★ The Weeknd ★ What You Need ★

maybe this is because it's 1.30am here but i honestly have no idea what that last sentence means tim.

I interpret nabisco's position as being "what is worth thinking about with the Weeknd is not why they are special in general, but why they are important or interesting to particular listeners and what needs they are fulfilling for those listeners."

IMO this isn't really a dichotomy, because what particular listeners want and need is already shaped and formed by their interaction with public discourse.

i.e. radical subjectivism is bogus and lends too much mystical authority to "this is just the way I feel".

fwiw cuz im not sure this is always clear w/ these comparisons i brought up the trey songz comparison bcuz a few tracks on the last album & much of the anticipation mixtape are both fairly unusual considering his reputation as an artist & imo covers very similar 'vibes' to what this is aiming for, but does it more successfully.

and at some point i do kind of think that what this does for listeners that other 'regular R&B' artists dont becomes, well, it does what they dont, and that at some level its simply reactive.

see i'm more interested in what leads some people to download The Weeknd's songs or album and get excited about it when that connection doesn't occur for most other new R&B records outside of maybe The-Dream -- it seems like a matter of being only receptive to that music when it comes from certain avenues more than there being something that distinct and unusual about the music itself.

in my case, it was cuz jaxon recommended it!

yes but you check for r&b outside of the weekend, so that doesn't really count

i don't i don't nec wanna be the strawman for 'indie' 'blog reader' who only listens to something if it's weird. but i might as well accept parts of it even though i dislike indie rock and i don't read blogs.

― jaxon, Thursday, March 24, 2011 3:24 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark

2 of your first 3 posts on this thread were links to blogs, i'm sorry if that led me to make scandalous assumptions about your web browsing habits.

yes but you check for r&b outside of the weekend, so that doesn't really count

― wavy g. wavegarten (J0rdan S.), Friday, March 25, 2011 2:42 AM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ha yeah i know i wasnt really 'making a pt related to the argument' more just saying why i bothered

see i'm more interested in what leads some people to download The Weeknd's songs or album and get excited about it when that connection doesn't occur for most other new R&B records outside of maybe The-Dream -- it seems like a matter of being only receptive to that music when it comes from certain avenues more than there being something that distinct and unusual about the music itself.

― some dude, Thursday, March 24, 2011 4:37 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

srs dont get why you guys have wasted 300 posts itt trying to figure out how The Weeknd is different from "other R&B" i dunno maybe fuckin listen to it it sounds way different

my "avenue" for downloading the weeknd's songs: i heard "the morning" on a youtube link a friend sent me and i really liked it so i listened to the other stuff. when the mixtape dropped this week i downloaded it. NO BLOGS WERE INVOLVED.

also i own a basenji mix:
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/29441_1488590575961_1269860854_1354382_3862676_n.jpg
since she's not 100% basenji, she can bark but rarely does

VERY pertinent

2 of your first 3 posts on this thread were links to blogs, i'm sorry if that led me to make scandalous assumptions about your web browsing habits.
― some dude, Friday, March 25, 2011 2:48 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

Ha. I'd never been to those blogs in my life before. I can't remember where I first heard "what you need", but it made a serious impact and I couldn't find anything else about them on the internet at the time (prob also because I spelled their name wrong). I just posted those links so people could hear the tracks. I was honestly surprised that this thread got so few responses at the time. I sent it to a few friends over IM and still not much. I actually figured deej wasn't feeling it because he didn't really say anything over IM, but I didn't really think that much of it. Tastes are tastes and just because someone doesn't completely agree w me, I'm not gonna change my opinions. But seriously, I'm kind of lolling at all the crazy reactions this thread is getting now that there's argument involved. Now that blogs and pitchfork or whoever is talking about. It's been like a month or something and people are already sick of critics talking about these guys. You guys are kinda silly btw. Just enjoy life, don't worry what critics are saying, what it means to the grand scope of things, smoke a doob, make out w your chick or dude and fucking chilllllll.

remembering that night/septembers coming soon/im pining for the moon

can i just:

btw i'm actually listening to the whole weeknd thing now for this piece - the sacrifices i make - the songwriting is pretty much non-existent, it really is like a particularly boring version of that trey songz mixtape

― lex pretend, Thursday, March 24, 2011 12:23 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark

thank you lex for making this sacrifice

Just enjoy life, don't worry what critics are saying, what it means to the grand scope of things, smoke a doob, make out w your chick or dude and fucking chilllllll.

― jaxon, Friday, March 25, 2011 2:03 AM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark

lol you're posting on a message board started by belle & sebastian fans and populated by music critics

haha for a bunch of p self-aware message board posters some of u guys are getting pretty het up about "blogs"

the weeknd, exciting new blog&b band

i would kind of like an instrumental version of this album

maybe one of you guys who reads a ton of blogs (jaxon?) can let me know if one exists

max at the end of the year can you make a top 10 list of albums you would like if there was no singer

^^^ seconded, also could you post it on your blog

i can make that list right now

• all the albums

make a list of threads that would be better without music critics talking about The State of Music Criticism

some of us like talking abt thinking abt music n stuff sorry

*takes photo in front of plant in kitchen while wearing sunglasses, posts to flickr*

being cranky abt music that u dont like is fun imo sorry we brough bad vibes

oh sorry, didn't realize you guys were having fun.

well yeah man, laugh all u want but i do enjoy thinking thru why i like/dont like things critically & discussing that stuff here

im not sure who u think is being aggy here anyway.

yeah most people in this thread apart from lex aren't really frothing.

"what is worth thinking about with the Weeknd is not why they are special in general, but why they are important or interesting to particular listeners and what needs they are fulfilling for those listeners."

why is what indie listeners think always considered so important? what other demographic gets this attention paid to it?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/mar/24/weeknd-rb-indie

if i hadn't pitched one, would i be seeing any columns at all about any other r&b release of 2011 so far?

why is what indie listeners think always considered so important? what other demographic gets this attention paid to it?

― lex pretend, Friday, March 25, 2011 5:22 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark

this is the real question right - why is the majority of music criticism focused on indie music. if I were spitballing I would suggest it's probably something to do with the current state of music criticism being derived from a tradition of rock-focused criticism that grew out of the rock explosion in the 60s. but I don't know anything about the history of music criticism, so.

nitsuh's latest column re: this - http://pitchfork.com/features/why-we-fight/7948-why-we-fight-12/

idk indie as a whole has a large history of engaging w/ itself in a paratextual way that easily puts it into conversations w/ rock crit. i kindof hinted upthread that hwtd kindof does this connect the dots thing where it finds something similar in the synth washes on Fancy as in the gurgling drones of Live Loop. I kindof think this is what makes indie ideal for conversation w/ rock journalism and kindof closes the loop somewhat to the exclusion of other genres. also bc everyone is out to get lex.

There's an argument that criticism is the lifeblood of indie music, it NEEDS it in a way that r&b, which is a global pop phenomenon, doesn't, but that only really suits the artists who are right at the top of the pyramid and as a result the others tend to disappear withotu trace.

But do what extent do those artists further down actually court the press? It reminds me a bit of the pub argument I had about Night Slugs and Hyperdub getting the lion's share of the dance press through promotion, design, branding, where yr average funky producers get virtually none despite making music that's as good if not better.

The point I'm slowly burrowing towards is that it's not enough just to blame the critics, although many of them are certainly lazy and don't listen to or review things they aren't spoonfed. It's a question of whether the promotional infrastructure is adequate enough in other genres or whether it is failing its artists.

not sure pointing out how indie everything is is the solution to stopping people talking about what indie listeners think.

But do what extent do those artists further down actually court the press? It reminds me a bit of the pub argument I had about Night Slugs and Hyperdub getting the lion's share of the dance press through promotion, design, branding, where yr average funky producers get virtually none despite making music that's as good if not better.

not sure about this, am sure e.g. Donae'O would've done as much press as he could whereas Hyperdub is surely supposed to have some mystique and their stuff isn't likely to appeal to popular clubs in the way much funky would. it is really down to the whims and characteristics of the critics available, and their willingness to intellectualise (write about) dance music that ISN'T thought of as edgy or in any way alt which the two labels you mention do evoke by name alone.

Hah, you're skirting around the point that Hyperdub gets press because it cleaves to an indier sensibility. Artiness, mystique, ease of intellectualisation. Same with Warp in the 90s.

... and Hyperdub's promotional people know how to court that, obviously.

i feel like i'd get my point across better itt if i went full carles and talked about how R&B is 'so hot right now' but only if it has some 'altbro-friendly branding'

i swear to god, people, part of the reason you think the world is dominated by "indie" criticism is because that's all you're reading or considering "criticism." in the US there remain magazines, websites, columns, and reams of daily newspaper coverage of things like mainstream r&b, but for some reason people rarely conceive of them as part of "critical discourse" or real "critical opinion" -- they privilege indie and then ask why indie is so privileged.

the other part is that "indie" stuff -- and many other niches -- developed a purpose to criticism (and grew a community around it) in times when that was the only way it could communicate and exist; it organized along those lines in a way things that functioned as pop didn't. it seems to me that deep critical communities of fandom -- constituencies that are actually organized that way -- are starting to develop for pop and r&b, even if you don't count the massive chunks of twitter and facebook and people's actual lives that ALREADY do that but aren't considered "criticism" because they're not indie enough to be bitched about.

also gr80 otm with this

oh ok, we're the snobs because we don't consider fan updates on social networking sites to be criticism. got it.

although honestly it might not be a bad idea to submit a collection of #teambreezy tweets to the next da capo

yeah i mean, criticism is central to indie but indie isnt central to crit! just because R&B / etc genre crit isnt as fleshed out as indie doesnt mean that those of us who care abt good critical writing of the form should have to do so on indies terms. or am i misunderstanding

if you think daily newspapers, Vibe columns, and black music journalists are on the level of facebook status updates, then yes, that's pretty snobby