2011 Rolling Black Metal thread

so checking out Negative Plane

it was quite good. Listening to the Fen/De Arma split, anyone know if De Arma have anything else out?

I interviewed Liturgy a couple years ago. The dude struck me as very sharp.

And yeah, the new Krallice is fantastic, especially the second half, when it really kicks into high gear.

looking fwd for the new aderlating (gnaw their tongues side project). 'devotional hymns' was such a recurrent listen.

also (usually) worth checking : oaks of bethel and njiqahdda (tho the amount of releases makes it almost inhumanely possible to keep track)

^^sort of note to self, actually. ah

I've had to resort to keeping an actual list of Njiqahdda releases that I can tick off. Not really felt the last few (well the last few I got, there's been at least a handful since), so perhaps I need to let go. Will give them a little longer though.

anyone else want in google club? alan n do you ever check email?

so circle of ouroborus have a new split lp
http://moonlightgates.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/circle-of-ouroborus-drowning-the-light-moonflares-split-2011-www-moonlightgates-wordpress-com.jpg

Anyone heard it?

i'll join the google thing

need email

webmail me your email if you dont want to post it here

did liturgy hire animal collective circa 2004 to do the beginning of "harmonia"

http://www.musicfearsatan.com/DSK/nachtmystium_roadburn_(big).jpg

I actually pre-ordered that above lp early in january, my folks paid for it as a birthday present and its still not here!

emailed the label but no reply, guess they might be busy with something...

i haven't heard lots of proper black metal, or even false black metal, but i get the feeling that the rhythms on that liturgy album are a little unusual. does such a sustained morse-code/telegraph rhythmic idea show up on any well-known black metal albums?

Drudkh spinoff with Neige (Alcest) = Old Silver Key

http://www.season-of-mist.com/bands/old-silver-key

Liturgy's rhythms are unique. Talked about it with Hunt-Hendrix the other day.

Liturgy's rhythms are quite reminiscent of Zach Hill and Weasel Walter.

The aim of this new project is to create nostalgic, romantic and light atmosphere of solitude, beholding, childhood and warmth.

ugh. this is what happens when black metallers get old, isn't it?

Liturgy's rhythms are quite reminiscent of Zach Hill and Weasel Walter.

Not nearly as complex as Hill or as "mindlessly" (I put it in quotes 'cause I know he thinks about every hit) aggressive as Walter. He is after something very specific from his drummer, something that's rooted in blast beats but slightly different from the norm.

"mindlessly" (I put it in quotes 'cause I know he thinks about every hit) aggressive

then why even use that word?

Because it's meant to sound mindless, even though it clearly isn't. Weasel is attracted to, and cannily exploits, the imagery of savagery as it relates to black metal and free jazz.

huh, is he normally more… out there? on that new record with mary halvorson he just seems like… a free jazz drummer to me.

Yeah, try the group he co-leads with second drummer Marc Edwards; they've got two releases that are just relentlessly assaultive. You could also check out his Tribute to Masayuki Takayanagi album with Jim O'Rourke and Fred Lonberg-Holm.

i just watched "until the light takes us"... not sure if it was ever mentioned in any of the previous rolling metal threads, but my rental store just got it in this week. it was informative... but a bit weird. fenriz was insufferable. varg seemed to have a better handle on the politics of black metal and gave the genre a good sense of context, but then he got on about his judeo-christian hate and it was harder to take him seriously.

i was hoping that it would be a good primer into black metal music, but the music seemed to be the last thing on the filmmakers' minds.

huh, is he normally more… out there? on that new record with mary halvorson he just seems like… a free jazz drummer to me.

Classic ILX. "I dunno, dude...I just hope Corsano doesn't sell out and go all 'Monkey Pockie Boo' on us or some shit. I'm so over stock fiery cacophonic free jazz mayhem."

Also, borntohula, how was Fenriz 'insufferable??' Dude is pretty much the only black metal musician I think I'd have over to my house for dinner. Seems like a genuinely awesome, self-aware kinda dude.

he just seemed like he was really self-important. maybe that's a kind of self-awareness, because he was really in tune with where he fit within the formation of the scene and whatnot, but a lot of his soundbytes came off as masturbatory and self-congratulatory. he might deserve that kind of praise, i haven't really listened to his work, but i just found it irritating. the "artistic" shots of him walking slowly through a wintry wooded landscape really didn't help much either.

Because it's meant to sound mindless, even though it clearly isn't.

Have you actually ever listened to his music, Phil?

Why are you asking that? You know he has.

Because from what he's saying, it doesn't sound like he has!

So where is the line?

One of the kids I give drum lessons to tells me he's getting getting into more Black metal like Allagoch... But I thought they were more doomy.. so I ask, where is the line from Black Metal, to Doom-I guess its getting blurred a bit, yeah?

I ask this cuz my black metal knowledge is limited, at least more than I realized.. lol
Cheers!!

Have you actually ever listened to his music, Phil?

Not only have I been listening to the Flying Luttenbachers (and Weasel's various other projects) since about 1997, but I've interviewed him at least twice that I can recall, exchanged multiple emails with him, talked with him at shows (seen the Luttenbachers at least three times)...so yeah, my impression of his work, while certainly open for debate, is not exactly uninformed.

So, you know, go fuck yourself.

too bad your reviews never seemed to indicate this vast knowledge!

As I was reading Phil's response all I could think was "some of my best friends are Weasel Walter."

Oh, I wouldn't call us friends by any means. I don't think he likes my response to his work any more than sarahel does.

he did inquire about the health of your curvy colombian wife once!

xpost but I thought Fenriz came off really well in that movie, some of what he said was funny as fuck

he was aware of the camera but how could he not be, he's being filmed for a doc, but that's not the same as "self important"

I thought that the film-makers tone of bemused mockery towards art-world appropriations of black metal was kind of a symptom of their own issues about the status of their documentary, like the art-world became the punching bag for a set of critiques that could apply just as well to themselves

Varg's account of the murder was sorta standard con-talk, pretty disingenuous and the way that the filmmakers never really challenge him made them look like credulous fanboys/fangirls who were just stoked to have access at all- but that's not really good enough considering the issues on the table

I am perhaps biased by my experience of the film- I saw it and thought it was okay, kind of interesting, but pretty shallow in its willingness to let the artists write their own ticket

but I saw it at a filmscreening with the directors, who did a Q+A afterwards about the movie where they seemed really naive and inarticulate

they were asked about the politics of black metal and just said (I'm pararphrasing) "we're not interested in politics, we just love this stuff as art"- which struck me as a totally corny, copout move in this context

this liturgy song is cool. it doesn't remind me of weasel walter/luttenbachers

parts almost remind me of like the black metal Jawbox...or like um...Helmet sorta

also i like it so it's probably not very trv

the repetitiveness reminds me of oneida sheets of easter

damn this is cool

I need to give this a thorough listen.

I'm not so sold on Liturgy, although I can see the charm of their irreverent approach to BM, the resulting 'thousand monkeys with typewriters' music makes it all extremely hit-and-miss. "Generation" and "Veins Of God" are the only songs that really work IMO, the rest of the album is just full of tremolo picked melodies that are so obvious/random that bands even as primal as Ildjarn or Ganzmord would already have discarded them in rehearsals. In fact, I still have hours of rehearsal material at home from my old band with riffs like that - when you're really desperate for ideas, just randomly move about various scales in the hope you somehow stumble upon a good melody. So to me this record feels mostly like "dumster diving metal". The flat & boring vocals sound like placeholders too.

Great drummer though, no doubt about that.

So where is the line?

One of the kids I give drum lessons to tells me he's getting getting into more Black metal like Allagoch... But I thought they were more doomy.. so I ask, where is the line from Black Metal, to Doom-I guess its getting blurred a bit, yeah?

I ask this cuz my black metal knowledge is limited, at least more than I realized.. lol
Cheers!!

It is a blurry line! Music-wise, black metal is usually fast or mid-tempo, sometimes with slow breakdowns. But as black metal pushes the envelope, it has produced slow atmospheric stuff it sounds very similar to doom stuff that is slow and atmospheric! Also, black metal and doom metal can overlap thematically and lyrically as they both have regions that are super "occult" -- like black magick stuff is big in both genres.

I mean there is some stuff out there that you could just as well call "shoegazey deathrock" or something and have it fit, it is so nebulously tied to any specific metal tradition. I tend to use whatever the band or artist likes to self-define as or basically historical definition -- if a band started out as traditional black metal but they are doing really sludgy slow stuff that sounds like doom metal these days they are still IMO a black metal band.

But as a general rule of thumb, I dunno, here's my music essentialist take (that I don't strictly believe in or follow) - the black metal should sound cold and dark and uncompromising, full of venom and bile. The best black metal invokes anger or aggression, and thus catharsis... Doom metal should sound urgent, hectoring and distraught. The best doom metal invokes fear and terror, and again, catharsis.

Sean perhaps you should try Drudkh or Alcest?

The flat & boring vocals sound like placeholders too.

Yeah, the vocals are really shitty... one of the worst attempts at black metal singing I've ever heard.
They sound more like some hollow scream-o type vocals... like layers of static that just take away from the music.

And the 'Animal Collective attempting to write Brian Wilson hymns' type crap is so soulless and godawful.

Otherwise, the music is gradually growing on me, but the best parts sounds like nice little blasts from an old Glenn Branca project.

I'm surprised that anyone is seriously calling it black metal or any kind of metal at all.

After hearing so much praise about the new Liturgy, I'm mostly disappointed.
There's nothing transcendental or transcendent about it all.

As far as hypnotic/'transcendental' USBM goes I much prefer Austere - To Lay Like Old Ashes

i dont think Liturgy's vocals are bad

i dont think Liturgy's vocals are bad

^^ me neither. i like that kinda blurry/etheral vocals that just seem to blend with the music despite the aggression (a shoegazey sort of inclination from my teenage years, i guess). which reminds me how much i loved draugar in that particular aspect. one of the things i usually don't enjoy is bm vocals that are way up there in the mix (classical case in point : under a funeral moon. i really enjoy the album, notwithstanding).

looks like i'm the only guy that hasn't listened to 'aesthetica' here...