2011 Rolling Black Metal thread

Why are you asking that? You know he has.

Because from what he's saying, it doesn't sound like he has!

So where is the line?

One of the kids I give drum lessons to tells me he's getting getting into more Black metal like Allagoch... But I thought they were more doomy.. so I ask, where is the line from Black Metal, to Doom-I guess its getting blurred a bit, yeah?

I ask this cuz my black metal knowledge is limited, at least more than I realized.. lol
Cheers!!

Have you actually ever listened to his music, Phil?

Not only have I been listening to the Flying Luttenbachers (and Weasel's various other projects) since about 1997, but I've interviewed him at least twice that I can recall, exchanged multiple emails with him, talked with him at shows (seen the Luttenbachers at least three times)...so yeah, my impression of his work, while certainly open for debate, is not exactly uninformed.

So, you know, go fuck yourself.

too bad your reviews never seemed to indicate this vast knowledge!

As I was reading Phil's response all I could think was "some of my best friends are Weasel Walter."

Oh, I wouldn't call us friends by any means. I don't think he likes my response to his work any more than sarahel does.

he did inquire about the health of your curvy colombian wife once!

xpost but I thought Fenriz came off really well in that movie, some of what he said was funny as fuck

he was aware of the camera but how could he not be, he's being filmed for a doc, but that's not the same as "self important"

I thought that the film-makers tone of bemused mockery towards art-world appropriations of black metal was kind of a symptom of their own issues about the status of their documentary, like the art-world became the punching bag for a set of critiques that could apply just as well to themselves

Varg's account of the murder was sorta standard con-talk, pretty disingenuous and the way that the filmmakers never really challenge him made them look like credulous fanboys/fangirls who were just stoked to have access at all- but that's not really good enough considering the issues on the table

I am perhaps biased by my experience of the film- I saw it and thought it was okay, kind of interesting, but pretty shallow in its willingness to let the artists write their own ticket

but I saw it at a filmscreening with the directors, who did a Q+A afterwards about the movie where they seemed really naive and inarticulate

they were asked about the politics of black metal and just said (I'm pararphrasing) "we're not interested in politics, we just love this stuff as art"- which struck me as a totally corny, copout move in this context

this liturgy song is cool. it doesn't remind me of weasel walter/luttenbachers

parts almost remind me of like the black metal Jawbox...or like um...Helmet sorta

also i like it so it's probably not very trv

the repetitiveness reminds me of oneida sheets of easter

damn this is cool

I need to give this a thorough listen.

I'm not so sold on Liturgy, although I can see the charm of their irreverent approach to BM, the resulting 'thousand monkeys with typewriters' music makes it all extremely hit-and-miss. "Generation" and "Veins Of God" are the only songs that really work IMO, the rest of the album is just full of tremolo picked melodies that are so obvious/random that bands even as primal as Ildjarn or Ganzmord would already have discarded them in rehearsals. In fact, I still have hours of rehearsal material at home from my old band with riffs like that - when you're really desperate for ideas, just randomly move about various scales in the hope you somehow stumble upon a good melody. So to me this record feels mostly like "dumster diving metal". The flat & boring vocals sound like placeholders too.

Great drummer though, no doubt about that.

So where is the line?

One of the kids I give drum lessons to tells me he's getting getting into more Black metal like Allagoch... But I thought they were more doomy.. so I ask, where is the line from Black Metal, to Doom-I guess its getting blurred a bit, yeah?

I ask this cuz my black metal knowledge is limited, at least more than I realized.. lol
Cheers!!

It is a blurry line! Music-wise, black metal is usually fast or mid-tempo, sometimes with slow breakdowns. But as black metal pushes the envelope, it has produced slow atmospheric stuff it sounds very similar to doom stuff that is slow and atmospheric! Also, black metal and doom metal can overlap thematically and lyrically as they both have regions that are super "occult" -- like black magick stuff is big in both genres.

I mean there is some stuff out there that you could just as well call "shoegazey deathrock" or something and have it fit, it is so nebulously tied to any specific metal tradition. I tend to use whatever the band or artist likes to self-define as or basically historical definition -- if a band started out as traditional black metal but they are doing really sludgy slow stuff that sounds like doom metal these days they are still IMO a black metal band.

But as a general rule of thumb, I dunno, here's my music essentialist take (that I don't strictly believe in or follow) - the black metal should sound cold and dark and uncompromising, full of venom and bile. The best black metal invokes anger or aggression, and thus catharsis... Doom metal should sound urgent, hectoring and distraught. The best doom metal invokes fear and terror, and again, catharsis.

Sean perhaps you should try Drudkh or Alcest?

The flat & boring vocals sound like placeholders too.

Yeah, the vocals are really shitty... one of the worst attempts at black metal singing I've ever heard.
They sound more like some hollow scream-o type vocals... like layers of static that just take away from the music.

And the 'Animal Collective attempting to write Brian Wilson hymns' type crap is so soulless and godawful.

Otherwise, the music is gradually growing on me, but the best parts sounds like nice little blasts from an old Glenn Branca project.

I'm surprised that anyone is seriously calling it black metal or any kind of metal at all.

After hearing so much praise about the new Liturgy, I'm mostly disappointed.
There's nothing transcendental or transcendent about it all.

As far as hypnotic/'transcendental' USBM goes I much prefer Austere - To Lay Like Old Ashes

i dont think Liturgy's vocals are bad

i dont think Liturgy's vocals are bad

^^ me neither. i like that kinda blurry/etheral vocals that just seem to blend with the music despite the aggression (a shoegazey sort of inclination from my teenage years, i guess). which reminds me how much i loved draugar in that particular aspect. one of the things i usually don't enjoy is bm vocals that are way up there in the mix (classical case in point : under a funeral moon. i really enjoy the album, notwithstanding).

looks like i'm the only guy that hasn't listened to 'aesthetica' here...

As far as hypnotic/'transcendental' USBM goes I much prefer Austere - To Lay Like Old Ashes

― Siegbran

i only listened to the split with lyrinx. the vocals reminded me of weakling or (more accurately, perhaps) marblebog. in this last case even sonically. also similar to some "suicidal bm" like i shalt become or nortt but with a more shoegazey sound overall, no?

That's an elaborate way of saying they sound like Burzum, but yes.

Thanks Viceroy... Thats pretty much what I thought, It seemed wierd I guess, the same stuff being called 2 or 3 different things.. I like the lines getting blurred though. its like everyone is taking ALL of extreme music, using varying amounts of ingredients and coming up with different flavors of stuff-I love it!

Isn't there a thing about production? like the true BM is recorded poorly?

depends who you talk to i suppose

I'm talking to you, Kerr!!! lol!

Well I wouldn't say im the best qualified guy to ask about BM but I'd say generally yes, but a lot of BM is well produced nowadays. It's certainly not all lofi. A big difference between bone awl & agalloch for instance but it works well for both!

So, you know, go fuck yourself.

― that's not funny. (unperson), Monday, April 11, 2011 9:17 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j231/su94r/u-mad1.jpg

"exchanged multiple emails"

dying

I'm not so sold on Liturgy, although I can see the charm of their irreverent approach to BM, the resulting 'thousand monkeys with typewriters' music makes it all extremely hit-and-miss. "Generation" and "Veins Of God" are the only songs that really work IMO, the rest of the album is just full of tremolo picked melodies that are so obvious/random that bands even as primal as Ildjarn or Ganzmord would already have discarded them in rehearsals. In fact, I still have hours of rehearsal material at home from my old band with riffs like that - when you're really desperate for ideas, just randomly move about various scales in the hope you somehow stumble upon a good melody. So to me this record feels mostly like "dumster diving metal". The flat & boring vocals sound like placeholders too.

Post MP3s please. I'd like to hear the genius stuff you're throwing away and the even better stuff you're hapy with.

(My own problems with Liturgy concern the vocals but 'flat' isn't a word I'd use to describe them.)

xpost - thanks for the tip on Austere, Siegbran. Amazing.

Post MP3s please. I'd like to hear the genius stuff you're throwing away and the even better stuff you're hapy with.

for those who dont look at new answers
Who are the BIG FOUR OF BLACK METAL?

lyric sheet for the beginning of liturgy's glass earth: 'hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey'

*goes back to listening to evanesence*

whilst snacking?

\n\o\t\ \y\e\t\

If you put blastbeats under Glenn Branca's "Symphony No. 8" it would be pretty convincing avant-black metal. Add some screeching, too.

got the other 2 Book Of Sand cdrs in the mail

been blasting Inquisition's "Ominous Doctrines . ." all week. Compulsive stuff!

that album's great!

All the elements come together perfectly. Solid old-school BM stuff, but with lots of weird sonics and surprises leaping out of the mix. And those vocals!

New Alcest song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXKv37xtuyE

apparently the circle of ouroborus pre-orders are about to be shipped

Anyone get the Liturgy / Oval RSD split?

Really dig the Liturgy side. Oval side is really disappointing.

Nope, didn't know there was one!

I'm putting Liturgy on tomorrow so if (a) they have copies and (b) I don't hemorrhage money on the show I'll probably get one. Is the Oval side tiny little micro-tracks like the thing they did last year?