners but shrugged off by those with a more developed perspective.

its obv theyre patterning themselves on wu-tang in some way though (or just another big crew), taking the same kind of approach to signing multiple record deals, having full creative control etc etc. or maybe thats just so ingrained in every hip hop artists approach to record deal making since that you dont even have to remember what the wu did to do it the same way.

*they're just another big crew

I was just being flippant fwiw.

how was that an 8.0 review? Read more like a 6.0.

its ok, they are basically like wu-tang again, if wu-tang was more like d12

yes but the internet

I think Earl is more like Hubert Selby Jr.

His place in the indie music landscape is oddly most reminiscent of Salem, another gothic, often-derided group beloved by a core of committed young listeners but shrugged off by those with a more developed perspective.

i love odd future, hate salem, and this is still totally on the mark

the 8.0 is probably p4k's way of being ambiguous about what they thought about it. kind of like giving it bnm without actually doing that. 6.0 would draw too much attention, and hurt their 'credibility' after they've hyped OF so much.

Love the nu-RS nature to the rating politics there.

I just wish Ryan S would pull more Jann moves and drop random 10.0 reviews on old faves

is Walt Mink still going? they could have a Goddess In The Doorway moment.

lol @ the idea of rating politics