★ The Weeknd ★ What You Need ★

real rnb

like most of the haters itt have been "trey songz did the same style but did it BETTER" but so far nobody's really offered up what metrics or continuum they are putting trey songz ahead of the weeknd on

― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, March 27, 2011 2:31 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i havent??

multiple xxxxpost I think this is always an issue with "outsider" takes on genre: in most cases people who follow the genre closely can actually point to a myriad of examples where the genre itself previously has produced stuff in the same vein, so they're more likely to see the point of difference as ~60% market positioning.

Of course no-one (except arguably Drake, and then fitfully) has made the above sound their raison d'etre, so it's also about giving that sound a certain conceptual unity, about stating that it's the goal rather than just something done on the way to doing a number of other things.

I imagine lots of hip hop listeners would have felt similarly about the critical rise of trip hop at the time: like, we do this kind of thing anyway, you're just not listening hard enough.

do you see your name in that post deej?

I think "Unfortunate" is more genuinely impressive surround-sound (the variety of vocal approaches are important) and also more moving, but it's a matter of degree for me rather than "this is great that is awful".

Maybe we should talk about "Shades" here also.

i might not be the best representative for the anti-side in this case though as my issue is more with the execution than the overall attempt. Like, im into that one jamie woon song, and i dug the way ariel pink did this kind of thing sometimes. its not an overall anti-indie bias, i was fairly surprised that i didnt like it when i first listened

'this kind of thing' being genre mixing generally, pink sounds nothing like this obv

Of course no-one (except arguably Drake, and then fitfully) has made the above sound their raison d'etre, so it's also about giving that sound a certain conceptual unity, about stating that it's the goal rather than just something done on the way to doing a number of other things.

― Tim F, Sunday, March 27, 2011 2:33 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah i remember talking w/ noz about that song 'dominoes' by big pink that was year ended last year, and about how it was like a nas/jay-z hot line/hot song but with gucci instead. There's a bias here in that, theres a density of these kinds of ideas in a genre, and then someone focuses on one of them to give it 'conceptual unity' & its taken more seriously (still unclear on why Big Pink's groupie misogyny barely raised an eyebrow)

year ended at pfork

so what about the execution don't you like, deej

do you see your name in that post deej?

― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, March 27, 2011 2:33 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

whenever i see 'haters' i assume my name is in it lol

I think in some ways R&B has developed a certain sensibility whereby it hints at all of these sensations along the lines of "watching the end of a party through smoke" etc. etc. without actually acknowledging it head on, but the singer knows that the listener knows that the singer knows that that territory is right there, a gaping abyss surrounding the loving and debauchery and egoism.

And I think big R&B listeners end up preferring that strategic misdirection and coded mannerism, leaving the Weeknd's decision to face it head on seeming somehow gauche, like coming out and saying what everyone else was cleverly implying.

Whereas people who aren't so into R&B for the first time wouldn't be hearing all that implication, so appreciate someone reproducing that notion so wholeheartedly and deliberately.

what does gucci have to do w/ 'dominoes'

we concluded it was the kind of simile he would have come up w/

fwiw this is around the same you & i did our 'top gucci verses of 2k9' so we were waist deep in lyrics at that pt

Srsly though no-one would blink if "The 5 Senses" was on this album, imitation of 50 Cent rap 'n' all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqZaoR5NBiY

I would like to point out I have been otm in this thread w/ the jeremih comparison, no deej

Stick a reverb peddle on this and you're away...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBPeyHjDx6Q

I would like to point out I have been otm in this thread w/ the jeremih comparison, no deej

― who is john nult? (dayo), Sunday, March 27, 2011 2:42 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

the first time i did this post it was on some 'no lj' so just fyi that doesnt work

but i dont know jeremih's 2nd album so

echo echo echo echo

just like the press for this

lol

man thats a great call w/ the jeremih

I think in some ways R&B has developed a certain sensibility whereby it hints at all of these sensations along the lines of "watching the end of a party through smoke" etc. etc. without actually acknowledging it head on, but the singer knows that the listener knows that the singer knows that that territory is right there, a gaping abyss surrounding the loving and debauchery and egoism.

Kinda keen to build on my own thought here: the value of the hidden gesture in particular genres.

Like, I don't expect big Weeknd stans who are not also massively into modern R&B to really like the remix of Cristina Milian's "Dip It Low", but for me it has the debauchery into shattered emptiness vibe that people seem to see in this stuff.

I think you're on to something there - foregrounding the 'shattered emptiness vibe' is definitely what sets this apart from other R&B out there, and the indie production is used to get at that, not as an end in itself

like I think the lex's complaints would make a lot more sense if this was trey songz loverman type lyrics set over beach house, but it's not

whoa hold on its still a guy singing about rnb

also lol this band have been mentioned four times on pitchfork and once was nabisco writing about this thread

I think some blogs mentioned the weeknd too, don't forget

i feel like im drowning

the shit leaked like a day ago b/w trust me these dudes are gonna be on late nite tv w/in a couple months

yeah when something's trajectory is so clearly preordained i don't think it's out of line to think a couple steps ahead

i mean if Drake actually does hire these guys to write a couple of joints on his next album and they become another shade in his spectrum of 40/Boi 1da sadsack R&B that'll be a slightly different kind of success than we're assuming they're headed for but probably won't make a huge difference ultimately

whatevs, it's more fun to talk about than the new gucci mane mixtape

obv

tbh i was really impressed how quickly tom & nabisco managed to publish pieces responding to not just the mixtape but the discussion around it. epic

tom?

this is nice.

and yeah, very jeremih

think i need to cruise ilm for music recommends more often now that I'm less biz active

not to like further incense gr80 that i'm not attentively listening to the entire album and posting strictly about the music, but as much as i totally get Lamp's point about emotional response, i'm really interested in the thought process that gets people clicking around and deciding to hear The Weeknd in the first place. like obviously this is being defined universally as R&B, whether a certain kind or a hybrid with something else, but what are the keywords or aspects of the buzz around this that it's quickly impacting a type of music fan that by and large isn't checking for R&B? i mean you might ALSO primarily hear about some ilx-beloved R&B act like Teedra Moses or Electrik Red on the internet rather than the radio, but even within this little community there's a palpable difference of how those records are discussed and buzzed about vs. this.

the're also a reason why i think this being R&B is very particular to the argument and why analogies to situations in other genres aren't especially useful. i really believe that probably a greater percentage of the best R&B is mainstream (either on a major label or being made by very visible, famous artists) than is true for probably any other major genre right now. there are whole worlds of underground/niche/internet/indie rock or rap or dance music that offer completely different things to music fans that the mainstream equivalents don't even begin to provide -- i'm not sure if that's so much the case with R&B, where most off-the-radar artists are either wannabe mainstream amateurs and also-rans or working in an older style that's no longer on the charts. usually when critics do rally around a less commercial R&B artist, it's the latter, someone like Sharon Jones that makes total sense as an 'alternative' to radio R&B. with something like The Weeknd that's not only stylistically contemporary but has earned a lot of comparisons to a artists/sounds that are all over the radio (Drake/40, Terius/Tricky), i gotta say it feels like the 'mysterious collective' stuff and the weird cover art are making way more of the difference than just the subtleties of mood and production styles.

i feel like whiney could do a 'if someone had a gun to your head could you sing' poll to most of this record & ppl would struggle to remember the hooks unless theyd lived with it for a long time. which is my problem w/ the songwriting in general. without playing the record now, can anyone sing that first track from memory? the bulk of this stuff just doesnt stick imo

this maybe IS one of those times where it's fair to point out the record's been out for x days or whatever

usually on records in this pop milieu there are a good number of tracks that hit right away though, or when i spin thru the record i can see how they'll grow w/ time.

ime

yeah i know i'm just sayin

listening to "Wicked Games" and yeah this guy really does lean on the F-words in the same kind of "YEAH I SAID IT my mom didn't hear that did she?" way as Tyler Comma The Creator

i do think 'the morning' has a good hook to it but the wayne quote in the chorus feels awkward to me in a way that i remember talking about w/r/t that glitchy uk dance genre that almost-was with switch back in the mid-00s where they would sample diddy saying "i love to make you dance," where its going for a hip-hop vibe but does it in a way that feels kind of ... not like what an american artist would do? stilted.

but what are the keywords or aspects of the buzz around this that it's quickly impacting a type of music fan that by and large isn't checking for R&B?

w/o tryna sidebrag or be lame just knowing where the dudes behind this are coming from, the type of social circle(s) they move in/culture they participate in i think there's a self-reinforcing aspect to it. like if youre a young educated person in their early 20s living in a big city & youve made some music where else but the dreaded blogs are you gonna go to promote your stuff? & the tumblrs that youre gonna send your stuff to are the ones you like, or your friends write, or ppl you know think are cool.

like i realize this is tautological but theres this whole constellation of ~cultural participation~ that creates its own logic - it almost feels like qn why you might be buzzing over some local baltimore artist when theyres just as good music being made in san diego - thats not where you live yknow

& also i mean w/o going on a reality tv show or doing mall tours idk how a person wld even start tryna break into the mnstrm r&b game atp so its like - what else are you gonna do?

ugh why is 50 on "the 5 senses"? that worked perfectly at the end of "waiter"

xp ^^ this kinda plays into points upthread made about how indie needs criticism or these grassroots promotions to be relevant, whereas the R&B model has done just fine w/o it

was waiting for you to show up xp