★ The Weeknd ★ What You Need ★

Was pop rap really a periphery of rap though?

My argument only applies in respect of stuff consciously presenting or presented as peripheral.

i.e. Pitbull appearing on a J Lo single isn't selfconsciously transgressive in the way that the Weeknd is.

i was thinking people who think 'i only want to be peripherally involved in rap' often were just listening to top 40 which at that time was a pretty good representation of rap qua rap

Oh okay, I think that is a slightly different sensibility though true elsewhere as well - e.g. people who aren't heavily invested in dance music except for crossover hits (also quite representative at certain times).

Obv. late 90s / early 00s rap periphery: ClouDDEAD, Cannibal Ox/El-P

Maybe a kind of threshold case is say, Timbaland, whose late 90s/early 00s work both could be set up as genre-transgressive and genre-organic, depending on how you framed it.

You could imagine two people listening to the same record at that point and thinking "I like this because it (such an unusual twist on OR perfectly exemplifies) the core values of R&B / rap" depending on the narrative they used to frame the record.

(Timbaland also falling into the "only listens to chart hits" category at that point as well)

when I did my little bit of research about the last P&J singles poll and about how statistically it's less pop and more niche/indie than it used to be, Lamp and some other people acted like I was going to bumrush their homes and take away their National CDs or petition the Voice to change the way they tabulate ballots. even if you try to write descriptively (rather than prescriptively) about the state of music criticism and prevailing trends and biases it seems to trigger astrong "it's Chinatown...NO SERIOUSLY JUST FORGET ABOUT IT" response.

this still sounds pretty good btw

it's endured two weeks!

Just like Rebecca Black!

and Pitchfork!

And Fukushima radiation and no fly zones and...

★partying partying/looking fwd to the weeknd ★

yall are some paranoid stoners

― so fly zone (D-40), Wednesday, 23 March 2011 14:59 (6 days ago) Bookmark

man lex your article is fucking up the game man

http://mimswings.tumblr.com/post/4197885586/frank-ocean-the-weeknd-pbr-b-and-the-further

i join this crew who thinks frank ocean >>>

when I did my little bit of research about the last P&J singles poll and about how statistically it's less pop and more niche/indie than it used to be, Lamp and some other people acted like I was going to bumrush their homes and take away their National CDs or petition the Voice to change the way they tabulate ballots. even if you try to write descriptively (rather than prescriptively) about the state of music criticism and prevailing trends and biases it seems to trigger astrong "it's Chinatown...NO SERIOUSLY JUST FORGET ABOUT IT" response.

― ★ Project Pat ★ What Cha Starin At ★ I Ain't A Mirror ★ (some dude), Tuesday, March 29, 2011 3:19 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

i feel you, and i will cop to being a little guilty of this in this thread but still:

i feel bad for ppl showing up earlier in this thread naively 'enjoying the music' like mindless automatons. when will they learn to augment their listening by addressing the more fundamental issue that their emotional response takes place in a cultural space poisoned by ryan schreiber's ignorant hegemony. stop taking the blue pill guys

― ogmor, Tuesday, March 29, 2011 2:02 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

time sure change huh guys
ElectroSoul in the same vein as Jamie Liddell, Hot Chip, etc.

check out these guys called postal service.

― grady (grady), Thursday, March 9, 2006 1:17 AM (5 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

;)

lol, who's gonna revive some quality d*a*e threads

hey buddy, fuck you

thats re: using my name, btw

for the record i like *r*k*

it was a ref to your first dn can't help it if you used your gov name for that •shrug•

yes, you can.

can i help it

― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, March 30, 2011 4:44 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yes, you can.

― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, March 30, 2011 4:44 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

can i help it

― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, March 30, 2011 4:44 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yes, you can.

― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, March 30, 2011 4:44 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

can i help it

― who is john nult? (dayo), Wednesday, March 30, 2011 4:44 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yes, you can.

― timbo slice (D-40), Wednesday, March 30, 2011 4:44 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

well i'm gone

love you for that hoos

also HOOS is a valid spellcheck item in my iPhone lol

i think deej is right about pfork fwiw

agreed

yeah i also don't understand why frank ocean is being lumped together w/ the weekend either -- nothing he's doing on his mixtape is very novel from an indie vs mainstream standpoint -- i mean shit jim jones rapped over mgmt two years ago, it's no biggie

I think ya'll care too much about p4k

that doesn't make the point wrong tho

its a p obvious point

2 classic internet argument tactics in 2 posts

In particular, the privileging of genre-transgressing indie-friendly takes on popular music long pre-exists Pitchfork and also has replicated itself in any number of areas of music not traditionally within Pitchfork' purview.

yeah this is true - i kind of feel that we spent the past, like, decade arguing against this though - this is why i joined ilx in the first place! and the argument was won, basically - that's why people say "rockism zzz" cuz the subject's old hat now. AND YET AND YET

I found this record pretty much unlistenable. Out of p4krnb I can just about enjoy How To Dress Well but otherwise I have a real aversion.

On the other hand the good thing about things like this blowing up in the ****osphere is that peeps like Lex say 'why aren't you listening to this' and then you find better stuff or revisit stuff like Trey with a more open mindset. Finding it really weird how hostile a lot of people irl are to rnb type stuff when they're otherwise openminded.

feel like if it was an album of female-empowerment anthems lex would be all up on it tho

if it was an album of female empowerment anthems it would be getting hype from the 5 people who posted in the electrik red thread, j shep, and NO ONE ELSE

i mean apart from the means of promotion this is the other reason shit like this gets privileged by critics - this morose masculinity is fucking catnip for them - how often do artists who explicitly sing from a female perspective and to a largely female audience get this sort of shine? unless they actually become megastars?

if electrik red were boys they'd have been drooled over as much as odd future

also, some lols: http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/music/4281263

At the risk of sounding racist

thank fucking god for this record! I hope it inspires other (black) r&b artists to start making great, creative music. Because Jennifer Hudson and Rihanna ain't cuttin' the mustard. Word.

I hope this record inspires a tidal wave of alt/indie r&b albums.

The simple fact is that most R’n’B leaves me cold. I find it lyrically and sonically dull and formulaic. Part of the thrill of discovering an artist like The Weeknd (or How to Dress Well) is that they present elements of R’n’B in a way that I find interesting (by being “arty” and “weird”.) It’s a form of cultural appropriation I guess, but I don’t see a problem with that.

But I absolutely agree that the majority of r&b is sonically dull and formulaic. It's as if all the young r&b artists are writing music to ride in Mirah Carey's limousine. Like vapid reality show contestants. Like a CBS crime drama. Like the writer who writes to get on the NYT Bestseller list. Some might make it, but that doesn't mean the book's worth a damn.

So here's an r&b artist who wants to make "artsy" r&b...and guess what? He did. And the album is infinitely more interesting because of it.

Most r&b has a heavy emphasis on the vocal performance, the kind we see every week on American Idol. Though at least with AI it's a bit of a goof. The Weeknd shifted the emphasis to the musical palette, and good call by going chillwave, because it's a natural fit. (The Siouxsie and Beach House samples aren't really what makes this record great.)

Jesus Fucking Christ

Lol he didn't even say anything racist

That said I do think that drowned in sound should incorporate the phrase, "At the risk of sounding racist" into its website in various fashions

Lex what you said about "morose masculinity" is exactly why I was trying to say about Tyler the Creator in the ofwgkta thread

Repost if you read the dis board comments and creyed :'(

dunno who this is but this tweet pretty much sums up the offended responses http://twitter.com/DocZeus/status/52767010580471808

I thought this thread about the weeknd was a bit pointless and annoying given the avrage music, no idea how this group have got talked about so much tbh but that DiS thread is a no go area for me and I like the place haha that thread started off as a car crash from the start.

the funny thing is if lex didn't push back so vigorously against this album itt I probably would have listened to it once, been like "meh" and forgotten about it

what is the point of finding morons

if i abided by that i wouldn't have read any of the original weeknd pieces in the first place

yeah this is true - i kind of feel that we spent the past, like, decade arguing against this though - this is why i joined ilx in the first place! and the argument was won, basically - that's why people say "rockism zzz" cuz the subject's old hat now. AND YET AND YET

Problem is, it's not just a case of shifting goal posts, it's never obvious where the posts even are.

I'm sure lots of people who like the Weeknd would attribute their enjoyment of it to some form of anti-rockism.

More generally trying to "win" an argument in music criticism/fandom in general is like trying to control the direction of the tide with your hands.