the Shiina Ringo thread

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I'm reluctant to bring some of this up on Ringo Jihen, not because they are averse to any critical comments about Shiina Ringo, but because they know so much more than I do, have copies of things I don't have, or have real copies of things I only have in mp3 form, etc. So I'd rather just wait until the album is out before I start making more general comments.

― Rockist Scientist, Hippopoptimist (RSLaRue), Monday, 5 February 2007 23:06 (nineteen years ago)

Actually, yeah, that's the one you just linked too there: that's the kind of Shiina Ringo singing that leaves me ambivalent at best. I don't think her singing style, here, is really suited to the material. I'm not sure it's even her voice though, I think it's the singing style.

― Rockist Scientist, Hippopoptimist (RSLaRue), Monday, 5 February 2007 23:08 (nineteen years ago)

I definitely will take "Tsumiki Asobi" over that "Sakuran," but that doesn't mean I wouldn't take some more recent material over "Tsumiki Asobi." (Though I have to say my appreciation for the older song seems to increase with each listen.)

― Rockist Scientist, Hippopoptimist (RSLaRue), Monday, 5 February 2007 23:18 (nineteen years ago)

I'm a little hesitant about her English singing as well, actually. There are very few singers that can emote in a second language anywhere near as well as they can with their first (in fact, none are coming to mind).

I'm into this version of 'Sakuran'. She's playing it straight, so her style sticks out, not a smooth fit. I'd be scared if it were a smooth fit though, and I like the song (if it's not her best).

I don't listen to the first album much at all. 'Tsumiki Asobi' is grade A inexplicable pop though, playing it for my friend Keith & his comment when it got to the middle: "well I guess you could call that a guitar solo"

― milton parker (Jon L), Monday, 5 February 2007 23:31 (nineteen years ago)

She's playing it straight, so her style sticks out

Straight, huh? To me it just seems too mannered (though no doubt you could make that complaint about her singing in lots of songs by her that I like).

I sent a link for the "Konoyo Yo Kagiri" video to someone at work on whom I have historically inflicted a certain amount of unwelcome music sharting (we were kind of friends at one point) and I was relieved that she liked it. I was pretty sure she would though.

― Rockist Scientist, Hippopoptimist (RSLaRue), Monday, 5 February 2007 23:45 (nineteen years ago)

It's actually pretty exciting that I only just found about her last Spring, and not only was there already a terrific back catalog to explore, but there is this new album coming out, and there are new live DVDs all the time (not that I've bought any, but I get to see clips and so on). It's nice to have discovered her while there's still a fair amount of activity. I wonder what will happen after this new album? Will it be a couple years before a Tokyo Jihen album (I do think there will at least be a third one)?

― Rockist Scientist, Hippopoptimist (RSLaRue), Monday, 5 February 2007 23:57 (nineteen years ago)

i only bought her first (solo) record when i was in tokyo recently. it's awesome though - a very assured, confident, and at times breathtaking debut.

if the other stuff measures up, or even tops this (as apparently it does), i'll be extremely impressed

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 08:24 (nineteen years ago)

I'd recommend trying her second album next, Shouso Strip. As long as you started with the first, you might as well move chronologically (although I guess you could skip the covers EP or whatever it was, not that I've actually heard everything on it).

― Rockist Scientist, Hippopoptimist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 13:09 (nineteen years ago)

sweet, i will try and get my mitts on that second one.

amazed at how prolific she is, still being under 30 and all.

― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 13:37 (nineteen years ago)

(I don't know, Milton, SR's singing on the clips from this new album is kind of annoying me. Everything else about the tracks is okay. I wish she weren't singing so much in English.)

― Rockist Scientist, Hippopoptimist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:05 (nineteen years ago)

((speaking of that "bonus" - that you once mentioned yourself, Roskist'O -- mm, Shiina Ringo's debut would make a great one:))

― tiit (tiit), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:35 (nineteen years ago)

I don't own the debut, but anyway, the package was sent yesterday (believe it or not). (And I think I did throw in some SR/TJ stuff. I can't even remember what I added at this point though.)

― Rockist Scientist, Hippopoptimist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:49 (nineteen years ago)

Thank you, Rockist'O.

― tiit (tiit), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 21:10 (nineteen years ago)

two weeks pass...

Digging the new record. The fact that so much old material is on there is kind of a drag, but the new arrangements are excellent for the most part. The singing in English … I dunno.

― Brakhage, Thursday, 22 February 2007 00:59 (nineteen years ago)

I like parts of it a lot. Apparently the new versions of the four tracks from KZK are actually pretty much the same as the version on Baishou Ecstasy, but I'm only familiar with that from checking it out on youtube, and not that many times really. I think her English sounds good on "Kono Yo no Kagiri," and maybe "Oiran" (but that's because the words on that seem so vapid, I think--and I do like the song). "Gamble" is my favorite. Despite the hype (er, at least in Japan), this isn't really a "Shiina Ringo is Back!" album on a really grand scale. It's obviously more of a stop-gap measure.

― Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 22 February 2007 01:12 (nineteen years ago)

"Gamble" is fantastic, yeah.

― Brakhage, Thursday, 22 February 2007 01:24 (nineteen years ago)

debuted at #1 on the j-charts today

it doesn't feel like album no. 4 in the same way that her double disc set of covers usually doesn't get counted as an album. and it's really not a solo album, it's her album with Saito Neko, who's doing all the conducting & arrangements for that 70 piece orchestra. since half the album is taken from her her old catalog, a lot of the work is his. and the version of 'yokoshitsu', it's literally a mashup -- not one new note recorded, just the techno version of 'yokoshitsu' spliced in with the orchestral version of 'la salle de bain'... pretty bizarre to include that as a full-on album track.

the Baishou Ecstasy DVD is a document of her first big concert before KZK came out, and it threw people anticipating a full-on rockstar comeback, coming out with Saito's chamber jazz band & opening with an Edith Piaf cover, but her vocals weren't as strong as they could have been that night -- so these feel like idealized studio versions of the arrangements from that one concert, they couldn't throw those away. and while there are some good new songs on here, I agree this really does not feel like a new album at all, either in sequence or content. the arrangements are impressively huge, but they're also kind of playing it safe, not many surprises. even the electronic moments seem really reigned in.

the english title is Japanese Manners though Frecklegirl's literal translation is more like Present-day Sex Industry, which is very Ringo. The whole album is worth it just for 'Konoyo No Kagiri', and I know that the rest is bound to grow on me.

― Milton Parker, Thursday, 22 February 2007 01:37 (nineteen years ago)

There's a very interesting barely audible humming thing (like, at around 1:35) that Shiina Ringo is doing on "Gamble" that reminds me of some things Kate Bush does on Aerial.

― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 23 February 2007 03:04 (nineteen years ago)

(Well, interesting to me partly because of the similarity, and partly because I haven't really noticed this before in a Shiina Ringo song, though I still am far from knowing her work inside out.)

― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 23 February 2007 03:05 (nineteen years ago)

I LOVE "Oiran"

I haven't been too big of a fan of her English singing before this album, but it has grown on me here, even on Kuki, where it sounds pretty affected.

I actually like all the new versions of the old songs more than the originals (except for "Meisai." She shouldn't have fucked with that one).

That said, I'm still mixed about the giant orchestra. It sounds good, but it often doesn't sound quite...integrated? with the songs. I don't know if that's the word I'm looking for. Maybe it's just when it gets too big and loud or when it comes to the forefront, it starts to sound out of place. Maybe I just don't like the way it's mixed? Still digesting it all though.

― Lingbert, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 04:26 (nineteen years ago)

I like the new "Meisai." This version has more swing (rather than alluding to jazz, while maybe sitting more on the rock side of the fence) and Saito Neko's extended violin solo at the end is great. Although I suppose I miss the bass in the original. I think it's hard to compare because the versions on KZK all hang together so well with one another, and the new album these new versions are coming from doesn't really fit together well as an album.

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 13:46 (nineteen years ago)

(And no way is this new version of stem better than the Japanese KZK version.)

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 13:49 (nineteen years ago)

(I don't know why I didn't capitalize that and put in quotation marks except it's early and I should be shaving.)

― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 13:50 (nineteen years ago)

Violin solo is indeed crazy and awesome

― Brakhage, Thursday, 1 March 2007 01:46 (nineteen years ago)

I wish I could appreciate that solo more.

(And no way is this new version of stem better than the Japanese KZK version.)
I'll probably end up agreeing with you on this, actually. I always feel like the KZKNH (serious question: why does everyone write KZK and not KZKNH? What happens to No Hana?) version of "Stem" is something I should like more, but it never clicks. I think I just like hearing a fresh take on it.

I've listened to "Oiran" probably 10 times in the last 2 days. It's very rare for me to listen to a song that much (though I did it not too long ago with "Stoicism," actually)

― Lingbert, Thursday, 1 March 2007 03:24 (nineteen years ago)

Perplexed by my initial reactions to Muzai Moratorium and Shouso Strip. I think I might like the former more than the latter, overall, although "Yami ni furu ame" and "Honnou" are more mind-blowing than anything on the first album. The songs on Shouso Strip seem really sprawling, and I don't like it that much when she gets into sprawling mode. (People who want more in-depth explanations for the reasons behind the reasons why I like things can put me in their killfile, although I presume I will have more specific things to say later.)

― Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 1 March 2007 23:53 (nineteen years ago)

got the new Dai Ikkai Ringohan Taikai no Moyo DVD last night. compiles the two concerts at the 2005 fan convention onto one disc - first half w/ Neko's big band orchestra in a huge concert hall, second half in a very small room, Ringo w/ guitarist / vocalist Kiyoshi & his daughter Maki on flute.

the Neko half is _insane_. I was a little nervous about so much of set list being identical to the 2003 Baishou DVD and the new album, but this made the best first impression of the three -- comes together better w/ stronger vocals than Baishou and has more energy & crackle than the polished studio versions on the new album. In a way this 2005 show helps me understand how this new album came about -- they nailed it so well with this concert, there was no way they couldn't go ahead and try a full-on studio album with these arrangements -- though I'm thinking that when you've got arrangements for orchestra that you can play live, they're just always going to sound better in concert.

the second half -- I like Kiyoshi's guitar playing but an entire set of acoustic spanish guitar & flute arrangements of Ringo songs wore me down a bit. The opening is worth it though -- Ringo solo accompanying herself on harmonium, playing very quiet versions of 'Koufukuron' & 'Gibs'. I had big hopes for her cover of Julie London's 'Fly Me To The Moon' but this latin version does not quite work for me.

there's a high end whine in the sound during the Neko half that's pretty bad. sounds like Sachiko M is sitting in with the band on sinewave sampler. whoever mastered this is deaf. sounds fine on laptop speakers, though it's frustrating because the first half is so good you really want to turn this up on a good system.

some of the tracks on the new album is growing on me a bit. this is the only album of hers where I've ever felt like skipping around on it. it's really Saito Neko covering a selection of Shiina songs, rather than a cohesive album. her last four albums have all featured symmetrically titled songs -- the fact that this one doesn't almost feels like it's an admisssion that this is more of a compilation / collaboration than an album

the packaging for the limited edition is, as always, a total class act

http://www.apple.com/jp/articles/interview...ngo/index2.html

― Milton Parker, Friday, 2 March 2007 00:07 (nineteen years ago)

trying that again: Apple on Apple campaign went up two weeks ago:

link

― Milton Parker, Friday, 2 March 2007 00:10 (nineteen years ago)

Is this a limited edition DVD for Ringohan members or is it available for anyone to purchase?

― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 2 March 2007 00:20 (nineteen years ago)

it's general release.

cover - http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9387/b000lprn7c01ss500sclzzznz8.jpg (linked (not hotlinked) as per usual from http://ringoran.wordpress.com/)

the Neko violin solo during 'Meisai' this time... happens as 90% of the big band leaves the stage and he's so into it, it almost seems like they're running from him. wish I could have been there.

― Milton Parker, Friday, 2 March 2007 00:31 (nineteen years ago)

I love how there's like a droney drilling sound at the end of Kyoiku--oh wait, motherfuckers are still doing some kind of construction project on the same little patch of sidewalk they've been working on for three or four weeks now.

― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 2 March 2007 00:51 (nineteen years ago)

Does anyone else think the opening of Shouso Strip sounds ridiculously like Magical Mystery Tour (in a good way)? So many Beatlesisms in Ringo Shiina, but she's got the melodic sense and the studio invetiveness not to fall flat when she's echoing the Beatles (plus there are generally borrowings from dozens of other directions).

― Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 3 March 2007 23:02 (nineteen years ago)

So I take it that the relative silence surrounding this new release means that we're all a bit underwhelmed by it?

― Patrick South, Sunday, 4 March 2007 17:13 (nineteen years ago)

You probably aren't looking for my opinion again, but it doesn't feel much like an actual album. It's mostly new versions (some not so new given similar arrangements have appeared in earlier video material) of older material. There are individual tracks that are quite strong, but it's not something I imagine myself listening to a lot straight through. For me, the standout tracks are: Gamble, Hatsukoi Shoujo, Yokushitsu, Oiran, Ishiki, Meisai, Poltergeist, and maybe Kono Yo no Kagiri, but I still feel it has nothing to do with the other songs. I could see Yume no Ato growing on me in the future. So that's not bad, but somehow the overall package is a bit uninspiring.

― Rockist Scientist, Sunday, 4 March 2007 18:01 (nineteen years ago)

the high points are still great and I wouldn't be surprised if this one eventually gets more western attention than Adult did. and most of the things that throw fans about this record (the traditional big band arrangements & the number of reused songs) wouldn't matter to new listeners at all. (though it's a little weird that Konoyo No Kagiri is her first single on iTunes UK, imagine if Bjork's first western single were It's Oh So Quiet)

I see this one as the same kind of fun detour that Utaite Myoli was (the double disc set of covers that came out the year before actual-3rd-record KZK), except I like it a lot more. this kind of sets things up for the third Jihen album.

― Milton Parker, Monday, 5 March 2007 10:06 (nineteen years ago)

I wouldn't be surprised if this one eventually gets more western attention than Adult did.

You're probably right, if only because the film Sakuran will get some sort of underground exposure here, and that will interest some people who see it in the music.

most of the things that throw fans about this record (the traditional big band arrangements & the number of reused songs) wouldn't matter to new listeners at all.

I do see criticisms of the quality of her singing in English (especially on some songs), and that could be as big a turn-off to non-fans as to fans (but I suppose her more typical singing in Japanese will be an even bigger turn-off, simply because it's a foreign language).

Meanwhile, I can't stop listening to Muzai Moratorium, which is making me smile more than anything I've heard for a while.

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 5 March 2007 14:29 (nineteen years ago)

Speaking of which, I wonder if Charlie Howard is still in Tokyo and if he has noticed any SR hype.

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 5 March 2007 14:30 (nineteen years ago)

EmilScherbe on Ringo Jihen just pointed out that Saito Neko played in Killing Time, and also joined Haniwa All Stars for their 1991 live album. Haniwa's my favorite japanese band of all time. I should have known -- though yeah, it's tough to keep track of names when you can't read Kanji

― Milton Parker, Monday, 5 March 2007 20:03 (nineteen years ago)

Killing Time: http://www6.wind.ne.jp/tabockly/killing.htm

Itakura Bun (guitar), the leader of Chakra started a sound experiment with one of the band's member Shimizu Kazuto( keyboard, reeds, marimba) and sound engineer Ma*to (tabla, synthesizer, computer) in 1982 "to kill time". This trio named themselves Killing Time in 1983. In 1984 a violinist Saito Neko joined the band and gave many gigs.(These 4 are the very core of Killing Time.) They've built up the enormous family of telented musicians together with Semba Kiyohiko's Haniwa project as "Haniwa-Killing Time connexion" .

ok this is crucial information

― Milton Parker, Monday, 5 March 2007 20:25 (nineteen years ago)

I'm not sure if this is frowned upon on ILX, but those having as much trouble getting to listen to Shiina Ringo as I was might want to go here;
http://www.jpopmusic.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=66828&start=0
and go to page 2 and scroll down.

― bidfurd, Monday, 5 March 2007 20:39 (nineteen years ago)

that... link...

how

― Milton Parker, Monday, 5 March 2007 20:49 (nineteen years ago)

he does kind of explain, but still.

― bidfurd, Monday, 5 March 2007 20:51 (nineteen years ago)

he can explain all he likes, I'll never understand

I was actually handling ok until I got to the complete discography of Geinoh Yamashirogumi

― Milton Parker, Monday, 5 March 2007 21:14 (nineteen years ago)

Anyway, I don't think people who are remotely interested in Shiina Ringo are going to have trouble hearing some things by her, online, at this point. If people aren't hearing her, it's because they don't know about her or aren't interested.

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 5 March 2007 21:24 (nineteen years ago)

Oh I dunno, I've never mastered soulseek or oink or those kind of things. A couple of her tracks have turned up on mp3 blogs, and there's the youtube stuff you've both posted. But there's not a thing for her on amazon.co.uk. I'm not very internet savvy I suppose.

I'm not sure I like her at the moment by the way, but I'm going to keep listening.

― bidfurd, Monday, 5 March 2007 21:45 (nineteen years ago)

(edges toward the monolith)

That thread … it's full of records

― Brakhage, Tuesday, 6 March 2007 00:06 (nineteen years ago)

"Kabukichou no joou" - pure fucking genius.

― Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 6 March 2007 04:07 (nineteen years ago)

that's an amazing song. there's an fantastic version of it with saito that opens the new DVD. it should have been on heisei fuuzoku.

― Milton Parker, Tuesday, 6 March 2007 04:20 (nineteen years ago)

Oh yeah, that's on youtube.

I'm actually really reining myself in here. I just got those four CDs and it's like phase 2 of my Shiina Ringo zealotry.

― Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 6 March 2007 04:40 (nineteen years ago)

That song is so perfect for the Edith Piaf wannabe treatment.

― Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 6 March 2007 04:42 (nineteen years ago)

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