ODD FUTURE WOLF GANG KILL THEM ALL

Yeah, but anyone who was 16 knows you don't need to be from HARLEM IIRC to be misanthropic or nihilistic or offensive. It's a trademark of alienation that transcends all class and race boundaries

The thing about Big L and Odd Future and Cannibal Corpse and Blowfly and Anal Cunt and Bathtub Shitter and Whitehouse is that society let them down and they feel alienated, outside, out of step.

pretty sure most artists like to think they're alienated, outside, out of step

lol yeah guys ilxor thinks tyler invented "no homo".

hah i am well aware this is a 'thing' & dont think tyler invented it, have heard before etc.- funny to assume otherwise tho?

The thing about Big L and Odd Future and Cannibal Corpse and Blowfly and Anal Cunt and Bathtub Shitter and Whitehouse is that society let them down and they feel alienated, outside, out of step.

― i been serving humble pie since he had small faces (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, March 14, 2011 7:21 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

nah i know this, im not saying harlem is the only place that this is possible! im just saying the content of the music here, to my exp., isnt bringing enough context to make all the rape jokes bearable. maybe when i was 18 i woulda been all BADASS!! about it but i think im just too old for it now.

The thing about Big L and Odd Future and Cannibal Corpse and Blowfly and Anal Cunt and Bathtub Shitter and Whitehouse is that society let them down and they feel alienated, outside, out of step....and they intentionally say really ignorant shit guaranteed to offend large swaths of the populace (while hopefully selling to a large enough audience to make it worth it).

deej you realize that you're making a value judgment that growing up poor and in harlem gives you a reason to be nihilistic while growing up, say, without a father, or just feeling alienated for whatever reason, doesn't -- or at least doesn't give you a good enough reason

i mean i guess that's your decision to make but it's kinda BS

xpost Just so we don't mistake them for the alienated, outside, out of step artists like James Taylor, the Arcade Fire and Nina Simone.

deej you realize that you're making a value judgment that growing up poor and in harlem gives you a reason to be nihilistic while growing up, say, without a father, or just feeling alienated for whatever reason, doesn't -- or at least doesn't give you a good enough reason

i mean i guess that's your decision to make but it's kinda BS

― J0rdan S., Monday, March 14, 2011 7:33 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark

dude its not how they *grew up* for the last time its about what they put in the music itself

for all i know tyler's had a really rough life, but i wish his music would reflect that balance more if he wants to get away w/ expressing that kind of shit & instead he just comes across as a 4chan type 'irreverent' OTT type to me

my first post itt said Big L's CAREER not his LIFE

itargument

for all i know tyler's had a really rough life, but i wish his music would reflect that balance more if he wants to get away w/ expressing that kind of shit & instead he just comes across as a 4chan type 'irreverent' OTT type to me

that does sound like you're saying "a person who had a rough life can 'get away' with being noxious, a person who hasn't cannot." which is weird place-of-privilege stuff. his music does not indicate that he's had a rough life, so therefore, when he expresses something noxious you are less likely to feel/enjoy/excuse it.

idk i figured the casual nihilism of *teen years* is basically why ppl like this band, empathy or nostalgia. like i guess the ways in which they are repellent little douchebags strikes a chord w/ me and figured this would be the general mode of reception or w/e

that does sound like you're saying "a person who had a rough life can 'get away' with being noxious, a person who hasn't cannot." which is weird place-of-privilege stuff. his music does not indicate that he's had a rough life, so therefore, when he expresses something noxious you are less likely to feel/enjoy/excuse it.

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, March 14, 2011 7:45 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

his irl life doesnt really have to do w/ it, im talking about the music im listening to ffs

i said 'tyler might have had a really rough life' making a point that it doesnt really matter bcuz his music doesnt have the kind of depth to me needed to keep me from being put off by random rape jokes

So his music doesn't sound like he's had a rough enough life. It sounds like he's a 4Chan nerd.

but the subtext is that if he did have a rough life (like big l) then his music would have that depth to you and you'd find his nihilism rewarding

All of this is a really really elaborate way of saying I like "Big L and I don't really care for Odd Future". Great. Lock thread.

Oh wait other people might actually care about Odd Future. Nevermind. Leave it open.

All of this is a really really elaborate way of saying I like "Big L and I don't really care for Odd Future". Great. Lock thread.

― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, March 14, 2011 7:59 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

no shit? isnt that what everyone on this thread is doing? im not the one who started arguing w/ myself

I think everyone measures the 'noxiousness' of music against its depth, wit, skill, etc. context is definitely a potential trap - lots of hateful dudes are also self-pitying - but very few of us are successful about keeping a hard line about this stuff.

for all i know tyler's had a really rough life, but i wish his music would reflect that balance more if he wants to get away w/ expressing that kind of shit

I kinda pride myself on my ability to parse sentences & tease out multiple meanings but how you can claim that this says anything other than "because his music does not indicate that he's lived a rough life, I can't give him a pass for the things he says" (implying, consequently, the inverse: that people from harder circumstances are somehow able "to get away w/ expressing that kind of shit) is beyond me. This also does seem to be a recurring feature of your hermeneutical approach. that's right your hermeneutical approach

http://notafraidofyourpain.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Train_wreck_at_Montparnasse_1895.jpg

So his music doesn't sound like he's had a rough enough life. It sounds like he's a 4Chan nerd.

― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, March 14, 2011 7:57 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

but the subtext is that if he did have a rough life (like big l) then his music would have that depth to you and you'd find his nihilism rewarding

― J0rdan S., Monday, March 14, 2011 7:58 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

no, it sounds like hes not making his life compelling enough to excuse rape jokes. its not about a rough life 'excusing' rape punchlines, you guys need to get over your assumption about what im saying that i never actually said. its that offensive jokes arent 100% offputting when they are being used to a wider purpose. L wasnt just random rape punchlines, it was the logical extension of street-bred sociopathy. im not asking tyler to rap that he has a rough life to make it ok, i dont care what the path is, i just think right now its a lot of empty offensiveness

"isnt that what everyone on this thread is doing?"

I thought everyone was misinterpreting, insulting, making fun of you?

"it sounds like hes not making his life compelling enough to excuse rape jokes. its not about a rough life 'excusing' rape punchlines"

Seriously deej you wonder why people misinterpret your moronic ramblings?

I kinda pride myself on my ability to parse sentences & tease out multiple meanings but how you can claim that this says anything other than "because his music does not indicate that he's lived a rough life, I can't give him a pass for the things he says" (implying, consequently, the inverse: that people from harder circumstances are somehow able "to get away w/ expressing that kind of shit) is beyond me. This also does seem to be a recurring feature of your hermeneutical approach. that's right your hermeneutical approach

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, March 14, 2011 8:02 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

you are not parsing this correctly at all.

tyler's rape jokes strike me as context-less rape jokes which i find off putting

i never specificed that he had to have a rough life for it to be worthwhile, i wasnt the one who brought that up! thats one possible path. so is, i dunno, if he happened to be writing from the perspective of a creepy character who he later judged in some way, or any other number of things! there are endless ways to make offensive content less outright off-putting through use of context and i NEVER implied that Big L's was the only approach (his is shallower than many rappers in fact, although still easier for me to put up w/ than this group)

Seriously deej you wonder why people misinterpret your moronic ramblings?

― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, March 14, 2011 8:05 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

fuck yourself

well this was lovely

"it sounds like hes not making his life compelling enough to excuse rape jokes. its not about a rough life 'excusing' rape punchlines"

yeah that was poorly worded. theres no 'excuse' -- but when talking about what i want to spend my time listening to, its about tyler not making his music compelling enough to let me put up with rape jokes while listening to it.

clear?

See deej because you grew up on welfare I am more willing to excuse your "fuck yourself" than I would another poster whose style was less informed by poverty. Like ilxor for example who we all know was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.

alex in sf is pretty much the most obnoxious dick on ilx, no mean feat

xp That's fair btw. Frankly that was all you needed to say in the first place.

is there an ilx alex in every city in the world?

Haha if that wasn't coming from a guy who I am pretty sure is jealous that he isn't number one with a bullet it'd be a lot more impressive.

alex in sf is pretty much the most obnoxious dick on ilx, no mean feat

alright, admitting I was just lurking on this thread myself until a special guest star dropped the most hilarious rationalization of OF admiration yet, this is a rather ironic post to introduce yourself on a 2900+ post thread with.

you guys are all ridiculous, honestly

i don't listen to odd future and can understand deej's argument perfectly fine

dude its not how they *grew up* for the last time its about what they put in the music itself

― deej, Monday, March 14, 2011 8:41 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

for all i know tyler's had a really rough life, but i wish his music would reflect that balance more if he wants to get away w/ expressing that kind of shit & instead he just comes across as a 4chan type 'irreverent' OTT type to me

― deej, Monday, March 14, 2011 8:42 PM (19 minutes ago)

what i take this to mean is that whether they've "lived a tough life" is irrelevant; they could make shit up for all he cares if they surround the offensiveness with a DIEGETIC narrative that helps him put it into context. it's a perfectly sound and personal point and you assholes gang up on him, because it's easy, like he's some sort of auteur fetishist

a million xposts

well the idea that there is no context at all to tyler's offensiveness is imo just a wrong reading of the music

i think its more that we disagree about how effective it is. but to each their own

xxp yeah, but there's no actual criteria for determining whether OF do this any more or less than, say, big l other than subjective opinion. cos clearly plenty of people do find the 'context' of odd future's gay slurs (i.e. the rapping and production, you know, the music) compelling enough to find them worthwhile as musicians. i'm sure if you spend a ton of time listening to a billion blog rappers you can spot all the individual things they do that make them unique and talented all over the place in other tracks here and there, but i hadn't heard anything at all that instantly clicked with me like odd future in the same way until i heard them. and a large part of that was the production too, which i think has been overlooked as a reason why people might initially be drawn to them rather than other rappers who theoretically do the things they do better.

like, it seems to me that deej was able to identify however much w/ big l's upbringing/life whatever and he was able to understand and accept that context and how it informs big l and his music. meanwhile, ppl like me and noz and whiney and whoever else immediately see the context in tyler's offensiveness because it something that we experienced when we were growing up and it's easy for us to say "yeah i knew tons of kids like this i understand exactly what they're doing and why they're doing it and where this comes from". i think this was clear early on deej when you were talking about odd future being influenced by 4chan or /b/ and some of us were like "no really this is just how skater kids in high school are". and just how you read odd future as "context-less rape jokes", there are TONS of people (probably not in this thread) like for instance robert christgau (and if i'm imagining an xgau CG review of big l than apply what i'm saying to dr. dre) that listen to big l and go "this guy is just an ignorant asshole that takes pride in beating up women and gays."

i r with k3v/deej. even tho i agree w/ j0rdan/noz in that there's something more to it both artistically & ito personality,likeability, than immature jokes i can understand someone not seeing it or thinking it a thin cover for repulsive content

aerosmith there was very little action on any rap threads while deej & whiney were banned & altho i find u an exceedingly pleasant & hilarious poster u are insufferable & relentless in deej pile-ons. i don't like it when this happens either but i think u exacerbate it w/ your posts. pretending that rap threads were some cornucopia of thoughtful & erudite discussion & not a wasteland of shakey mo posts & disparate youtubes won't make it so

ha j0rdan i think my life was prob way closer to of's than big l's

idk you knew tech n9ne fans irl

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/90/l_b4df2228c32fbb3d84a3c5658ad8da00.jpg

Though my life does not mirror Tyler's or his crew on all fronts, I too have had the experience of not fulfilling the social roles that are expected of young, black males. Though I do not share Tyler's prejudice and/or need to shock, I do know how it feels being frustrated with people who I thought were idiot authority figures ruining my life.

I should have emphasized more on why I find his music intriguing in later posts besides pointing out the negative parts which may have exacerbated the conversation to a train wreck. It was coming from a feeling of frustration of being around a community that is disenfranchised and uses "boogie men" as their attempt to feel in control (those "boogie men" being gays, other non-white races, etc.) I gues instead of always criticizing rappers like Tyler we should be asking why would they want to rap about things like rape and homophobia. That usually entails criticizing hetereosexual male privelege which does not get discuss enough in hip hop.

And when I say discussed I mean discussed in an offline setting rather than the internet.

you guys

http://twitter.com/#!/normmacdonald/status/44835912940662784