Let us now praise Fairport Convention's "Liege & Lief"

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (202 of them)
does anyone want copies of the old, non-remastered "unhalfbricking" and "what we did on our holidays"? i'm looking to sell them.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 19:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

vinyl? i could use unhalfbricking on vinyl actually....

j fail (cenotaph), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 19:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

no cd.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 19:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

I love 'Farewell Farewell', but was shocked to discover that the melody is totally stolen from an olde English folk song - Anne Briggs does a version of it called 'Willie O'Winsbury'

Andrew L (Andrew L), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 19:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

it's actually a Scottish folk song, Child # 100.

amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 19:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

Folk doesn't 'steal' you capitalist pig.

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

'liege and lief' is a wonderful record. though I must admit it took a lot of listening to 'holidays' and 'unhalfbricking' before I really warmed to it.

the song 'sloth' from 'full house' fits nicely at the end of one side of a C90 containing 'holidays'. 'sloth' is probably my favorite song by them ever.

one of the bands that's made my life better.

jon leidecker, Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

More than somewhat over-rated. The original songs are good but the Trad Arrs are on the dull side: "Matty Groves" and "Tam Lin" being especially turgid. I prefer Steeleye Span's "Hark the Village Wait".

Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 12:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

I love 'Farewell Farewell', but was shocked to discover that the melody is totally stolen from an olde English folk song - Anne Briggs does a version of it called 'Willie O'Winsbury'

Well, to be pedantic about it, Richard Thompson stole the tune from a version of "Willie O'Winsbury" sung by Andy Irvine on the first Sweeney's Men album - the problem being that Irvine sang the WRONG melody. So the melody isn't actually "Willie O'Winsbury" at all.

it's what english folk song does best - dark, black songs rather than celtic fiddle-de-dee stuff

If you think that "English" folk music does "dark and black songs best" then I suggest you haven't heard anything like as much Scottish and Irish folk music as you should have to be making such judgements. And anyway given that the folk music of the British Isles is all intermingled and given that that song you hear on a Fairport album, or a Martin Carthy album, or a Nic Jones album, is just as likely to be Scottish or Irish as English then generalisations are not a good idea.

Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 13:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

three years pass...
I really have officially pretty much flipped over this thing. I've known who Sandy Denny was for years but never thought I'd "get it". I do think this album does get a bit tiring towards the very end, but this is a small quibble and I can't tell you how many times this weekend I've shed tears at the sound of that woman's powerful voice.

I only decided to try this after hearing an interview with Joe Boyd (producer) promoting his new book. It was on BBC I think. He said that for awhile in the late 60's all these Brit bands were trying to emulate US influences, and he said that then this album came out by the Band called Big Pink or whatever it was (I wrote it down) and it was just so American sounding, he said, and so good, that the Brit bands backed down and went to back to the musical roots of their own land. And so he mentioned "Liege & Lief" next and I wrote it down and I've played it several times this weekend, absolutely delighted.

Just call me a goddamn lifelong Anglophile.

Bimble, Sunday, 22 April 2007 20:24 (seventeen years ago) link

If even one person would post and tell me I'm not alone it would mean a lot to me.

Bimble, Sunday, 22 April 2007 20:27 (seventeen years ago) link

You want to get all of Sandy Denny's stuff too then, and that Fotheringay record - it's pretty much all great. I like it better than the Fairport stuff, on the whole. Liege and Lief is terrific, though.

Keith, Sunday, 22 April 2007 20:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Yes please! Tell me where to start with this woman's career!!

I also think about how Peel loved Faiport...and how the mouse toy thing he used to wear on his belt buckle was made by Sandy for him. Thinking of Peel makes me cry, too. So it's a cry-fest all around.

Bimble, Sunday, 22 April 2007 20:33 (seventeen years ago) link

I want to see the English countryside next year, really really I want to go back once in my life...I promise, before I die...

Bimble, Sunday, 22 April 2007 20:34 (seventeen years ago) link

all these Brit bands were trying to emulate US influences, and he said that then this album came out by the Band called Big Pink or whatever it was (I wrote it down) and it was just so American sounding, he said, and so good, that the Brit bands backed down and went to back to the musical roots of their own land.

Which is funny, since most of The Band were from Canada. But so is the archetypal American rocker Neil Young.

Hurting 2, Sunday, 22 April 2007 20:36 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, I pretty much hate Peel, except for the toilet roll adverts, but I guess with Sandy Denny, just start with the North Star Grassman and the Ravens and work your way forward...

xx-post.

Keith, Sunday, 22 April 2007 20:36 (seventeen years ago) link

Yes, you are right, thanks for your contribution, Hurting. I didn't understand that before.

Oh don't hate Peel...he didn't always play great music but...okay look let's not argue.

Bimble, Sunday, 22 April 2007 20:38 (seventeen years ago) link

Sure! It's not really the place for it, here...

Keith, Sunday, 22 April 2007 20:39 (seventeen years ago) link

just start with the North Star Grassman and the Ravens and work your way forward...

Shall do and report back, thank you.

Bimble, Sunday, 22 April 2007 20:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Although...wait a minute...Robbie Robertson was in the Band wasn't he? I know he is Canadian, right?

Bimble, Sunday, 22 April 2007 20:42 (seventeen years ago) link

you are a character

RJG, Sunday, 22 April 2007 20:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Yes I am, but I already know you are one who has held me in contempt in the past, RJG. So I hold you in suspicion, and be careful what you say.

Bimble, Sunday, 22 April 2007 21:14 (seventeen years ago) link

not a v good character

RJG, Monday, 23 April 2007 09:14 (seventeen years ago) link

Liege and Lief is amazing - esp., "Matty Groves".

o. nate, Monday, 23 April 2007 14:57 (seventeen years ago) link

i liked this a lot when i first bought it, but listening to it again recently the only stuff i can really get into is "come all ye" and "farewell farewell" - unhalfbricking is about sixty times better

pretzel walrus, Monday, 23 April 2007 15:11 (seventeen years ago) link

"Unhalfbricking" is pretty great, but I prefer "Liege".

o. nate, Monday, 23 April 2007 15:15 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah i guess the trad songs just don't do a whole lot for me - thompson's guitar is a lot cooler on unhalfbricking and i think the folk fusion stuff on liege is way too respectful (read: boring/academic) for my taste

pretzel walrus, Monday, 23 April 2007 15:24 (seventeen years ago) link

all these Brit bands were trying to emulate US influences, and he said that then this album came out by the Band called Big Pink or whatever it was (I wrote it down) and it was just so American sounding, he said, and so good, that the Brit bands backed down and went to back to the musical roots of their own land.

Which is funny, since most of The Band were from Canada. But so is the archetypal American rocker Neil Young.

-- Hurting 2, Sunday, 22 April 2007 21:36 (Yesterday)

To borrow Greil Marcus's argument in Mystery Train, it the fact that they saw America with a certain degree of distance, that allowed them to synthesis its musical styles so successfully. And Levon Helm gave them their direct connection to southern roots.

Of course there's an element of romanticism to this idea - The Band grew up on American music and toured there with Ronnie Hawkins.

But certainly in connecting with roots music on Big Pink, the Band inspired roots rockers around the world.

Back to Liege and Lief. Incredible album. I always play Matty Groves when I DJ. The Hutching Mattacks rhythm section are actually kinda [i]funky[/]. Also see Shirley Collins & The Albion Band.

Stew, Monday, 23 April 2007 15:25 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't know how anyone can resist Matty Grove and Tam Lin. In general, I have a hard time with the rocked-up-versions-of-Childe-ballads concept, but the stuff on Liege and Leaf is so well done, and so exhuberant and fun, that it gets a giant pass.

I was listening to this last week as it happens.

I guess I have to trust Boyd for the notion that this was a response to The Band, but I see Fairport (and its semi-twin, Pentangle) as engaged in a fundamentally different project from The Band. The Band was making up a kind of timeless archetypal American music -- I always associate them somewhat with Gabriel Garcia Marquez and his invention of Macondo. FC was taking actual songs from a distant era (and writing other songs that sounded just like them) and doing contemporary arrangements that preserved some of the old elements.

Vornado, Monday, 23 April 2007 15:36 (seventeen years ago) link

That's a very good point Vornado. I suppose you could argue that the Band, with Dylan, arranged and rewrote old folk songs on the Basement Tapes (see Marcus's Invisible Republic for an exploration of source material), but their approach was much less deliberate than Fairport's.

Stew, Monday, 23 April 2007 15:55 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, I guess I see what Fairport was doing on "Liege" as having probably more in common with what the Byrds were doing with acoustic Dylan and the Book of Ecclesiastes in the early 60s than with what the Band & Dylan were doing with Americana in the mid to late 60s - ie., more of a deliberate "modernization" - pushing the envelope musically in terms of arrangements while simultaneously looking back in time for inspiration lyrically and melodically.

o. nate, Monday, 23 April 2007 16:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Jon Savage said "they could brood like no other band" at this period.
They do that great on here. I hear the link between folkrock and Beefheart in the long coda to Matty Groves. They cook up a wicked brew in Tam Lin. I agree there are moments of reserve, of greeness, but that's much better than the professional pubfolkers they soon became
(i like Full House though.)

Frogman Henry, Monday, 23 April 2007 16:21 (seventeen years ago) link

Yes, obviously The Basement Tapes was a lot closer to Fairport Convention than Music From Big Pink. But Dylan didn't choose to release that stuff until much later, and The Band never did anything like it as an official group product. And even then, the stuff on The Basement Tapes was basically one generation old, although it felt like a looooong generation at the time, and Dylan had gotten his start in the world among people who believed they would spend their whole careers reinterpreting that music. (Now that I think of it, Joan Baez was doing Childe Ballads and faux- early in her career, too.)

Tam Lin is about fairies and knights. I don't know exactly when it came into the world (and I doubt it's as old as it pretends to be), but it was at least a couple hundred years old when Fairport Convention recorded it.

Anyway, I see FC as a logical progression from The Weavers or The Kingston Trio (both of whom I love plenty) -- faithful reinterpretation and homage, with contemporary arrangements and instrumentation. The Band (and Dylan, in John Wesley Harding and elsewhere) were on another plane altogether: making up something that had never exactly existed, because it should have.

Vornado, Monday, 23 April 2007 16:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Yes, obviously The Basement Tapes was a lot closer to Fairport Convention than Music From Big Pink. But Dylan didn't choose to release that stuff until much later, and The Band never did anything like it as an official group product.

Actually the Basement Tapes were being passed around from band to band years before the official release. That's how Fairport was able to do a cover of "Million Dollar Bash" on Unhalfbricking. It's also the reason why songs from the Basement Tapes appear on dozens and dozens of records between '68 and '71.

Also, in terms of Big Pink influencing Liege-era Fairport, I think Fairport heard a record that sounded like it really caputured a lost America, one that was rooted in American soil, so to speak. Whether that was really the case wasn't too terribly important. A lot of people at the time, thought Big Pink could have been made in pre-depression America. Of course, it doesn't really sound that way now, but back then, it was something many reviews pointed out. And so, the record inspired Fairport to create a sound that was equally rooted -- but rooted in British soil. The result is something different than Big Pink, but I definitely see how Big Pink could've played this role. Also, like Big Pink, there is something very mythological about Liege, which other folk groups never captured. It's more than just reworking old folk tunes, it's about creating a vibe or fable through sight and sound. One that can feel old and new all at the same time.

In his new book, Boyd also points out how, Fairport wanted to stop sounding American after hearing Big Pink because they knew they were never going to sound as American as the Band. Plus, he says Mattacks was obsessed with Levon's drum sound on Big Pink. This is something I totally hear: Liege has a very woody, almost muffled sound, something that made Big Pink really stand out in the age of psychedelia.

QuantumNoise, Monday, 23 April 2007 17:44 (seventeen years ago) link

I prefer unhalfbricking.

Talking of which, does any London ilm-er know whereabouts in Wimbledon the striking cover was photographed (Sandy Denny's parents house)? I'd love to see the location 40 years on.

Bob Six, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 22:18 (seventeen years ago) link

I think that Fairport's tackling of olde English stuff might also have actually been a reaction against the over-Americanization of rock, too -- like at the time, so many British dudes wanted to play the blooze and sound like Muddy Waters. Liege & Lief struck me as their attempt to put traditional English music back at the forefront. Though Thompson could certainly play the blues (see the Guitar/Vocal version of Mr. Lacey for proof) Maybe that's all obvious though. Hell of an album, anyway. Love it from start to finish.

tylerw, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 22:30 (seventeen years ago) link

I bought Unhalfbricking, yes I did.

And it's making me turn into a gypsy dwarf.

Bimble, Saturday, 28 April 2007 02:21 (seventeen years ago) link

I think Unhalfbricking might be my favorite, sometimes. By coincidence, yesterday I bought Richard & Linda Thompson's Pour Down Like Silver which is just killer.

ian, Saturday, 28 April 2007 03:32 (seventeen years ago) link

the whole sufi spiritual vibe on Pour Down Like Silver is so beautiful.
there's a track on the live album, HOUSE FULL, where they play an old reel or whatever at such an insane speed that Mattacks' hands must have been a bloody stump at the end of it. i usually don't really go for the "hey, look how fast we can play" approach, but the level of musicianship from that lineup is astounding

gershy, Saturday, 28 April 2007 04:59 (seventeen years ago) link

I almost got the freakin' BBC SESSIONS! WHY DIDN'T I DO IT???

Bimble, Saturday, 28 April 2007 05:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Wow, these really kill me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTHgr19CaRk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTXGRgA-9Zw

Bimble, Saturday, 28 April 2007 19:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Hey, you missed this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rd_gMrmf6g&mode=related&search=

Keith, Saturday, 28 April 2007 20:38 (seventeen years ago) link

Actually I didn't miss that one at all...I just found it after the other two and started crying (I'm Mumble67 on You Tube) then I decided I better get out of the house for awhile. :)

I started thinking about Kate Bush more, too...you know there is a Kate Bush song where she mentions Denny in the lyrics? It's really hard for me to say Denny is better than Kate but then Kate doesn't have this tendency to make me cry the minute I hear her voice.

Bimble, Sunday, 29 April 2007 01:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Also I love that comment someone made on that YouTube Denny link - "Annie Lennox can go wash dishes" HAHAHAHA!

Bimble, Sunday, 29 April 2007 01:07 (seventeen years ago) link

eight months pass...

Talking of which, does any London ilm-er know whereabouts in Wimbledon the striking cover was photographed (Sandy Denny's parents house)? I'd love to see the location 40 years on.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a82/bobbysixer/unhalfbricking.jpg

Arthur Road, Wimbledon - apparently. But I couldn't find any recent photos - fans are so lazy these days.

Bob Six, Sunday, 13 January 2008 12:06 (sixteen years ago) link

nine months pass...

Let us praise it, indeed. I just soak up this kind of old-style British stuff like a sponge.

It's hrd bein a man, livn' in a garbage pai (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Monday, 27 October 2008 06:55 (sixteen years ago) link

Come on, who is awake who knows this album? Speak now.

It's hrd bein a man, livn' in a garbage pai (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Monday, 27 October 2008 07:07 (sixteen years ago) link

get the "new " fotheringay joint that just came out
great sandy stuff on it!

velko, Monday, 27 October 2008 07:14 (sixteen years ago) link

^yeah totally looking forward to getting the fotheringay thing when my emusic downloads reset

thereminimum chips (electricsound), Monday, 27 October 2008 07:23 (sixteen years ago) link

Playing the rec right now thanks to your revival, Bimble!

Myonga Vön Bontee, Monday, 27 October 2008 07:34 (sixteen years ago) link

One of the great rock holy grails is a recording of (parts of) Fairport jamming with (parts of) Zeppelin at the Troubadour in Los Angeles in 1970.

"September 4, 1970 - Today, after playing to 20,000 fans at the L.A. Forum, Led Zeppelin appear with Fairport Convention at the Troubadour in L.A. to a crowd of only a few hundred. The bands share instruments. Richard Thompson, guitarist for Fairport Convention plays Page's Les Paul, but FC's drummer, Dave Mattacks is hesitant to let Bonham play his drums because of Bonham's reputation as a very powerful drummer. Bonham sits down at the kit and steps on the bass pedal. Mattack watches in horror as his bass drum flies forward a half a foot. After the jam session which lasted almost three hours, the drum heads need a good changing and the toms need a good tuning. After the jam session, Bonham retires to Barney's Beanery, an after-hours bar, where he engages in a drinking contest with Janis Joplin."

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 14 March 2018 03:38 (six years ago) link

Denny Thompson, wasn't he in Pentangle?

― Buff Jeckley (Tom D.), Monday, March 12, 2018 2:53 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

TS: Denny Lethargy VS. Denny Vertigo

omar little, Wednesday, 14 March 2018 03:43 (six years ago) link

five months pass...

Which is the best box set to get for a beginner like myself? No Best Of crap, just album collections. Do some have important bonus tracks that others don't.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 9 September 2018 14:45 (six years ago) link

Just go for the Five Classic Albums CD box set for ~$15. A good place to begin. Covers the first five albums, which is the Richard Thompson and Sandy Denny years (except Rising for the Moon), no bonus tracks but I wouldn't go down that rabbit hole until you're more devoted.

com rad erry red flag (f. hazel), Sunday, 9 September 2018 16:56 (six years ago) link

Is there notable bonus tracks on any releases?

Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 9 September 2018 17:10 (six years ago) link

Heyday has a lot of bonus tracks on the reissue

sleeve, Sunday, 9 September 2018 17:14 (six years ago) link

Liege & Lief reissues have included great outtakes like Sir Patrick Spens (w/ Sandy on vocals), Quiet Joys of Brotherhood and Ballad of Easy Rider.

tylerw, Sunday, 9 September 2018 17:14 (six years ago) link

some, sure. b-sides and outtakes, the liege and lief outtakes "sir patrick spens" and "quiet joys of brotherhood" are nice. the meat is still on the original records.

"heyday" is a bbc sessions record - there's now a box of that material, and honestly i'd recommend it strongly. fairport convention were one of the greatest bbc session bands; plenty of tunes, particularly from the "what we did on our holidays" era, not represented elsewhere.

milkshake duck george bernard shaw (rushomancy), Sunday, 9 September 2018 17:24 (six years ago) link

yeah, most of their first ten albums have been re-released on CD at least twice with bonus tracks and sometimes entire extra discs. there are a lot of good bonus tracks!

com rad erry red flag (f. hazel), Sunday, 9 September 2018 17:26 (six years ago) link

Do wish there was more stuff avaialble from them live from the Thompson years. NOt sure how Live the BBC sessions are, assume they are far more one-take than an official studio set would be.
BUt hearing things like the Bouton Rouge set and the stories about Thompson jamming with Hendrix and his endless invention and ability to improvise just means would be so great to have concrete evidence.

Stevolende, Sunday, 9 September 2018 17:38 (six years ago) link

I think I'll go for the individual releases. Don't want to buy stuff twice or search for digital files if I really like the albums.

And thanks for the tip on Heyday.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 9 September 2018 18:28 (six years ago) link

one month passes...

https://routepublishing.wordpress.com/tag/what-we-did-instead-of-holidays/

new Clinton Heylin book on the extended fairports family. & the offshoots of at least the original line up.
Not sure if Trader Horne are covered since not seeing any mention but some of their stuff at least is good.

Stevolende, Monday, 22 October 2018 17:06 (six years ago) link

The original one-disc xp Heyday is really cool, despite scruffy sound quality, which can often also be found on my studio LPs and CDs of Fairport and 70s Richard & Linda.
Haven't heard Tree With Roots yet, though it's waiting patiently on Spotify: seems like a handy round-up of all(?) prev. released Dylan covers, from FC, Fotheringay, and Denny solo LPs. Track list[ etc:
https://www.folkradio.co.uk/2018/06/a-tree-with-roots-fairport-convention-and-the-songs-of-bob-dylan/

dow, Monday, 22 October 2018 18:03 (six years ago) link

I am v. excited to read that Heylin book but what is up with that awful title?

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 22 October 2018 19:05 (six years ago) link

three years pass...

I drove out to Farley House the other day, where Fairport reconvened after the death of Jeannie Franklyn to record Liege & Lief. Not a huge amount to report I guess, apart from the atmosphere, which is lonely and wild (if you can have a wildness this close to civilisation. Thoreau might be the person to ask). It's in the arse end of nowhere (relatively speaking for Hampshire) surrounded by flint and chalk farmland, looking out towards some low hills and the distant docks at Southampton and the Isle of Wight beyond. Farley Mount - the high point in the surrounding landscape, topped by a dazzling white monument to 'Beware Chalk Pit' the trusty horse of the 3rd Earl of Bolingbroke - is not too far off, but not visible from the house. There is a pretty amazing church nearby - St John's at Farley Chamberlayne - one of several in the area that seem to serve no real purpose and no real community. It's totally naked in the surrounding countryside, a sanctuary from the wind and the loneliness. There was a guy sitting on a low bench as I approached; I asked if the church was open and he pulled out some earbuds from under his hood, and was clearly crying. Despite the gloom, the inside of the church is like a basin of light. I didn't tarry: I felt like I'd intruded and left quite quickly.

Some nice photos of the band at the house here: https://jennyartichoke.wordpress.com/2014/09/02/fairport-convention-farley-chamberlayne/

https://i.imgur.com/pVtg40X.jpg

Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Friday, 29 October 2021 10:01 (three years ago) link

Lovely post

maybe these baps are legends (Noodle Vague), Friday, 29 October 2021 10:02 (three years ago) link

^^^

Hannibal Lecture (PBKR), Friday, 29 October 2021 11:35 (three years ago) link

^^^

Communist Hockey Goblin (sleeve), Friday, 29 October 2021 15:08 (three years ago) link

<3

o shit the sheriff (NickB), Friday, 29 October 2021 15:21 (three years ago) link

also hampshire has all the best village names

o shit the sheriff (NickB), Friday, 29 October 2021 15:23 (three years ago) link

Not while there’s Dorset, it doesn’t.

(Lovely post, Chinaski.)

Tim, Friday, 29 October 2021 15:44 (three years ago) link

okay at the risk of complete thread derail, these are my top thirty hampshire place names:

Cowplain
Crampmoor
Crow
Crux Easton
Deadwater
Dummer
Enham Alamein
Farleigh Wallop
Fox Amport
Freefolk
Frogmore
Funtley
Golden Pot
Gore End
Little Ann
Martyr Worthy
Mislingford
Mockbeggar
Nately Scures
Oliver's Battery
Picket Twenty
Quidhampton
Ragged Appleshaw
Red Rice
Sheet
Tiptoe
Tickley
Up Nately
Viables
Worlds End

o shit the sheriff (NickB), Friday, 29 October 2021 16:01 (three years ago) link

bollocks i forgot Firgo

o shit the sheriff (NickB), Friday, 29 October 2021 16:03 (three years ago) link

Compton Pauncefoot still the top of the charts though.

Tim, Friday, 29 October 2021 16:31 (three years ago) link

(Ah no it turns out that’s in Somerset. So is Queen Camel.)

Tim, Friday, 29 October 2021 16:34 (three years ago) link

Hehehe. When I write my noir novel, my nom de plume will be Farley Chamberlayne. Or Compton Pauncefoot. Or Purbeck Incline.

Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Friday, 29 October 2021 18:13 (three years ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.