Cocteau Twins : Classic or Dud

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Hey, since this is at the top of the NEW ANSWERS again, anyone heard that new project of Guthrie's? Violet Indiana, that is? I know what Andy thinks...anyone else have a take on it?

― Sean Carruthers, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

does no one around here rate head over heels? i think it's easily their best record. "sugar hiccup"...yowza...it's a bit like the sugarcube's "birthday"...it just sends me in a way few other songs do...the perfect distillation of their aesthetic into a brief almost-but-not-quite pop song. (hey tom, does this qualify for the "pop (not pop)" debate?) ;)

― jess, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Head Over Heels is their best, Jess? Well no shit, Sherlock.

― Andy K., Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Head Over Heels is pretty damn great, and I think the album I play the most after Treasure and Heaven or Las Vegas. It has much more variety than many of the other albums, certainly in comparison to Garlands, and "Musette and Drums" is just monstrous.

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I don't think anybody used the E word to describe them until well after Head Over Heels. Evil, perhaps, but not e-fucking-thereal. Those guitars sound ferocious and Liz' cries sound like child abuse. I like " The Tinderbox" along with "Musette" and "Hiccups". Great as Treasure was it marks the beginning, along with a slew of singles and EPs from that time, of the Cocteau's sweet side overtaking their gloriously sinister side.

― Curt, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

one year passes...

REVIVE-A-RAMA!

I'm on a spree tonight - and I'm massively back into the Cocs. I think Treasure is one of my all time fave albums, but my knowledge of the rest of their stuff doesn't extend much past it, only to "Four Calendar Cafe" (which I realise is to Treasure as Sing when Your Winning is to Life thru a Lens).

So go on - lets speak of how awesomely great Lorelei is.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 22:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Cocteau twins are so very overdue for a rarities/b-sides collection. 4AD's reissued lots of the 80's EPs, but there's worthwhile stuff from the 90's too that's still lost. 'Round', 'An Elan', 'Flock of Soul' were all M&K b-sides, I think. there's also the lovely 'Need-Fire', which was only on, of all things, the Judge Dredd soundtrack. oh, and their last recorded song ever, 'Touch by Touch', which is a real connection to Violet Indiana... lovely stuff.

― derrick (derrick), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 03:54 (twenty-two years ago)

As classic as it's possible to get -- despite later stuff letting them down.

One of the great bands of the 80s.

― David A. (Davant), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 05:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyone who says "dud" gets the eternal middle finger from me.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 14:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never really engaged with the Cocteaus... I can see why people like them, but what I've heard by them has never made me go "WOW! THAT'S BRILLIANT". with the exception of 'Song To The Siren', which might be by This Mortal Coil rather than the Cocs themselves as such.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Mmm, they are rather like eating a whole treacle steam pudding to yourself: delightful at first but 3 1/4 the way through and it's - glckk! ... enough spongey sweetness!
But those first few mouthfuls - wow wow wow, heaven!

― David Merryweather (DavidM), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

re-revive-orama !

some time last autumn i had a funny turn :

falling in love with the cocteaus again.

― piscesboy, Wednesday, 27 August 2003 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

DV, for all intents and purposes, "Song to the Siren" is a Cocteaus song (Liz and... Simon(?)).

― Leee (Leee), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

I'm seeing Robin Guthrie solo tonight in San Francisco. I will report back afterward.

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 12 November 2004 04:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Please do!

― Seb (Seb), Friday, 12 November 2004 06:49 (twenty-one years ago)

It should be a very placid evening.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Friday, 12 November 2004 06:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes tell us what happens, Kyle.

― Bimble (bimble), Friday, 12 November 2004 08:03 (twenty-one years ago)

It was quite good! I fell asleep though (twice). He performed to a film he'd made which was kind of superfluous; pretty, but kind of sub-brakhage attempts at color and light with a few naked ladies thrown in for good measure. It was good to have something to look at occasionally though. Songs were from Imperial (a few of them) and some were new; they were definitely much more interesting live than the album, which, again, is pretty, but kind of inconsequential. It was great to see him generate those classic Guthrie reverb drenched tones though. He plays so effortlessly, everything looks so easy. I think the tour dates are on the bella union site, if you're a fan it's well worth going.

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 12 November 2004 08:31 (twenty-one years ago)

two months pass...

So Hilburn/LA Times are claiming the Cocteaus are reuniting and playing Coachella, as will be announced tomorrow. Allegedly.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 31 January 2005 07:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I know, I just read that on the other thread and I'm afraid I'm just in shock. Surely it can't really be?

― Bimble... (Bimble...), Monday, 31 January 2005 07:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Maximum classic. Aside from echoing the feeling of other pro-Twin-ists, I can only add that immersion in their stuff truly is a dependable visit--I shall now sound very earnest and lame--to a very safe, candy-cotton cocoony place.

― iang, Monday, 31 January 2005 07:38 (twenty-one years ago)

recorded, classic. live... dud.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Monday, 31 January 2005 07:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, well, she used to get pretty nervous live, that's true. But by the time of Milk & Kisses it seemed to me she might have conquered a lot of her fright.

― Bimble... (Bimble...), Monday, 31 January 2005 08:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Can't find a damn thing on the "official web site" about a reunion other than rumours.

― Bimble... (Bimble...), Monday, 31 January 2005 08:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Off to the desert!

http://www.ambitious-outsiders.com/images/lineup05.jpg

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 31 January 2005 14:52 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe they'll tour later this year with Dead Can Dance and my head can FUCKING EXPLODE

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 31 January 2005 14:59 (twenty-one years ago)

new order billed below nine inch nails?
bauhaus and cocteau twins billed below coldplay?

my heart just broke

― rentboy (rentboy), Monday, 31 January 2005 15:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Milk & Kisses is really, really, really wonderful.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 31 January 2005 15:19 (twenty-one years ago)

America gets Bauhaus and Cocteau Twins reunions, meanwhile I was informed via The Guardian Guide that London gets 30th Anniversary Tour visits from Styx and Kansas. Totally unfair !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 31 January 2005 15:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Junkie frigging XL? Puh-leez. I would say: Let's hope he breaks up in a million pieces but that'd just mean a reunion in ten years time. ;-)

I have only heard Heaven Or Las Vegas. Wouldn't say classic, because I have to be in the right mood for her *glossolalia*. But it sure is pretty music.

― stevie nixed (stevie nixed), Monday, 31 January 2005 15:30 (twenty-one years ago)

holy fuck...

― Baaderonixxx le Jeune (Fabfunk), Monday, 31 January 2005 16:06 (twenty-one years ago)

It is official. Hell of a time to be not in California. This is shaping up to be the worst year of my life.

― Leeeter van den Hoogenband (Leee), Monday, 31 January 2005 16:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuck.

There must be UK dates, surely.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Monday, 31 January 2005 16:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I hope so!

― Rob M (Rob M), Monday, 31 January 2005 16:27 (twenty-one years ago)

eleven months pass...

cocaine

mdma

together

― terry lennox. (gareth), Thursday, 5 January 2006 23:27 (twenty years ago)

Drug fiend.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 6 January 2006 03:15 (twenty years ago)

Cocteau Twins, along with King Crimson and David Sylvian (japan/Rain Tree Crow/Nine Horses), rates among my absolute favorite musical acts. My only issue is that I find Liz Fraser's post-Cocteau output a bit underwhelming. "This Love" with Craig Armstrong and her Massive Attack collaborations are notable exceptions. "At Last I am Free" (taken from the 'Stop Me If You Think You've Heard This One Before Compilation), on the other hand, sounds unfocused. Liz posesses, in my opinion, probably the most beautiful voice in music and I think it would be interesting to see here work with some composers/producers that could do her singing justice.

As for possible artistic directions, I could imagine a piece driven by Fripp Soundscape and Frisell Loops with electro-acoustic drum work By Pat Mastelloto, some electronically treated harmonized trumept lines by Nils Petter Molvaer, some excentric fretless bass work by Mick Karn and, beautiful piano/synth treatments courtesy of Ryuichi Sakamoto. I could think of may other possible directions, but this is just off the top of my head. All in all I still think she has the potential to surpass even the greatest cocteau twins moments, given the right environment.

― Cliftonb, Friday, 6 January 2006 05:26 (twenty years ago)

she doesn't seem to be interested in doing much of anything though, oddly enough.

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 6 January 2006 20:52 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...

I JUST RIPPED MILK & KISSES TO MY IPOD THEREFORE I RULE OKEETHNCXBYEEY

― Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Saturday, 31 May 2008 08:29 (eighteen years ago)

underrated album, that

― stephen, Saturday, 31 May 2008 08:39 (eighteen years ago)

The last one I bought was Four Calendar Cafe, but I think I heard Milk & Kisses once. Perhaps I should seek it out again.

― Johnny Fever, Saturday, 31 May 2008 08:49 (eighteen years ago)

"Violaine" is one of my favorite late-period Cocteau songs -- it stands up to the best of Heaven or Las Vegas, easily

― stephen, Saturday, 31 May 2008 09:14 (eighteen years ago)

This is the one Cocteau Twins album I actually had sex to.

― Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Saturday, 31 May 2008 10:29 (eighteen years ago)

intentionally?

― stephen, Saturday, 31 May 2008 14:18 (eighteen years ago)

seven months pass...

Oh my god if Cocteaus could ever forgive you

Meanie!

Tell the X Mal Deutschland fans to go fuck it all.

Cocteaus happiness.
Quisquose.

I'm gonna sic the vinyl on your ass. I'm trying to peaceful, but...
sorry.

EAT THE VINYL

EAT IT

Oh shit

― With Oatmeal Sauce (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Sunday, 4 January 2009 08:34 (seventeen years ago)

six months pass...

In a certain celebrity mailout this appeared...

'The reason the Cocteau Twins' comeback last year didn't happen is because even though Robin Guthrie and Liz Fraser had put their differences to the side (clue - £££££) Liz insisted that her partner be the drummer on the tour. Fine.

All was going well until Robin got pissed, looked through the tour expenses and saw that Liz's partner was getting paid a bit more than the other hired hands. He went batshit mental, rang up Liz and told her that this was outrageous and that he shouldn't even be getting paid AT ALL as Liz was making money and so her partner "didn't need to be paid".

Liz basically said (in indecipherable made-up language no doubt) she couldn't take this and if Robin was kicking off even before the tour started, it could only get worse. So she walked and that was it - reunion over. She apparently walked away from "millions".

― If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate (aldo), Friday, 24 July 2009 13:02 (sixteen years ago)

Good for her.

― Masonic Boom, Friday, 24 July 2009 13:32 (sixteen years ago)

I can understand being annoyed that he's making MORE than others but not getting paid AT ALL? Fuck that.

― Lisa Simpson = a fictional bitch (HI DERE), Friday, 24 July 2009 13:56 (sixteen years ago)

Not getting paid at all, says an anonymous secondhand source.

― Joerg Hi Dere (NickB), Friday, 24 July 2009 14:00 (sixteen years ago)

Yeah there's an obvious grain of salt there but still.

― Lisa Simpson = a fictional bitch (HI DERE), Friday, 24 July 2009 14:02 (sixteen years ago)

Skipping 566 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Thanks, john

― irerisered, Thursday, 1 February 2024 20:56 (two years ago)

never picked up on either of those drum samples, good excuse to play treasure at a very loud volume when I clock out.

rock out with your clock out

― blazin' squab (NickB), Thursday, 1 February 2024 20:58 (two years ago)

two months pass...

https://i.imgur.com/1sNGV7D.jpg

― I painted my teeth (sleeve), Thursday, 11 April 2024 20:45 (two years ago)

Feel like“Slip Away the Chicken Slice” needs a comma.

Slip Away, the Chicken Slice

― Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 11 April 2024 23:36 (two years ago)

I coulda sworn "Bitter Gourd Grasping" was a BBK outtake but I guess not

― I painted my teeth (sleeve), Thursday, 11 April 2024 23:37 (two years ago)

also, ATTN Swen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaOlNfC8_xQ

― I painted my teeth (sleeve), Thursday, 11 April 2024 23:39 (two years ago)

Damn those clips were so laid back. I miss 80s news

― sawdust lagoon, Friday, 12 April 2024 00:05 (two years ago)

two months pass...

As noted on the reissues thread, besides a new reissue of Moon and the Melodies, all their videos are now officially uploaded on their page and in hi-def. Embed was playing a little havoc with the URL so just C/P this: www.youtube.com/@cocteautwinsofficial/videos

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 9 July 2024 18:13 (one year ago)

Thanks

― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 9 July 2024 21:56 (one year ago)

The Cocteau Twins' "Pearly-Dewdrops' Drops" open S3E4 of The Bear.

― mox twelve, Tuesday, 9 July 2024 22:33 (one year ago)

two months pass...

Just saw some digipak editions of Treasure and Heaven or Las Vegas in HMV that I’ve not seen before. Are these remasters? Google is telling me nothing. The 2003 or so remasters are a bit compressed mess so if these sound better I want them bad. Tidal appears to just have the original releases judging by the dates (and sound) so I can’t try before I buy. 4ad website seems next to useless for info. Anyone?

― Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Saturday, 28 September 2024 14:17 (one year ago)

hmm according to discogs, this treasure digipak has the same UPC code as the 2003 remasters: https://www.discogs.com/release/26964548-Cocteau-Twins-Treasure

― brimstead, Saturday, 28 September 2024 14:51 (one year ago)

Grazie

― Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Saturday, 28 September 2024 15:39 (one year ago)

heard "suckling the mender" at h&m today

― groovemaaan, Sunday, 29 September 2024 01:00 (one year ago)

one year passes...

Having a little 1985/86 EP flirtation these last few days, such a strong period, suits the change in season too. The Love's Easy Tears EP alone is fkn incredible.

― Maresn3st, Thursday, 30 October 2025 20:31 (seven months ago)

so great

― sleeve, Thursday, 30 October 2025 20:35 (seven months ago)

(all of those EPs)

― sleeve, Thursday, 30 October 2025 20:36 (seven months ago)

Yeah that’s peak Cocteaus for me, the first of theirs I ever found in a record store was “Tiny Dynamine”

― assert (matttkkkk), Thursday, 30 October 2025 21:13 (seven months ago)

two months pass...

found this posted on Reddit, it is astonishing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLHzzH4IJ70

― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Friday, 16 January 2026 02:28 (four months ago)

i saw that one a white back too! it rules

― cam'ron winter (m bison), Friday, 16 January 2026 02:36 (four months ago)

Love that.

― Chewshabadoo, Saturday, 17 January 2026 19:28 (four months ago)

four months pass...

https://shop.4ad.com/merch/596502-cocteau-twins-heaven-or-las-vegas-football-shirt/related

― koogs, Monday, 1 June 2026 09:01 (six days ago)

Very tentatively shares link with elder daughter…

― Michael Jones, Monday, 1 June 2026 12:10 (six days ago)

I think the Bisch Bosch shirt is pretty funny. who doesn't want an overpriced football jersey that commemorates Scott Walker's most impenetrable album?

― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Monday, 1 June 2026 14:36 (six days ago)

lol i was tempted by the scott walker one

― nxd, Monday, 1 June 2026 14:37 (six days ago)

Sadly The Fall were never on 4AD, so there isn't a Sparta FC t-shirt. £110 seems a bit steep.

"Come on, I will show you how I will change /
when I punch a donkey on the streets of Galway"

Today I learned that a donkey paralysed with curare can actually be kept alive via artificial respiration:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curare

"In England, together with a doctor, Ben Collins Brodie, he administered it to a donkey, which collapsed and stopped breathing within minutes. Swiftly Brodie cut the donkey’s windpipe and they inserted a bellows and pumped. The donkey sat up. Two hours were spent like this until the poison wore off and the donkey recovered. After its experience, it was put to pasture for services to medicine."

― Ashley Pomeroy, Tuesday, 2 June 2026 18:12 (five days ago)

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