― Mark Richardson, Sunday, 18 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Note that The Kinks lost their touck on the US charts once they stopped writing songs like 'You Really Got Me'
― JM, Sunday, 18 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Mark, it IS a great idea for a thread. There are many great British bands who the USA never 'got'. What about The Jam?
― Dr. C, Sunday, 18 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Tim Baier, Monday, 19 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
I've always been kind of on the fence about the Replacements. There are a couple of nice moments in their early songs, but I have always suspected the fawning praise from the indie-boy critics had more to do with their beery self-mythology than the music.
Saying that people who don't like them "don't get it" sounds a little too uncomfortably close to the rantings of an 11 year old angry at some critic for dissing Justin Timberlake. And the 11 year old has more of an excuse.
― Nicole, Monday, 19 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Sterling Clover, Monday, 19 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
I didn't mean that people who "don't get" the Replacements lose. I meant that people who don't get Mark's post lose. You, obviously, lose. Sorry. :)
― Tim Baier, Tuesday, 20 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
When people go on and on about Husker Du, I understand, because Bob Mould and Co. were doing some very cool stuff within the framework of accessible, understandable rock music. The Replacements don't and could never compare to that.
― Dan Perry, Tuesday, 20 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
I gave the replacements a try, I really did -- I knew people who raved about them so I tried to give them a chance to impress me.They didn't. I have listened to all of their material up through Pleased to Meet Me. It's not bad...but on other hand, there's just nothing particularly compelling about it to give it that spark that the best pop music has. I don't hate it - I just don't love it either, so I'm still a little baffled as to how you read the phrase "on the fence" as a stand-in for "dislike".
I never "admitted to" being turned off by the beery self-mythology. I was just casting about for an explanation of why certain people might be into them to such a fanatical extent. Maybe I should have included other reasons, to make the point more clear. You know, like maybe it wasn't the beery self-mythology people liked, it was the fact that Tommy Stinson looked like a hairier version of Rob Lowe if you were squinting in a smoky club (well, it was the eighties)? Or maybe airline pilots worldwide rallied round their cause for having the courage to diss stewardesses in "Waitress in the Sky"? Maybe that's what earned them all of that "parise". I don't honestly know.
If that means I've lost something, well...as the legendary Robbie Neville once sang, "C'est La Vie". :-)
― Nicole, Tuesday, 20 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Nicole: Pardon my errant assumption, but it sure sounded like you were giving the "beery self-mythology" as your reason for not liking them since you didn't give any other reasons.
― Tim Baier, Wednesday, 21 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
The Replacements and Soul Asylum are both from the Twin Cities and have, at alternate times, been held up as examples of how vibrant and wonderful the Twin Cities music scene is. The Goo Goo Dolls are from Buffalo and therefore irrelevant to the conversation.
― Dan Perry, Wednesday, 21 February 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Tim Baier, Tuesday, 6 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
I said that The Replacements and Soul Asylum represent the worst of what the Twin Cities music scene had to offer, yet both bands seem to be liked a lot and I could never understand why.
Tim (after taking a moment to slam Husker Du) asked why I didn't bring up the Goo Goo Dolls.
I stated that the Goo Goo Dolls were from Buffalo and have nothing to do with my point, which is that the Replacements and Soul Asylum are two of the worst bands to come out of the Twin Cities.
Tim has a fit.
There are a ton of jokes begging to be made here, but in light of Tom's new stance regarding abusive posts, I will refrain. So, to Tim: Since you want to bring the Goo Goo Dolls into this so desperately, I can't say that they rank among my favorite bands, either, but at least their lead singer can sing. That will excuse many things in my book. (Also, congratulations on being the first person on these boards to attempt to take a shot at me for posting with a Harvard email address.)
― Dan Perry, Wednesday, 7 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Anyway, by your "relevance" thinking, what does Soul Asylum have to do with the Replacements? Do you think that has more or less musical relevance than what the Goo Goo Dolls have to do with the Replacements? If "your point" was that Soul Asylum is crap, why bring it up in a Replacements thread? Just because they're both from Minneapolis? Fine (however backwards as I see it), but allow me the same freedom to bring up a band that is far more relevant to the "conversation", and the Goo Goo Dolls seem more relevant to the Mats in a musical context than Soul Asylum. And we're still talking about the MUSIC, right?
And was I REALLY "slamming" Husker Du? Do I now need to recap what I said or can we all just scroll up a bit to re-read it? (I'm going to trust that we've learned to use them by now.) I didn't rip 'em a new a-hole or anything. I don't "slam" many bands and certainly not HD. But they have neither the highs nor the longevity of the Mats.
― Tim Baier, Thursday, 8 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― Nick, Thursday, 8 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Now, you ask, "What does Soul Asylum have to do with the Replacements?" Perhaps if you had utilized your newly-mastered skill with scroll bars, you would have noticed that I initially wrote, "They, along with Soul Asylum, represent the nadir of the Twin Cities music scene and I, for one, could never fathom why people liked them so much." Once you've mastered reading comprehension, you'll see several pieces of information in that sentence:
- I think The Replacements are horrifically overrated. - I think Soul Asylum is horrifically overrated. - Both bands come from the Twin Cities. - Both bands have received critical acclaim and have been held up as representations of Twin Cities music. - I think that there are a lot of bands from the Twin Cities who are much better than both bands. I facetiously (oops, sorry: jokingly) said Limited Warranty, but that list also includes Husker Du/Sugar/Bob Mould, Walt Mink, The Blue Up?, Tool & Die, Savage Aural Hotbed, Prince and the NPG, The Time/Morris Day/Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, Psykosonik, Project X, Lies Incorporated, and Ex- Boyfriends of Pamela.
The only reason I brought up Soul Asylum was to illustrate a point about how people view the music scene in the Twin Cities. I was not equating Soul Asylum to The Replacements as far as their respective sounds are concerned. I never claimed to equate their respective sounds (beyond putting them in a general category called "Bad").
As far as "slamming" Husker Du is concerned: You just said that they had neither the highs nor the longevity of the Replacements. Considering how painfully mediocre the Replacements are, I don't see that as a very positive comment on Husker Du.
Finally, I'd like to point out that, unless there's been a major bio- engineering breakthrough while I wasn't looking, the Replacements aren't your mother and I'm somewhat puzzled as to why you're reacting so vehemently at my disdain. I'm further puzzled as to why you're obsessed with where I went to school, but I really can't do anything about other people's jealousy.
I eagerly await your nonsensical, ranting reply.
― Dan Perry, Thursday, 8 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
(On a different note, I actually think the Replacements should get classic status from their seminal proto-slacker attitude, which was fairly distinct at the time)
― Sterling Clover, Thursday, 8 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
I think that their slacker attitude (as opposed to Pavement's) does not translate well outside the US. (For the reverse thread - I would suggest Robyn Hitchcock and the Egyptians: "The Man With the Lightbulb Head" reminds me of British comedies on PBS. They're funny, though I never feel like I'm laughing for the right reasons.) A 'beery self-mythology' would leave songs like "Androgynous" and "Little Mascara" unexplained.
I think that Paul Westerberg may have sounded 'bleaurghiriffic' (great word!!) intentionally, but I find this endearing, like the nasality of Jonathan Richman's voice.
I'll quote part of Dan Perry's answer to the tunes thread: "Certain tunes fit certain ways of singing. Certain ways of singing fit certain tunes. [...] Is it suited to the lyrics being sung? Is it suited to the voice singing it? Does the person have the vocal training to pull it off? Does the person have too much vocal training to pull it off?"
I think Paul Westerberg's way of singing fit his songs. On the other hand, listeners may have different tolerances for vocal imperfections based upon their own training.
I think the claim that the Replacements' 'conflicted conflictedness' makes their songs illegitimate is not the same as saying ska-punk is bad because it rips off other musical genres. Experience may be genuinely secondhand. I think it's a suburban thing.
So I would say CLASSIC, but not for reasons of technical virtuosity or being really innovative or anything like that.
I hope I haven't destroyed the fun of this thread.
― youn noh, Friday, 9 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Dan, if I knew where you were, I'd buy you a beer too cause you definitely need to lighten up a little.
― Tim Baier, Friday, 9 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
etc., etc., etc.
― Nicole, Friday, 9 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
― larmey, Friday, 9 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
That's one of few punk albums I like. It's just so dang good.
"Mature" Replacements just don't ring my bell. They're just songs, y'know? Not bad, not especially good. Just songs, and who needs more of those.
― Jack Redelfs, Tuesday, 25 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Sunday, 21 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― helen fordsdale, Sunday, 28 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Arthur, Sunday, 28 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Isn't that it, though? This long discussion has mostly just varied by personal taste and that common problem of 'young man rock passion,' where dumbass young man can't see over his ego (to his mind, quite a large vein! --lmfao) to see that his view is not the only one in the world.
― sindee light, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― bob snoom, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― JM, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Good call! Now that you mention it it does seem reminiscent of "Don't tell a Soul" era Replacements, when they were patiently plugging away at MTV in the hopes of getting REM big.
― Nicole, Tuesday, 13 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― JM, Wednesday, 14 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Jimmy Fallon (wearing glasses): Cool, Tina.
Tina: That's right, it's... Jimmy! You don't wear glasses!
Jimmy: I-I don't?
Tina: No! What's going to happen next!
(Winonna Ryder runs out)
Winonna Ryder (VERY HOT): One of you is the father of my child!
(shocked looks as they all freeze for the camera. Winonna Ryder cracks up. Scene falls apart)
― youn, Monday, 3 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― joe, Wednesday, 23 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― helenfordsdale, Wednesday, 23 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― XStatic Peace, Wednesday, 23 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Dave225, Wednesday, 23 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― JM, Wednesday, 23 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Oh, and I grew up in and around the Twin Cities, too, so I figure my line of bullshit is just as qualified as anyone else ranting around here.
Virtually from the time they signed to Twin/Tone, the Replacements were hated by many other local musicians, probably from jealousy as much as anything else. Which is the way it's always been up there (or anywhere else on earth, I imagine) and why it's such a pathetic "scene." The same thing happens to every band that sells any records or gains a scintilla of popularity: they get ragged on. The hissing and backbiting for Trip Shakespeare, the Geardaddies, the Jayhawks, even Prince...if a band could fill the main room a couple of nights at the First Avenue, they definitely were too popular for the Twin Town cognoscenti. Time and time again I endured bitching by worthless other bands about how Westerberg sold out, couldn't write good songs, couldn't play for shit, and the worst offense--that he quit drinking and lost his talent with his habit--whenever crawling the racks at the various record stores and clubs around town. Sick.
The Replacements had some great, great moments in their released work, though live they were generally spotty. Westerberg's songs were not groundbreaking or sonically challenging but to refer to The Replacements as representative of the "worst" that the Twin Cities has or had to offer is just plain bullshit. It smacks of the immature jealousy that ruins any potential music scene. And it's all based on the fact that more people bought 'Mats' albums than Walt Mink's. And while I didn't get into all the other bands proffered up by Perry as better than the Replacements, I saw more than a few bad nights by a few of them to know that they were far from perfect. Or more relevant in any way.
The Replacements are a classic.
― Don Weiner, Friday, 25 October 2002 16:41 (twenty-one years ago) link
I'm not at all jealous of The Replacements. I just don't like them. Surely that isn't very difficult to comprehend?
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 25 October 2002 17:04 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 25 October 2002 17:06 (twenty-one years ago) link
At least, not any more than you are.
It's not that you just "don't like them." It's that you posit that they were the *worst* of what the Twin Cities had to offer. I mean really, you can't think of dozens of other bands who were worse? Or, as I posit, do you just think they represented the nadir of the scene because a) so many people knew who they were and b) so many more people bought their records?
There were and are plenty of reasonable people who think that the Replacements were a dumbed down version of Thin Lizzy or a lazy version of Bad Company. There are also plenty of reasonable people who think that the Replacements had some damn great songs. But you're part of the group who is intent on spinning their success (?) into something much more negative than that, something that the local music scene never needed. If anything, the attention the Replacements brought on to the indie scene in Minneapolis gave a lot of bands deals that they likely never otherwise would have had. The cancer on any scene is resentment, and whether you will deny you had any towards the Replacements, a lot of bands did.
RIP Paul Wellstone.
― "Dapper" Don Weiner, Friday, 25 October 2002 18:03 (twenty-one years ago) link
I freely admit that my stance on The Replacements as put forward in this thread is blatant hyperbole. I'm certain that there are many TC bands I want nothing to do with who are *objectively* (if you can measure that) worse than The Replacements. My issue with The Replacements is that they don't hit any of my emotions or any of my "ooh, that's neat!" buttons. The bands I listed do. I think _Miss Happiness_ is one of the most underrated albums of the 90s, Husker Du were phenomenal, and most of the other groups I listed outside of the Prince Axis are dance/industrial groups whose core audience probably wouldn't have had anything to do with The Replacements, anyway. I mean, the entire focus of Savage Aural Hotbed was performance art featuring kodo drumming, PVC tubing, guitar squalls, woodwind abuse and tricks with rhythm; if that's the type of thing you're looking for in your music, you're going to find The Replacements wildly uninteresting. (Likewise, the first Walt Mink song I heard was "Croton-Harmon", with its super-syncopation and absolutely killer 4/4:7/8 hook between verses; once I heard that, I was ready to dive into the rest of the album full steam.)
So, you can look at my stance from a particular viewpoint and say, "Well, he hates them because he's jealous of their success," but that's woefully inaccurate. It's much closer to "He hates them because he's not at all disposed towards the style of music they embody, but people latched onto it and he had to hear them everywhere he went because of his older brother."
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 25 October 2002 18:19 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 25 October 2002 18:22 (twenty-one years ago) link
― David Allen, Friday, 25 October 2002 18:50 (twenty-one years ago) link
(kidding)
― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 25 October 2002 18:58 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 25 October 2002 22:14 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Saturday, 26 October 2002 00:09 (twenty-one years ago) link
D'oh!
― L.H.O.O.Q. Jones (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 13 July 2022 17:13 (one year ago) link
“Waitress in the Sky” sounds like Lennon could’ve penned it.
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Wednesday, 13 July 2022 17:18 (one year ago) link
Ha! re: "Mr. Whirly"
BUT...was it directly inspired by the Beatles? Or by Tomorrow (featuring Bob's fave guitarist, Steve Howe)?
Compare the intros:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6gqN9HSa7U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TBwM6oz3Bg
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 13 July 2022 17:19 (one year ago) link
This was posted elsewhere by Jason Jones at Rhino but apparently we shouldn't expect a Hootenanny box set due to lack of material. Bummer.
― birdistheword, Friday, 18 November 2022 20:40 (one year ago) link
Unexpectedly, "The Twisted Art of Chris Mars"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmaw2DDeCQc
(Side note: Horseshoes and Hand Grenades is better than any Paul Westerberg album.)
― Hideous Lump, Tuesday, 23 May 2023 01:54 (one year ago) link
Juxtapoz magazine did a lovely profile on Mars which focused solely on his incredible art at least 20 years ago. His pieces can sell for $25kUSD+, and I’m sure he’s made far more from them than he ever did in The Replacements
― beamish13, Tuesday, 23 May 2023 05:37 (one year ago) link
…
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 22 September 2023 00:50 (eight months ago) link
This ranking is pretty good imo but I'd move Hootenanny up from 6 to 4.
https://www.spin.com/2023/09/every-replacements-album-ranked/
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Friday, 22 September 2023 01:21 (eight months ago) link
I need to spend more time with Hootenanny. For some reason my brain classifies it as an EP and then I'm surprised when I see how many songs are on it. I only have it on vinyl and I got it after my big Replacements phase, so I haven't given it the attention it deserves.
There's a dude on the Hoffman Forums that works with Rhino on the new box sets, it might be Bob Mehr. But he was saying that there likely be some sort of a Hootenanny special release, it just won't be a big box set because he doesn't think there's enough stuff to justify that. But it sounds like an expanded release is in the cards.
― Cow_Art, Friday, 22 September 2023 01:50 (eight months ago) link
There’s so many Mats threads I probably should have revived the one Bob Mehr recently showed up on.
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 22 September 2023 01:59 (eight months ago) link
Xpost Stink should be above DTAS
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 22 September 2023 02:11 (eight months ago) link
Same here. It's a really good album with some of their greatest tracks.
― birdistheword, Friday, 22 September 2023 02:48 (eight months ago) link
Clemenza's Real Life Top 10: I heard "Unsatisfied" in the car today, but just the slow build at the beginning (same part used so brilliantly in Adventureland--bumper music for a talk show on the Zoomer station here. Bizarre; this is a station for plus-50s, which makes sense in terms of timeline, but this is not a station meant for plus-50s who bought Replacements albums.
― clemenza, Friday, 22 September 2023 02:52 (eight months ago) link
(missing end bracket there after Adventureland)
― clemenza, Friday, 22 September 2023 02:53 (eight months ago) link
really dislike Adventureland for its revisionist history soundtrack. no disrespect to the YLT score.
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Friday, 22 September 2023 04:09 (eight months ago) link
We couldn't be farther apart there: love "Unsatisfied" and Husker Du especially.
― clemenza, Friday, 22 September 2023 04:43 (eight months ago) link
LOOK ME IN THE EYE AND TELL ME
― Psychocandy Apple Grey (Pyschocandles), Friday, 22 September 2023 06:47 (eight months ago) link
Bob Mehr's the best. His Mats book is one of the greatest music biogs I've ever read.
― Lumpy pillows, kiss my ass. Put that in your book (stevie), Friday, 22 September 2023 08:31 (eight months ago) link
Yeah, I read it recently and it was great. It would have been really easy for the book to come across like a laundry list of fuck-ups, but it manages to avoid that.
― Cow_Art, Friday, 22 September 2023 10:14 (eight months ago) link
Out of interest, does the book specifically talk about their major 1987 London show I attended where Paul was so fucked up he couldn't even stand, let alone sing or play? Or was that just par for the course at that time and not worth its own mention?
― the arkansas ruggerclub (Matt #2), Friday, 22 September 2023 11:27 (eight months ago) link
No, nothing specific about that show. There were more details about the prior euro tour because it was their first time overseas. The 87 shows were noted as being more of the same with rowdy London shows but low turnout outside of that.
― Cow_Art, Friday, 22 September 2023 12:17 (eight months ago) link
Hootenany is my favorite but it might suffer from the bias of being the first Replacements record I bought
― joygoat, Sunday, 24 September 2023 17:49 (eight months ago) link
I have it as high as 3rd on some days. YMMV, but the thrash rockers add to the overall album for me, rather than, I dunno Red Red Wine or whatever.
― campreverb, Sunday, 24 September 2023 18:29 (eight months ago) link
November 15, 1987 @ Orpheum, Minneapolis. "Notes: during ‘Never Mind’ Paul falls off the stage. You can hear a thump in the recording. ‘Dude Looks Like A Lady’ (Aerosmith) is inserted during ‘Gary’s Got A Boner.’
I know it's been discussed here and elsewhere, but the reported relative lack of traction the Replacements had/have outside of America ... that's totally linked to the fact that the band's fucked up-ed-ness is fundamentally, even foundationally American, right? I can't think of a better metaphor for this country than a self-destructive, simultaneously effortlessly brilliant and accidentally brilliant band as apt to rip your heart out as fall off the stage, or offer galvanizing, generation-defining anthems alongside nods to late-era Aerosmith in the middle of a song about boners.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 21 October 2023 14:09 (seven months ago) link
I think it's that particular mix of decadence and unpretentiousness, though even by that standard there's not really anyone else like them in America, either.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 21 October 2023 14:18 (seven months ago) link
we're comin to your townwe're gonna fall right downwe're an American band
― maf you one two (maffew12), Saturday, 21 October 2023 14:21 (seven months ago) link