ODD FUTURE WOLF GANG KILL THEM ALL

the educationally subnormal Geto Boys, Nekro, 2LiveCrew, Cannibal Corpse, or Whitehouse

fyi, i would say everyone in this list besides Necro [sic] is totally smart

Haven't read a whole lot about OF, even in this thread, and I'm wary of being baited or repeating stuff that's already said, but what seems fresh about Tyler's brand of adolescent hive-baiting is that there aren't many new artists causing this kind of controversy in recent memory. Purposefully upsetting people seemed par for the course when I was a teen in the mid-90s what with Necro, Anal Cunt etc fuelling our Beavis & Buttheaded guffawing. And then suddenly this all became kind of unacceptable or at least the joke had worn thin by the turn of the century. We suddenly expected a certain amount of, i dunno, civility from our recording artists. Being a malicious little prick was no longer seen as cool or funny or subversive - it was just dumb, fratty ignorance.

Or maybe I just grew up, but I don't remember having been exposed to subversive/adolescent lyrical content of this kind post-Eminem/Tom Green.

So yeah, it's not that original or new, but in a way enough time has passed so someone writing these kinds of lyrics has the power to cause controversy all over again - this is amplified by general culture having supposedly matured in its outlook and sensibilities in the last decade.

xpost Now I'm trying to think of a genuinely stupid rapper.

yeah luke always seems pretty smart, lol i just noticed whitehouse

xpost Now I'm trying to think of a genuinely stupid rapper.

― Pop is superior to all other genres (DL), Tuesday, May 10, 2011 10:01 AM (25 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

like a basketball, player

We suddenly expected a certain amount of, i dunno, civility from our recording artists. Being a malicious little prick was no longer seen as cool or funny or subversive - it was just dumb, fratty ignorance.

nah, dude, this is called "dog latin grew up." I can point you to plenty of '00s rap/metal/power electronics that's as icky as all this stuff. Plus Blowfly totally had a hipster comeback in the mid-00s!

i think the review is p good doran but i think the educational subnormal thing is pretty offensive esp because scarface is so much more insightful and poignant and just better than tyler on every single level and bushwick and willie d are frequently funny and gonzo and in bushwick's case occaissionally sad in a way

Yeah, I actually feel pretty bad about this now. I meant to convey that some of their lyrics were pretty dumb but ended up looking pretty educationally subnormal myself.

I've amended the piece now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv_UOnGvfdk

WHITE ROCK CRITICS WHERE WERE YOU?!?!?!?!

xpost, fair dos - growing up and also a distancing from the metal scene of my youth may play a huge part in this.. that said, there'll always be a few exceptions bubbling about in the ether.

my question is, if people have always done this, why are we getting up in arms about Tyler's schtick now? Is it because he's more popular than those power electronics artists of whom you speak? Why is he popular and why haven't we seen this happen until now?

1. genuinely offended by calling the Geto Boys "educationally subnormal." That's fucking bullshit, is what. They are an all-time great rap act whose work has been complex and rewarding for many, many years. It's not like some hip-hop deep knowledge that Scarface is one of the best writers in popular music, full stop; even herbs like me know it. a person writing about rap music should be familiar with the Geto Boys and know that they're among the more complex projects of the whole rap era.

2. tho i dont get why just for calling a journo a faggot, as opposed to all the other people tyler has called faggot, that should make us decide how we feel about tyler. rappers acting like immature prima donnas who dont like interviews shockah.

Because the argument made to defend the use of "faggot" in the work is that it's part & parcel of a working persona, a literary voice. When the artist in question calls people "faggot" in real life, it kinda settles that question.

XP: That whole paragraph originally had stuff like "censor baiting 2LiveCrew" and "completely merit free XXXManiak" in it but I shouldn't have left that about GBs in; it was pretty snide.

I think Cannibal Corpse are a smart band but I'd say out of all the people that I mention the real idiots are GG Allin and XXXManiak, neither of who are hip hop.

That was just laziness and bad editing on my part.

Is this the thread where I defend XXXManiak?

This song is called "Raped By A Retard"

vhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_72nIIDmh54

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_72nIIDmh54

I have nothing to declare but my XXXManiak album.

bad look Whiney I think "Aroused by the Rape Trial" is the one you wanted

Vintage stuff on the Guardian thread under Lex's article. All the classics: "Why is it OK to call someone a redneck but not an N-word?", "faggot actually means a bundle of sticks", "hip hop isn't even proper music" and defenders and haters of Tyler both accusing each other of being white and middle-class.

Now I'm trying to think of a genuinely stupid rapper.

...grocery bag

i did my duty and actually posted in that comment thread, no more

also "he's not serious, he didn't mean it, it's just a bunch of kids having a laugh" as though i hadn't actually written about the difference between active and cultural homophobia

XP,

DL, It was the same on the Lester thread. If you like them you're a closet-racist middle-class white boy and if you hate them you're a closet-racist, middle-class white boy.

...if the Guardian had board descriptions

"I've put one of these unexpected and slightly daft (but potentially illuminating at the same time) comparisons in about 90% of the reviews I've done over the last decade and it never fails to amaze me that it's only ever provincial, English middle class hip hop fans who get so upset by them. While I'd be lying if I said I didn't realise each time how much upset it's going to cause, it's not the primary or even secondary motivation. I just get bored of reviews that solely consist of, "Well it's ok and it's not that much different from some other OFWGKTA albums, like Peter Sutcliffe fronting Company Flow".

If it's not your primary or secondary motivation to throw "unexpected and slightly daft" comparisons in, why do it in the first place? Because you're bored of reviews that don't? I'm trying real hard to understand this but you're not giving it to me. You throw in daft comparisons (and yes, this one definitely qualifies as one) for the fun of it, to spice it up? Not even for shock-value? Because of boredom? I call bullshit.

The Geto Boys defaming and Bukowski comparison are two ridiculous cock-ups in what otherwise is a great review of its own. They needn't be in there imho.

A regular Guardian thread tactic is to say you hate hip hop but only because of its white middle-class fans, thus allowing you to rubbish a black artform while posing as anti-racist. Or just "Rap music? Don't you mean (C)rap music?" That works too.

"Hip hop?! More like shit-hop amirite?"

Recommend (54)

ban doran

i think dorans review is actually a well written piece. but i dont know why it is that whenver rap/soul/black music fans pick out something in a (rock) critics writing, they always pull out the 'im not interested in what white/english/provincial readers have to say' card. maybe those readers arent interested in what w/e/p critics have to say either lol. all the scarface stuff is right, he is more complex than just reducing him to 'nutjob rapper' but that was a pretty big part of his writing too. yeah i know that in recent years everyone has elevated him to this great lofty 'Raps Greatest Writers' mantle but shock and the 'im crazy me' thing was part of his shtick too. just saying.

i like shock as much as the next man but i just dont sense any gravitas in much of tylers music

xpost to flopson

oh come on, i think it's good to have disagreements abt stuff and doran is a great poster in ilx

XP: Cheers. The Geto Boys thing has been amended and apologized for. The Bukowski thing... well, I'm hoping that an unusual comparison will throw some light on the subject in a novel way. It works for some people and not for others. The more literal will be outraged by it, the more lateral will be (hopefully) intrigued by it. What I wanted to say was that Tyler The Creator - whether it was his intention or not - helped to shine a pretty unforgiving light on certain parts of mainstream rap regardless of the quality of his own music. I just didn't want to do it in a way that I'd read a 1000 times elsewhere. Also, I was pretty liberal in making it clear that it was just a personal opinion and a slightly playful one at that rather than saying, 'He is exactly the same as a fat drunk white beatnik writer who died twenty years ago' because that would just be stupid.

i like shock as much as the next man but i just dont sense any gravitas in much of tylers music

yeah the attempted gravitas doesn't succeed (in part b/c of the shock tactics) but tyler has pretty much no sense of fun to counterbalance it (and there's not much fun to be had in their beats, as decent as they can be - constant dragging tempos and ~bleak~ soundzzz, whatever)

ey yest a little yoke

i love so many ignorant rap lyrics but you could at least dance to crunk, y'know?

Yeah don't know what that 'ban doran' thing is about. If Suggest-Suggest Bans were riffles this place would be a bloodbath, jeez.

xxxp

xp lex, not relevant

rifles even

it was ajoke

i like shock as much as the next man but i just dont sense any gravitas in much of tylers music

― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 16:44 (1 minute ago) Bookmark

Hate to say it, but more often than not I hear his raps as sock-on-cock mattress soliloquys as opposed to matey in-jokes.

Sincerely I'm mortified now. I'm commissioning a feature on Geto Boys to run on the Quietus as a way of salving my slightly necrotic conscience.

its easy to nitpick dorans point about deleting (or whatever) gza emails but i think we all got his point (even if the examples are wrong). hes just saying tyler doesnt care about the old guard. cos yknow hes so rebellious! no seriously, i dont mind that. makes a change. im not even a huge fan of a lot of modern mainstream rap but its obvious OF are trying to set themselves up as going against that. i dont see how this is a bad thing. this is what rap is meant to be about guys. even if OF *are* obvious hipster/rock-crit catnip. that said, isnt tyler working with pharrell? like to see how he can maintain his outsider status working with fucking pharrell.

doran, fuck that, run a feature on necro and ill bill.

a feature on Geto Boys to run on the Quietus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk8mm1Qmt-Y

i mean, geto boys even get played on fucking 6 music. (only mind playing tricks i admit, but hey). necro and ill bill have more underground cred (and not in the backpacker way either, tho dont see whats so bad about that either, sick of having to apologise for liking backpack shit)

before someone guns my 'underground cred' point, i just meant that in a sort of 'true cult status' way.

lex i haven't read yr article yet (but will & look forward to) but the one complaint i've about your posts itt is the position you come at the music from is "well the music isn't that good anyway" rather than "the music is great but uh" which is fine, but for those who do think the music is (atvl occasionally) great & inspired, all these "y bother its not even as fun to dance to as crunk" arguments are kind of unnecessary & give the impression u kind of just dgi

i often get the impression lex just likes stupid music, or at least, whenever he quotes lyrics, its usually some dumbness.

(i love(d) lil jon too tho, fwiw)

ha lex is possibly my fav lyric quotes poster on rap & r&b threads

the crunk thing wasn't a direct comparison, it was more an example of the ignorant/dubious lyrics i do enjoy (ie i'm not just criticising this on moral grounds)

i thought the teairra marí lyrics i quoted on this thread were quite smart, observant and kinda brave, titchy

back to tyler/of tho, that lil silva remix of yonkers fucking sucks.
tho my faith in silva has been shattered since he did that song with sampha.