Jorge Ben Jor S/D

Which Veloso are you basing this judgment on?

So--which version of C.V.? All of them, really--I find his voice "beautiful" but inexpressive; he's so concerned with "singing beautifully" that nothing much comes across most of the time (for me, at least). A good example would be the two versions of "Tradicao" on Gil's "Realce" and Gil/Veloso's "Tropicalia 2." The orig. version, by Gil, is maybe a big cheesy--slick Fender Rhodes sound and all--but the vocal has so much character. Whereas the 1993 version, sung by Veloso, and with a really beautiful acoustic guitar arrangement, done more slowly, is nice, but his vocal just expresses...nothing... to me, it lacks character. Gil is more soulful, in my opinion.

I find this affects all his work, at least to my ears. His guitar playing is competent but again, it's just a watered-down version of João's. So I guess it's a matter of taste--I've seen C.V. live, though, and enjoyed it immensely.

Or, for that matter, any of Gil's late-60s/early-70s self-titled albums, which might be better than CV's at that? Some of the weird stuff on Side 2 of Gil's 1969 album out-collage anything being done anywhere; and that's on a record that also includes "Aquele Abraco," which might be the most beautiful pop melody, maybe, ever?

Jorge Ben, though, to un-hijack the thread, doesn't get enough credit for being slightly subversively experimental in his own Flamengo-loving heavy-drinking common-man way. Discuss?

Here's his breakdown: http://www.slipcue.com/music/brazil/ben.html

-- Amateurist

Yeah--I like it, mostly.

Gil: I really love "Aquele Abraço"--what a great song. "Refazenda" too.

I don't know why no one has put out a good two-disc Gil best-of in this country, with translations.

don't really know that much about Jorge Ben beyond "Africa Brasil"--I own this "Personalidade" best-of on Jorge Ben (Jor) but I've never really been able to get into it, seems mostly unformed and crude to me, but I'm probably just u.f. and c. myself.

Sacudin Ben Samba - 'nice' early album. never excited me that much but also never turned it off.

A Tábua de Esmeralda - probably my favorite of his albums. super duper emotional. at one point it sounds like he's about to cry as he's singing.

i have a few more on vinyl that i don't remember the titles to and can't find the covers to remember, but they are all very good. only complaint is, as someone said upthread, they get a bit samey.

I just received the Força Bruta album which they were pushing at Dusty Groove, but now I see that it is on the um, Dusty Groove label and am a little afraid to put it on.

i dunno. 1970. i bet it's amazing.

Why? That's one of his classic albums.

Actually, I know one tune from the comps, "Mulher brasiliera," and I like that one so we'll see how it goes.

OK, I took a break after the end of disc two of my other purchase, the Benny Moré box, put this on and yeah it's pretty cool. Funky soul, kinda like Bill Withers, I guess. The leadoff track I recognize from a comp too, "Oba lá vem ela."

Ooh it's the top seller at Other Music in NY and Chicago Reader's Peter Margasak is blogging about it. Slipcue.com suggests it's a bit mellow but still gives it the thumbs up.

http://blogs.chicagoreader.com/post-no-bills/2007/07/12/dusty-groove-gets-groovier/

JaXon:
>does anyone have a clue which album the song Comanche from the Black Rio comp comes from? a google/amg/discogs search turns up nothing.

Jorge Ben - Negro e Lindo

thank you, one year later.

It looks like Dusty Groove will be reissuing Ben's eponymous 1969 LP — Rogerio Duprat-directed, with "Take It Easy, My Brother Charles" — in August. I'm excited!

was africa brasil reissued on vinyl? is there a 12" or 45 out there of 'taj mahal'?

awesome!

can't believe what africa brasil is selling for now... $100 or up. somebody please reissue this thing.

a banda do ze pretinho from 1978 is pretty slamming, btw

I've been listening to Jorge Ben for a few years now but until this year I realized how important his music is for me. For albums I'd recommend I'd go with his early 70's albums:

Jorge Ben (1969)
Forca Bruta (1970)
A tabua de esmeralda (1974)
Africa Brasil (1976)

He is very prolific (last time I checked he had 35 albums under his belt) but I recommend starting with any of these 4 albums first, as it captures Ben at his most wildly inventive and features many of his catchiest songs.

O Bidu Silencio No Brooklyn (1967) is pretty glorious too, though the sound quality isn't great. I would add Ben (1972), which includes what I think is his first recording of "Taj Mahal."

I bought Africa Brasil brand new from Amazon.co.uk about 18 months ago; it's not going for £60+ second hand from a seller. Fucking hell.

Anyway, if you like Africa Brazil you should probbaly try the new Seu Jorge album, America Brasil O Disco, which is some kind of (very good) tribute / ideological/aesthetic follow-up.

ya i hope dusty groove re-releases o bidu with better sound. anyone seen their new JB reissue?

'O Bidu' is great too. I've been obsessed with the gil and ben acoustic set 'Gil e Jorge' for a while. Some misses, a lot of hits.

x-post

O Bidu Silencio No Brooklyn (1967) is pretty glorious too, though the sound quality isn't great.

I love this one too. It's weird -- I'd only heard mp3s of the CD which had that overly-reverbed sound. Then I bought a copy of the US pressing (mono, on Kapp/4 Corners) off ebay and it sounds completely different: clean backing tracks, and his voice clearly mixed but far louder than the instruments (unlike the cd where it kind of all blends together). Maybe there's different mixes floating around, or maybe that CD release had done some fakey-stereo remixing. Either way, it's a great album and should definitely be made available again.

can't believe what africa brasil is selling for now... $100 or up

Wow, I had no idea. Does it matter what the pressing is? (Mine is Philips Brazil, 1976, catalog # 6349 187. Weird sleeve -- cardboard, but really thin with no spine, like some 12-inch singles used to have.)

Anyway, great album. I've almost never DJed in a bar without played "Ponta De Lanca Africano (Umbabarauma)." Other faves (probably fairly predictably) are "Taj Mahal" and "Xica Da Silva" (the latter of which Boney M do a good cover version of, by the way.)

it seems that even the recent CD reissues are selling for close to that price? I bought it new for £8 only a couple of years ago, what's going on?

Besides Africa Brasil I've only heard a couple of his mid-60s albums, which didn't make any particular impact on me. Have to delve more.

A Tábua de Esmeralda - probably my favorite of his albums. super duper emotional. at one point it sounds like he's about to cry as he's singing.

Yeah, that record is really beautiful!

even the recent CD reissues are selling for close to that price?

Not here (not even close), though this site has a Japanese pressing at $280 (Brazil closer to $50.00):

http://www.musicstack.com/album/ben,jorge/africa-brazil_-_philips

(Japanese pressing is a CD, actually. And one LP is priced at $20.80. I never know what to believe with these things.)

Reading about 50% of this thread and scanning the rest I can see that nobody has really given Jorge's early 80s period it's proper props. Just heard the Bem-Vinda Amizade LP and if you're into slick new-wavey "ethnic funk" (i.e. "balearic"), this will totally whet your whistle.

Jorge Ben's 80s period (when he became Jorge Ben Jor) is most known here in Brazil for "W.Brasil", a track with references about an ad agency, drug dealers, Tim Maia and his usual nonsense. It was sorta comeback, but the commercial success of this tune was so huge that people kind of forgot all his brilliant albums from the 60s and the 70s. He was the "W.Brasil" guy.

you make me sad.

I need some info about the different versions of "Taj Mahal" that are out there. IIRC, I have some 80's-90's live versions, a medleyed version on piano, the Africa Brasil version, and something that sounds like it predates all of them and which has one of the most FEROCIOUS percussion breakdowns I have ever heard in my life. I can trace the source records on all the other versions, but I can't find any concrete documentation about this one at all.

Taj Mahal later recorded a song called "Jorge Ben." True!

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Monday, February 10, 2003 12:45 PM (7 years ago)

lol 7 years ago, but this HAS to be the cut off of the Tropical LP (1977) (and that breakdown is massive as fukk)

the song "georgia" off said LP is str8 fire 100% beautiful

also i want to say that jorge ben in the 70s rivals stevie wonder in just releasing a slew of the best shit ever made

can't believe what africa brasil is selling for now... $100 or up

Amazon still lists it new for that price. Even used some are selling it for $75

anybody tempted to pay $100 for africa brasil should pick up the salve jorge 14 (!) CD box set

1. Samba Esquema Novo (1963)
2. Sacudin Ben Samba (1964)
3. Ben é Samba Bom (1964)
4. Big Ben (1965)
5. Jorge Ben (1969)
6. Força Bruta (1970)
7. Negro é lindo (1971)
8. Ben (1972)
9. Jorge Ben 10 Anos Depois (1973)
10. A Tábua de Esmeralda (1974)
11. Solta o Pavão (1975)
12. Gil & Jorge - Ogum Xangô (1975)
13. África Brasil (1976)
14. Salve, Jorge! Raridades e Inéditas - Duplo (1963-1976) (double CD with rarities)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/Salve_Jorge.jpg

:O

why is christmas so far away, fuck you jesus

I can't believe someone had to post the contents of the Boxset for someone to mention Solta o Pavão (1975). It's nestled right there in between A Tabua and Africa Brasil, so it's no major departure...I dig it front to back.

negro e lindo is the one from his ultra classic run that i've yet to add to my collection proper. the muhammad ali tribute is alltime.

i heard solta o pavão in passing once and when i was told what it was it just seemed like, "yeah this is predictably badass in that case." still haven't procured a copy of it, for whatever reason.

i love jorge ben so much, i would fall to pieces if i ever saw him perform live

I saw him live in London in the early 00s. A few times he did that medley thing where he appeared to think 'yeah I can chalk off a few favourites here', which to me sounded a bit cheesy and 'Las Vegas years'. But he was charming and it was of course amazing to see this icon on stage.

A few times he did that medley thing where he appeared to think 'yeah I can chalk off a few favourites here', which to me sounded a bit cheesy and 'Las Vegas years'.

That's a pretty good summary of the entire "10 Anos Depois" album. I thought it'd be fun too have all the jams on 1 record, but they don't do justice to the originals at all.

(for my money, Força Bruta is peak JB)

The hits set his audience want to hear [or what he thinks they want to hear] and the golden period in the late 60s/early 70s including Força Bruta, the self-titled one, A Tabua de Esmeralda, Solta.., etc seem to be two different worlds.

i love jorge ben so much, i would fall to pieces if i ever saw him perform live

I'd say Solta o Pavão is the most slept-on classic Ben album of at least several.

― Dexter Holland's Opus (Deflatormouse),

its got some heaters for sure, "cuidado com o bulldog", "para ouvir no radio", "dorothy" top my list

Never even heard of that one! Will have to give it a spin soon.

Does anyone know what the deal is with Samba Nova and Tropical?

Ben has been in my personal pantheon for decades. After finally filling in some earlier gaps (Big Ben and Negro É Lindo are both so great) in my listening and realizing he could basically do no wrong for an impressively long time, I decided to finally venture past África Brasil. I had tried Salve Simpatia once, didn't love it, and decided AB was a red line.* Anyway, I was surprised to learn that there are two albums between AB and SS, released on Island in the US, but I've never seen them anywhere and they aren't on streaming afaict (I listened to a few seconds of one of them on youtube but the sound quality was painfully bad). Something I read said they used to be the easiest JB albums to find in North America. Generally speaking the uneven availability of his music has been a crime against humanity.

* I've corrected this misperception today by listening to A Banda Do Zé Pretinho, which is great. I'll have to revisit Salve too.

Curious if anyone has any strong 80s + beyond recommendations. There's a description of Bem Vinda Amizade upthread as "balearic" that is intriguing enough that I'll try that soon — anything else worth a listen?

hey rob, gotta admit my late-70s and beyond knowledge doesn't exist. you asked specifically about samba nova though, which i do know: it's a compilation for north america/island records. it's a great way to acquire that material if that's the only way you can get it, but it’s not a proper album.

i don't mean to be tacky and i'm definitely not trying to "promote" my youtube channel, but i did a short thing about the jorge ben stuff i have on physical with a highlight on samba nova if you want to have a look at it.

thanks Austin! good to know about Samba Novo... I wonder if Tropical is also a comp? would explain why they've remained in the past.

ooh I'm very jealous of your Big Ben cd, I wish Dusty Groove had been able to do a full reissue campaign or something. I used to live across the street from their store in Chicago, and while I spent as much money as I could there lol, I am haunted by releases I thought I'd eventually get around to but didn't. In particular I wish I'd known how priceless the dirt cheap manufactured-in-Brazil CDs they had back then (early to mid 00s) would end up being.

re: tropical, m bison otm as usual

I need some info about the different versions of "Taj Mahal" that are out there. IIRC, I have some 80's-90's live versions, a medleyed version on piano, the Africa Brasil version, and something that sounds like it predates all of them and which has one of the most FEROCIOUS percussion breakdowns I have ever heard in my life. I can trace the source records on all the other versions, but I can't find any concrete documentation about this one at all.

Taj Mahal later recorded a song called "Jorge Ben." True!

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Monday, February 10, 2003 12:45 PM (7 years ago)

lol 7 years ago, but this HAS to be the cut off of the Tropical LP (1977) (and that breakdown is massive as fukk)

― david foster ballaz (m bison), Saturday, March 13, 2010 8:39 PM (fifteen years ago) bookmarkflaglink

the song "georgia" off said LP is str8 fire 100% beautiful

― david foster ballaz (m bison), Saturday, March 13, 2010 8:40 PM (fifteen years ago) bookmarkflaglink

Which version?

― it's not a fedora, it's a trill bae (m bison), Wednesday, July 9, 2014 2:36 PM (eleven years ago) bookmarkflaglink

I recall grabbing a short one from a comp I think

― curmudgeon, Thursday, July 10, 2014 4:33 AM (eleven years ago) bookmarkflaglink

man that doesnt help there are like 5 versions of taj mahal

― it's not a fedora, it's a trill bae (m bison), Thursday, July 10, 2014 4

It was from Puro Suingue

nice

Ok then otm bison, is Tropical all original or a comp or what?

alright if this description is correct, then I get it (and will listen to it on youtube at some point, sounds fantastic):

https://www.jazzmessengers.com/en/102730/jorge-ben/tropical-colored-lp

• coloured yellow vinyl edition
Tropical is Jorge Ben’s fifteenth album, a “muscular” mix of previously unreleased material and rearranged covers such as “Taj Mahal” and “País tropical”. The openness to more Pop, more Western arrangements, foreshadows his future work oriented towards the stereotypical World-Dance of the 1980s.

Tropical was originally intended for the market outside Brazil, and was not distributed there until 1977. A very fine confirming his immense talent and ability to adapt to the zeitgeist by intelligently breathing new life into “old” tunes that have been listened to over and over again. An era defining recording from Brazil with a unique groove and infectious energy.

PERSONNEL:

Jorge Ben - (lead vocals, guitar)
Chris Mercer - (tenor sax)
Barry St. John, Joy Yates, Liza Strike - (backing vocals)
João Roberto Vandaluz - (piano, organ)
Ann Odell - (synthesizer)
Eduardo Magalhaes De Carvalho - (bass)
Gustavo Schroeter - (drums, percussion)
João Batista Pereira - (percussion)

bem vinda amizade is a classic IMO. oé oé, luiz wagner guitarreiro, todo dia era dia de indio (that got famous with baby do brasil). cant go wrong

ok yeah Bem-Vinda Amizade is excellent! I can both hear and not hear the "balearic" descriptor. It's not as breezy as I expected based on that. tbf I'm never sure I understand what balearic signifies, but I thought that meant it would sound more languid like Veloso's Bicho or late 70s Gil. The 80s synth & production touches are def there — and if you're allergic to that, this probably won't work for you — but it's so rhythmic and hard at time. It's quintessentially Ben, but I gotta wonder if David Byrne heard this when it came out

hey rob if you want to trade anything for that big ben, drop me a message via ilx mail.

aw thanks Austin, that's nice of you. I live in Canada so tbh it may not be worth our while, but I'll send you a message

been listening to Bem-Vinda Amizade a lot recently - thanks thread!

any thoughts on this lovely comp?

https://www.discogs.com/release/3016785-Jorge-Ben-A-Arte-De-Jorge-Ben

still feel like I'm just scratching the surface but this helps as a gateway

the whole "A Arte De" series is good, i have Baden Powell's and treasure it

That looks like a great selection, sleeve. Following any of the songs you like to their original albums would be very rewarding of course, but if I'm not mistaken it stops around 1972, so if you haven't heard A Tábua de Esmeralda, that would be delightful new territory.

that album is all killer no filler, gorgeous stuff