★ The Weeknd ★ What You Need ★

to further fan the flames I present to you, their cover art

http://pigeonsandplanes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/TheWeeknd_HouseOfBalloons.jpg

itt deej and lex get mad at tastemakers

lol @ ghost box+last nights party

btw if you like the weeknd you should check out the second jeremih album

jeremih is a way better comp than trey songz

I had never actually heard of Kandi before this thread but having Googled her I think Lex is glossing over the issue of good old fashioned AGEISM in her (and Marsha's) music being overlooked.

Thing is, this happens in indie as well - the internet is full of indie kids screaming at the sky because the indie music they love is being critically overlooked in favour of the Vaccines or Grizzly Bear or whoever.

Genres aren't monoliths for a reason and personally I think it's fine to engage with only a small part of a genre critically or otherwise - (Lex YOU DO THIS with country, and the more female-coded end of indie for that matter) but ppl shouldn't really presume to be speaking for or of the entire genre when doing so - cf NME writers talking about "dance music" in 2007 with exclusive reference to Justice and Simian Mobile Disco.

Dan comparing The Weeknd to the Creep EP is the first thing that's made me want to listen to this actually.

Not having home internet is really starting to fuck with my listening habits incidentally.

btw if you like the weeknd you should check out the second jeremih album

the first one is better though!

personally I think it's fine to engage with only a small part of a genre critically or otherwise - (Lex YOU DO THIS with country

i think i'd be wary of doing it if the only bit of country i engaged with was the one that every other critic was, or if i was framing the country artists i liked as bold new directions for the genre. as it is, taylor swift's huge enough to be assessed as a pop star, and as for sunny sweeney, hardly anyone's talking about her at all.

and i understand ageism being the reason kandi and marsha aren't sold as (or selling like) Hot New Pop Stars, but the critical press covers tons of old people and it shouldn't be an excuse anyway

/btw if you like the weeknd you should check out the second jeremih album/

the first one is better though!

/personally I think it's fine to engage with only a small part of a genre critically or otherwise - (Lex YOU DO THIS with country/

i think i'd be wary of doing it if the only bit of country i engaged with was the one that every other critic was, or if i was framing the country artists i liked as bold new directions for the genre. as it is, taylor swift's huge enough to be assessed as a pop star, and as for sunny sweeney, hardly anyone's talking about her at all.

yah but the first one is more peaky, second has a more even feel

What is the Creep EP?

I think this is partly a structural problem with r&b really, it's so commercially setup that only a very small proportion of artists have any visibility (critically or otherwise) at any given time. And while r&b isn't really bothered with critical consensus or even courting it really it does mean that artists like Dawn Richard or K. Michelle (or even Electrik Red) just fade into the background unless there are people prepared to heavily rep for them. It doesn't feel like it benefits from the internet and mixtape culture in the same was as hip-hop does at all, even though there's no reason why it shouldn't.

number none: creep ft. romy xx - days

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZkwLqhUKdk

xp

Oh yeah, i just thought it was a single rather than an EP.

I think this is partly a structural problem with r&b really, it's so commercially setup that only a very small proportion of artists have any visibility (critically or otherwise) at any given time. And while r&b isn't really bothered with critical consensus or even courting it really it does mean that artists like Dawn Richard or K. Michelle (or even Electrik Red) just fade into the background unless there are people prepared to heavily rep for them. It doesn't feel like it benefits from the internet and mixtape culture in the same was as hip-hop does at all, even though there's no reason why it shouldn't.

this is true - what's depressing is how few people really go all out to rep for less-known r&b artists. especially critics - this is what a critic's job should be!

xp it is an ep, with some good remixes. their next single features nina sky, btw. actually creep are another good example of recontextualised r&b that i really love.

still tho weeknd are p obv going for a mood that is p distinct from all these other artists you are mentioning itt so

^ why does this point get missed. lex it seems like you still feel that they're going for a certain mood + failing but i dont think thats it

Lex's point seems to be "how dare critics value this mood over all the others" but I still think that's an unfair caricature especially of the people in this thread.

that's a shifting-the-goalposts argument though, it could be applied to p much anything, ever. "oh they're not TRYING to do that!"

what i'm reacting to: they get write-ups, across the board, that tie them to r&b, and in many cases are held up as an example of where r&b as a genre should be going. so yeah i think it's fair to assess them on what r&b's genre values are. but also taking into account that they're not trad r&b, it's also fair to compare them to other non-r&b acts recontextualising the genre.

ANYWAY i am actually going to do an article about this now :)

ok this part - 'held up as an example of where r&b as a genre should be going'

i havent seen these writeups?

me neither, they are gen being received as chillwave appropriating rnb and i think the rnb side of their side is in gen being played way down.

of their sound

the terrible sean fennessey piece linked upthread

also i've been criticising this for being unremarkable by CHILLWAVE standards as well as r&b

Yeah you're more of a Neon Indian man.

yes you are clearly a massive chillwave fan

i don't have any investment in chillwave as a thing but people have kept saying that a lot of the UK bass music i like is chillwavey - i don't mind if it is or isn't

That stuff is chillwavey in the way that Kompakt is chillwavey, ie people are just talking nonsense based on vague sonic signifiers rather than function, scene or anything else.

so what you're saying is that you like chillwave from the vantage point of other critical discourses?

he likes chillwave that is actually what people in other genres are making, those people being people who would make chillwave if they weren't in other genres.

Souljazz's 'Rapegaze 2: The Dallas - London Connection' has a decent explanation in the liner notes.

the weather is very nice

What I was getting at is that "OMG this is chillwave" is the sort of sub-Whiney line people take when they have no idea about the genre in question but a stupid compulsion to have an opinion about it nonetheless.

Might get an ice-cream at lunchtime though.

I dunno, where does chillwave end anyway? Are Forest Swords chillwave? Creep?

I don't think "Days" is particularly R&B-ish? When I'm comparing it to The Weeknd songs I'm listening to, I'm thinking more about sound palette than execution; the singer for The Weeknd sounds too much in the Chris Brown/Ne-Yo/Raphael Saddiq being lazy vein to totally dismiss R&B influence upon their sound so I don't really get some of Lex's objections.

Also maybe I am granting more credit than is due because of how disappointing I found that Jamie XX/GSH album, which is currently my Event Zero for "music that is too sloppy to pull off what I think it's trying to do".

I dunno, where does chillwave end anyway? Are Forest Swords chillwave? Creep?

CHILLWAVE CONTINUUM

the ch'uum, as it is referred to at conferences all over england.

jeremih is a way better comp than trey songz

― ico, Thursday, March 24, 2011 12:13 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

have u heard 'anticipation'? i think its iciness is a lot closer to what this is aiming for

itt deej and lex get mad at tastemakers

― dayo, Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:03 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

who's mad?

im scoffing disdainfully @ them

I've listened to this now and much of it sonically is real 1998 arse-end of trip-hop stuff. Has he sung over the Sneaker Pimps yet?

i too was thinking along those lines Matt, especially Curvatia by SpaceK.

[granted i haven't heard that album in years and need to dig it out to see if there is a connection .. ]

still tho weeknd are p obv going for a mood that is p distinct from all these other artists you are mentioning itt so

― ico, Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:35 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^ why does this point get missed. lex it seems like you still feel that they're going for a certain mood + failing but i dont think thats it

― just sayin, Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:39 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

haha yeah I love how lex is all sputtering "b-b-b-but you should listen to marsha ambrosius!!!' when marsha ambrosius sounds nothing like this

anyway I just relistened to the second jeremih album and it's like a really good version of this album except it came out first

also you should skip the track with 50 on it

i never heard the second jeremih....to spotify i go.

it's great!

some good points here: http://blatantineptitude.blogspot.com/2011/03/jj-abrams-ication-of-music-on-web.html