Simon Reynolds - C or D

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do you think he's got more visceral? i think he should lay off the patois, is all.

N_RQ, Wednesday, 5 October 2005 13:46 (twenty years ago)

ha physician heal thyself

twaddle widdle, Wednesday, 5 October 2005 13:59 (twenty years ago)

i'ma wet you up inna chest, twaddle

N_RQ, Wednesday, 5 October 2005 14:04 (twenty years ago)

If you compare Blissed Out to, say, his Uncut reviews these past few years, yes — MUCH more visceral. It's almost as if, as he's gotten older, he's not just thinking about the music anymore — he's listening to it, feeling it and then enlisting his intellectual capacities. It's a positive development, I think.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 14:22 (twenty years ago)

i don't read uncut, but i think he's got less sure of things, politically (this might be a good thing, but i don't think he brings the fire so much now).

N_RQ, Wednesday, 5 October 2005 14:24 (twenty years ago)

What do you mean by "politically"?

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 14:26 (twenty years ago)

in RIUASA his bits about the political situation of 78-84 hardly seem to come from the pen of reynolds, his stated political reference source is (i think) the companion to some channel 4 series, and in general it's a real let-down. stuff like 'the unions were holding society to ransom' or something, a moderate, liberal voice. he used to be more of a lefty (despite all the refs to non-lefty french dudes).

N_RQ, Wednesday, 5 October 2005 14:29 (twenty years ago)

It boggles my mind how anyone could read Blissed Out and not get the huge feeling and excitement SR was getting off the music! I don't think it's changed, maybe he expresses it more directly since he started blogging, but it's always been there in his writing surely.

Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 14:34 (twenty years ago)

It boggles my mind how anyone could read Blissed Out and not get the huge feeling and excitement SR was getting off the music!

Uh yeah. Are you people saying it wasn't there on crack or something?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 14:35 (twenty years ago)

sometimes i read him
then i listen to the music he wrote about
then i wonder what the fuck he was hearing

hater, Wednesday, 5 October 2005 14:52 (twenty years ago)

Well, the passion's always been there. But I think he's learned to express himself in a more direct and less erudite way.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 14:56 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, that's why the later Reynolds isn't as good. (I still think the Death of Jungle basically was the Death of Reynolds.)

Omar (Omar), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 15:05 (twenty years ago)

i prefer his writing now
its more direct
still dont like certain opinions of his, he expresses them better than most rock journalists, but his hatred of soul and conflicted love/hate relationship with virtually all black music leads him into this typical white liberal middle class cul de sac which i find annoying
plus on dissensus he once said all black music is slick and i find his general condescension slightly irritating
hes a good writer though
rockist despite his aims not to be, everything he writes is fucking rockist as he draws it all back to rock, even when its about dance
i mean, recently he credited a rakim hip hop lyric to ian brown!
hilarity

hater, Wednesday, 5 October 2005 15:10 (twenty years ago)

Actually I do wish Arular was more of a pop album. I would flat out adore an entire album like "Amazon".

See, I don't understand this statement at all. The kids go crazy for many other fun tracks on Arular - I have witnessed this myself! How is "10 Dollar" or "Bucky Done Gone" not pop????

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:14 (twenty years ago)

I guess I'm trying to figure out why someone I agreed with so much when reading the Melody Maker, Blissed Out, Feminine Pressure etc etc etc, could strike me as so close minded and just plain wrong recently, especially WRT M.I.A.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:23 (twenty years ago)

I'll admit that I was generally disappointed with many of my favorite critics' sitting-on/wringing-of hands reaction to MIA.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:36 (twenty years ago)

many white critics dont know what to make of MIA, its too much for them to take on.

hater, Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:41 (twenty years ago)

Er, disappointed that they didn't agree with you or disappointed in how they disagreed with you?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:42 (twenty years ago)

Let's say shocked at their slow and/or negative reaction based on their previous opinions.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:45 (twenty years ago)

(Also, what I perceived to be the consistency of their previous opinions)

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:47 (twenty years ago)

Ned, I'm obviously not upset simply because someone disagrees with me.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:48 (twenty years ago)

Right, right...it's just that personally I'm not surprised at all when opinions deviate from what one might expect of someone's tastes. To assume otherwise always puts them in a box -- "I like these things, he/she/it likes these things, ergo if I like this thing, he/she/it will like it as well." It's an understandable enough assumption but surely can't be a hard and fast rule.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:50 (twenty years ago)

Well, I actually do appreciate the consistency of certain reviewer's logic, even if I disagree with their ultimate thumbs up or down critique.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:56 (twenty years ago)

this is because only white artists can do art school projects and have cred, when 'the ethnics' do it it just means theyre no longer authentic, duh

yeah, I have to admit that when I was reading the chapter on Remain in Light I couldn't help but think, "This is like the reverse-negative of what he said about M.I.A."

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 18:19 (twenty years ago)

Current Reynolds kind of reminds me of late-period Lenny Bruce when he got so obsessed with one thing that he forgot to be good. But this is probably unkind.

Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 20:00 (twenty years ago)

Since we're also commenting on the original thread, allow me to say that the original poster lost me when he said:

"As Lester Bangs wrote, I don't know shit about the English class system and I don't care shit about the English class system. (Well, I did once receive a paid trip to Cambridge University and found, with few exceptions, the profs and students alike to be the most snooty and arrogant bunch of toffs imaginable."

Which almost makes me think it's a prank, but probably not.

Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 20:12 (twenty years ago)

My students certainly regard M.I.A. as a pop phenom. Eight months ago they looked at me like I'd grown a third tit when I explained my attraction to a Sri Lankan artist; now they sing "Bucky Done Gone" in the same breath as they do "All The Things That I've Done." The tipping point came when several of them went to her show a couple of weeks ago while I stayed home, feeling old and tired and jetlagged.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

Spencer, when I say I wish Arular was more pop I don't mean it to be some devastating criticism; I recognise that it is very pop. Think of it as being along the lines of me saying I wish Since I Left You was (even) more housey, or Discovery was (even) more plasticky. I like it most when M.I.A. comes across as a bit of a Alesha-from-Mis-Teeq/Ms. Thing/Cec'ile type because that's basically my favourite music ever.

"Amazon" is by far my favourite track, but after that would probably come "U.R.A.Q.T.", "Hombre", "Bingo" and "$10". "Bucky Done Gun" is great too but often strikes me as a bit awkward in its construction (plus when it comes to baile/carioca funk I tend to like the tracks with big 80s hooks). Actually as far as I'm concerned the second half of the album is a fair bit stronger than the first.

(likewise... assuming you care... me saying that it's probably not going to be in my top ten isn't supposed to be a put-down either - I find it very difficult to ever limit a list a favourites of anything to just ten!)

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 6 October 2005 05:23 (twenty years ago)

"or what those would involve for Prince Harry to start making grime, for instance"

there's something strangely, terrifyingly wonderful about the ILX/Dissensus hivemind bubble that allows a sentence such as this to comeinto being.

shine on you crazy diamonds.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 6 October 2005 05:41 (twenty years ago)

It's kind of a Jack Lemmon/Walter Matthau scenario, ILx and Dissensus.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 6 October 2005 05:45 (twenty years ago)

yeah i'm pretty sure i've said this before but yr reaction matches mine. minor disappointment for me, prefer piracy greatly, the marlboro mix of bucky done gun (and done it agun) greatly. one thing about the supposed popist vs. rockist debate surrounding mia is that i don't recall there being any popist entries really (i think you probably weighed in on dissensus but wading thru that puritan circlejerk to find your posts was too close to professor jones going to berlin to retrieve his father's journal for me), in the press stateside what i read was either yay rockists going 'omg her backstory she's authentic and not icky authentic like say young jeezy but an authentic we can deal, a reality we're comfortable with, and she's not them other rappers with their yoyo bitch and the hipping and the hopping - she has something to say' ie something very similar to the party lines on outkast or (most especially) kanye vs nay rockists going 'but she's not even real grime/carioca/dancehall/etc and she fails my paperbag test and i heard she can read or even went to school like college even maybe so she's not a real refugee plus terrorism is evil evil evil and omg worst of all - she's a girl'. i don't think i saw a popist take anywhere, even potential ones ended up just rehashing the critical 'debate'.

reynolds is hitchens now, with less bite and wit but also somewhat less full of shit or 'provocative' in that what reynolds writes about is so so much more trivial than what hitchens writes about. they're both worth checking in on if only cuz contortionists are fun (thinking of the guy with the winking asshole in pink flamingos esp), and they somehow still will pop up with something otm a couple of times a year (literally like the proverbial broken clock). i still very much want to read ripitup (uk edition obv), he should (and probably will right?) stick to the past - he might still be able to write about that. the present and future hold no place for him.


xpost - surely ilx is matthau

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 6 October 2005 06:02 (twenty years ago)

Is it redundant to say i agree with yr agreement re M.I.A.?

There were some people (e.g. matos, spencer) running the "it's great pop music regardless" line on ILM, but yeah, the vast majority of published rock crit conformed to your description. The critical debate over M.I.A. really boiled down to rockists who give a shit about "proper" dancehall vs rockists who don't.

ILM's distrust of latterday Outkast and ambivalence towards Kanye West is I think a v. interesting factor in trying to talk about an ILM vs Dissensus (or anti-rockist vs nu-rockist) split on this issue. There seems to be something important about the fact that, say, Matt Woebot despises M.I.A. but thinks Kanye West is a genius, which I haven't quite unravelled.

BTW Jess was more the voice of reason w/r/t M.I.A. on Dissensus I think.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 6 October 2005 06:17 (twenty years ago)

The critical debate over M.I.A. really boiled down to rockists who give a shit about "proper" dancehall vs rockists who don't.

Tim I kiss you

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Thursday, 6 October 2005 06:22 (twenty years ago)

There seems to be something important about the fact that, say, Matt Woebot despises M.I.A. but thinks Kanye West is a genius, which I haven't quite unravelled.

TS: England vs. America

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Thursday, 6 October 2005 06:23 (twenty years ago)

Hey Matos Dissensus were rubbishing Luomo the other day and I was half-tempted to call you in as back-up.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 6 October 2005 06:30 (twenty years ago)

I haven't checked that board in ages; doesn't sounds very tempting now, either.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Thursday, 6 October 2005 06:51 (twenty years ago)

yeah the kanye's a major disappointment to me, but i'm hardly gonna go on and on about it cuz fuckit he's a rapper on the cover of a major newsweekly for reasons beside another 'o dear god hip-hop: it's scary' piece and he was otm re: bush and there's enough rockdorks (who usually don't even like actual rock)(christ i sounded like xhuckx there) and republicans on ilm to make it a bit of a pileon. that said i wish he'd ignored all those 'all he does is speed up obvious r&b samples' idiots (like, um, simon reynolds go figure). plus i think i have the same root problem with kanye that tom does with mia: i just can't stand the motherfucker's voice. i think i've masked this with some 'weak flow' line in the past but really that's bullshit - there's plenty of rappers with weakflow i LOVE (prince, michael stipe, some would say cowboy troy but these people apparently hate delicious vinyl and mc hammer so fuck them two times baby as another reynolds touchstone might say speaking of which wtf - i mean i'm not one of those 'ugh the doors' or 'ugh morrison' types - dude had a GREAT voice and if you stop thinking of them in the rolling stone sense and instead in a 'not as hard as the chocolate watchband but way trippier and when morrison finally embraced elvis it got superfun' it helps and at the very least 'no morrison = no iggy or patti' right but seriously who buys into the doors oli stone myth hook line and sinker and isn't fifty or maybe fifteen though i'm not sure the doors myth holds like it did - they ain't quite zeppelin), i didn't mind it as much on college dropout and in small doses it still doesn't grate maybe but tossed with weak or absent hooks like on late registration it's got no place to hide i just can't stand the motherfuckers voice.

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 6 October 2005 07:11 (twenty years ago)

When The College Dropout came out I wanted to hear it again and again, whereas with Late Registration I've played it maybe three times in full over the last four months. As I argued on Maja, I still think that the overflow of "Late Call" might be rap's answer to Molly Bloom. But then he had lots of other voices on TCD which possibly minimised his own perceived vocal annoyance. The grain of KW's voice (which that venerable Old Barthesian Reynolds would appreciate) doesn't particularly bother me, but I do get that feeling with the whole Banhart/Newsom/CocoRosie ululatory/Larry the Lamb school. I don't get it with T Rex because Bolan really did seem to spring out of nowhere (even if he didn't), whereas with Devendra and his pals I just picture someone who's spent ten years obsessively studying T Rex records, rather than coming to that conclusion on his/their own.

About The Odd Couple - yes, Jack Lemmon as Woebot, Matthau as Ewing; that is extremely logical.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 6 October 2005 07:18 (twenty years ago)

'the unions were holding society to ransom'

Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive,
But to be young was very heaven!

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 6 October 2005 07:52 (twenty years ago)

I have to say I found Rip It Up And Start Again pretty disappointing. It would be good as a primer for someone who doesn't know much about post-punk. But who in hell is going to buy a book about post-punk who isn't already into it to a fair degree? Books ain't cheap. In any case, I don't expect Reynolds to be writing primers for people who don't know the subject, I expect him to write something interesting, to spark off novel takes and ideas and so forth. But the book is just one journalistic portrait after another, and the points he makes tend to be the obvious ones that will have already struck anyone listening to the music.

James Russell, Thursday, 6 October 2005 07:58 (twenty years ago)

Books ain't cheap

Eventually, most of them end up being cheap... I'll let you know my viees on RIUASA when it ends up being cheap

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 6 October 2005 08:00 (twenty years ago)

"this is because only white artists can do art school projects and have cred, when 'the ethnics' do it it just means theyre no longer authentic, duh"

interesting -- if the art-schooled daughter of a northern irish terror outfit (either side) made an lp named after her father and adopted light terra-chic outfits/occasional lyrics, i think 'authenticity' (not in terms of roots, which is the wrong way to go) would be a viable object of study.

is it cool? has she thought about all this? that kind of thing. sri lanka is far away, so MIA had an easier ride of it.

"many white critics dont know what to make of MIA, its too much for them to take on."

hahaha, "power move" as grimey simey would say. absolute horseshit -- although i don't recall anyone saying at the time that sri lankan critics should have the final say on this.

spencer, why did you think it would have been 'consistent' for reynolds to have liked MIA?


xpost -- honestly, you don't need RIUASA

N_RQ, Thursday, 6 October 2005 08:09 (twenty years ago)

I don't imagine reading it as some kind of scholarly exercise, more like something you read on the bog

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 6 October 2005 08:13 (twenty years ago)

well, tmi and all, but that's where i read it.

N_RQ, Thursday, 6 October 2005 08:30 (twenty years ago)

the reason most dissensusians hate MIA is cos their patron saint reynolds hates her
idiots

hater, Thursday, 6 October 2005 09:44 (twenty years ago)

the thing about dissensus is that its as someone on ILM once said, its like one master thinker poses a theory then another master thinker receives it, props it up, sucks it off, poses another master theory, someone else recieves it, props it up, and so on and so on.....

wot, Thursday, 6 October 2005 10:03 (twenty years ago)

So you're saying there's a lot of intellectual mass debating at Dissensus? (Did ya see what I did there, did ya, did ya?)

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 6 October 2005 10:06 (twenty years ago)

"Gilles Deleuze took great pains to constantly point out that, unless you had a grasp of the entire western philosophical canon, you weren't about to eben begin to understand what he was on about..."

i don't think he said this, or not constantly, one book at least had him saying 'use this fucker, i don't own it, dn-suh-dn-duh i'm just a war machine' or something.

N_RQ, Thursday, 6 October 2005 10:14 (twenty years ago)

(for the record, I don't hate Dissensus, per se--just find it wearying in a way I don't ILM, probably because I got here first. also, there's more Americans here and I can parse stuff easier. I also like the new Kanye a lot, so there you go.)

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Thursday, 6 October 2005 10:20 (twenty years ago)

So much money here.

Tim, thanks for the further info on your critique. I should note that I never checked out Piracy Funds Terrorism before Arular was released - so for me the album itself was a complete rush on its own. I find "URAQT" to be basically annoying (and I love Sanford & Son!).

As for Reynolds, reading his earlier stuff I felt like he was coming to this fantastic music and then making connections with theory and history in order to add further significance to the music and the genre. I read and reread Blissed Out again and again and sent the Feminine Pressure link to every smart person I knew.

Now, I feel like he's placing new music into his own highly developed theory/map-of-music which acts as a barrier to his 'pure' enjoyment of the 'sounds' (which I'm wondering if his nu-rockism is challenging - I've never assumed 'sound' enjoyment to be completely apolitical, but it's at least an attempt at getting past a lot of rockist nonsense).

I'm sure that's an oversimplification, but I suppose it's just an annoyance with all the pop critics who could not 'just' hear a fantastic pop/dance production a la Richard X or Basement Jaxx with taunting girl chants on top.

I will be watching critical reactions to Lady Sovereign's "Hoodie" and eventual album very closely because anybody I've played it for here in the US instantly says "Oooh, is this the new MIA??" They seem to both be "AT" the same place, but I wonder if certain critics will like her more because they're more comfortable with where she's "FROM."

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 6 October 2005 12:34 (twenty years ago)


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