★ The Weeknd ★ What You Need ★

like, he doesnt dismiss it

yeah that wasn't fair at all

i mean i thought the piece was hyperbolic in some bad places but that's just the guy writes about a ton of commercial r&b

some dude, that "shell game" post seems like the point where this thread is becoming too dicky to even post in -- I'd already said "magazines, websites, columns, and reams of daily newspaper coverage" before I even mentioned social media

― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Friday, March 25, 2011 2:50 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i'm sorry if that wasn't sufficiently clear

― oɔsıqɐu (nabisco), Friday, March 25, 2011 2:51 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah but my response only addressed the social media part, and I thought specifically mentioning those things would be understood that way, so the way you interpreted my post as equating that to the other things I hadn't talked about felt a little manipulative to me. if it was all a big misunderstanding then i'm sorry for being dicky.

also I read lots of music writing in daily papers like the Wash Post and occasionally write some (I interviewed Trey Songz for the Balt Sun!), and I don't feel like anything I've said has ignored the existence of those kinds of outlets.

deej mentions "criticism written for fans of r&b and rap" but one thing i'm interested in is whether the rap & r&b world's fascination with "haters" (by both artists and fans) has stifled that type of criticism at all

the "#teambreezy" effect

true

likewise i wonder if the perception (or reality) that major labels nowadays value only what sells over what is 'good' has done the same for that type of criticism

like tons of ppl -- both fans and writers alike! -- wouldn't say "hey look this b.o.b album sucks balls", instead they'd say "hey it's not my thing but can't knock the hustle!" or whatever the hell

i dont think that someone writing about R&B or rap makes them immune to charges of not recognizing the type of biases we're discussing here fwiw

like, its completely fair to accuse someone of indie-centrism or other biases or blindspots, even if they were once music editor at vibe (nb im not saying this is the case w/ sean)

matos told me that fennessey's a former vibe editor - had never heard of him before this week - i assume he's just gotten old and past it, happens to so many

you dont need to be an 'indie writer' to hold values that negatively reinforce opposition to certain aesthetic qualities of some genres

i've definitely felt a subtle shift from a few years ago when i started writing about a lot of regional/urban music that doesn't typically get a lot of critical ink, where a lot of artists were (and to an extent still are) super grateful to get that kind of coverage, but now in the Twitter era there's a lot of emphasis on having "supporters" and "followers," and more artists seem totally disinterested or outright hostile to the idea of opening themselves up to criticism or any kind of feedback that isn't 100% cheerleading.

but once again, artists not chasing down critics or catering to them is not really a good reason not to cover them if their music is good and worth writing about.

lol lex -- i'm pretty sure you and fennessey are the same age

some people grow old before their time ;_;

hahaha

He also writes for the NY Times and Washington Post and tweets and blogs. Maybe his handling of this one item should not define him for you.

its pretty lol that you complain abt how little ppl write abt r&b and you've never heard abt this guy

The article in the Guardian references Toop's Sugar & Poison. The journalist needs to reevaluate this. The mood on that compilation is no where near Weeknd are aiming for. S&P is an exercise in indulgent, bitter-sweet, melancholic soul. Weeknd quite obviously play for a seedy, sexual but vulnerable mood. In my opinion there is a lot of rubbish being written about Weeknd. Who judges the music the like on the same scales? I've really enjoyed Weeknd's mixtape this week but they've(he's) yet to create something truly worthy.

trying to form a slightly more coherent take on this qn - at this moment in history when music is so readily accesible to anyone w/ an internet connection its worth thinking abt music as much fitting into 'emotional' or 'functional' constellations as traditional sonic/cultural ones. & so instead of always using genre as a starting (& end) point in these discussions its worth acknowledging the emotional content of the music & how big a part that plays in how its received

I think we all do this, including all the writers you complain about in this thread lamp. The only difference is that when people aren't into something much they tend to downplay the "emotional" content as they don't consider it very effective or compelling.

At any rate what I've been trying to say is that "emotional content" is cultural, and no more genre-neutral than sonic content. Just as people get primed to connect with certain kinds of sonic tricks (both by listening to music and reading about it / discussing it) they get primed to connect with certain emotional tricks as well.

Personally I haven't really had a position on Weeknd in this thread, or even the media's treatment of R&B really, I'm just a bit suspicious of any arguments premised on some vague dichotomy between thinking and feeling.

please tell me you've at least listened to them

question for you guys re: avenues to discovering the weeknd:

a friend of mine said she found out about the weeknd when it came up on a pandora station she had programmed to play artists like:

• radio dept
• kings of leon
• erykah badu
• adele
• phoenix

payolandora?

best bit on the thread so far is lex not knowing who my beautiful dark twisted fennessey is

thats "hurricane" fennessey to you

One time I used pandora to find some good 70s new age. It kept playing blaring droney crap that I 86'd until it basically went "fuck it" and started playing Jaheim and teedra Moses. turned out that was what I was looking for all along.

tim, i meant to note earlier that i definitely know what you're getting at on this thread. the only thing i feel a need to note is that the "priming" you're talking about is surely, for most people, an INCREDIBLY complicated interaction between stuff in the world (narratives about genre, media, social taste, etc.) and a lot MORE stuff about themselves (self-image, emotional desires, etc.) i worry when conversations seem to be overemphasizing the first part. but maybe that's not what's happening here.

I like this and don't feel conflicted about that.

wicked games one is pretty cool. that's the only youtube i could get to work.

"does this make me corny indie fuxor btw?"

dude, you are rarely corny. and you have better taste than most people. that's why i first clicked on this thread. not for no controversy! no lexoversy!

i dig some of the discussion though. and you are all lucky because i have very little to add.

i knew i smelled somthing burning in here. you guys were thinking and stuff! god bless you.

The background vocal sample on The Party and The After Party... where's that from? It's killing me.

it's Beach House.

hi scott seward you're my favorite kind of music critic

u mad

The background vocal sample on The Party and The After Party... where's that from? It's killing me.

― Popture, Friday, March 25, 2011 11:38 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it's Beach House.

― gr8080, Friday, March 25, 2011 11:51 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

bet i'm gonna love this record huh

tim, i meant to note earlier that i definitely know what you're getting at on this thread. the only thing i feel a need to note is that the "priming" you're talking about is surely, for most people, an INCREDIBLY complicated interaction between stuff in the world (narratives about genre, media, social taste, etc.) and a lot MORE stuff about themselves (self-image, emotional desires, etc.) i worry when conversations seem to be overemphasizing the first part. but maybe that's not what's happening here.

yeah absolutely. I guess when we're talking about stuff in general it's easier to focus on the "stuff in the world" than the "stuff about [the listeners]" because (a) people's discussions about why they like things tend to emphasise the former anyway even if the latter is more important to them (for ease of communication as much as for any other reason) and because (b) the areas of overlap and are likely to be greater with the former.

Like, as much as saying "Weeknd-fans have this idea about R&B" is an unfair generalisation, I would have thought "Weeknd fans identify with this notion of the hollowness at the heart of hypersexualised modernity" (or insert other similar prevailing explanation for the emotional appeal of this music) to be far more of a generalisation.

Which is not to say that critics shouldn't indulge in this kind of thing, but I notice that people only have an issue with it when they're getting all defensive "these are not my thoughts get out of my brane!"

Tim what do you think about this album

dude, you are rarely corny >:-0

The background vocal sample on The Party and The After Party... where's that from? It's killing me.

― Popture, Friday, March 25, 2011 11:38 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it's Beach House.

― gr8080, Saturday, March 26, 2011 1:51 PM (5 hours ago)

Oh thanks, It was thinking it sounded a bit like B BEAT GIRLS "FOR THE SAME MAN" Classic Version 1983 ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rJp80ozJ4c) , but it's just that sounds a little like Beach House.

btw did anybody notice in one of the songs he goes "fun fun fun fun fun"

now I understand why everybody's lookin' forward to The Weeknd

weeknd warriors

I'm listening to anticipation right now, it's nice but I don't think it's directly comparable to the weeknd, yeah the production is stripped down and bare on some tracks, but the vocal arrangements are still very lush compared to the weeknd

Given most people who would be boosting Trey over the Weeknd probably would say that the latter's vocals are its weakest link, that ought not be so surprising.

I don't dislike Weeknd's vocals except for particular moments actually; I agree he sounds more like Jeremih than Trey.

I'm kinda loving that hollowed out, empty-eyed feeling of the opening bars on the morning

I briefly flirted w/ trey songz after cb broke my heart/rihannas face but i was put off by his luvvverman thing and it felt like it was for 30smthg professionals and that you should listen to it w/ a glass of wine and watch the city through your floor-ceiling windows. weeknd sound like you're watching the end of a party through smoke.

I'm kinda diggin lamp's appraisal of different emotional spaces upthread, and yeah emotional responses are enculturated, guess it appeals to my culture

you could dub a weeknd track of this vid and it'd be ~just right~

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnvFOaBoieE

*over this vid