ODD FUTURE WOLF GANG KILL THEM ALL

so calling me a 'worthless shithead' is ok but telling ilxor to ease off his diarrhea posting style crosses some line?

as the guy who specializes in hairsplitting you should appreciate this one, pal: I didn't say you're a worthless shithead; I said you were being one

deej aint one to talk about diarrhea posting style imo

anyway- outta here!

golf wang 666 fuck steve harvey

before this goes any further i want to highlight the part where there seems to be some misunderstanding:

"the entire subtext of his career was the fighting-for-your-life growing up in harlem where ppl get shot on a daily basis ('street struck,') the violence & shock tactics are intended to draw attention to how supposedly-evil its made him -- he doesnt throw around 'faggot' to one up ppl on twitter"

in other words, the subtext here is his CAREER, as in his MUSIC, not his life or how poor he 'actually was' -- i dont know why u guys assume i meant 'because hes poor and from the streets hes allowd to say faggot!' except that you have some caricature of who i am and what i think in your heads at all times

i dont know why i rile so many of you dudes up so badly considering jordan's the one in here saying shit like 'all feminist critiques of music are worthless' except that hes got more e-friends

everybody poopsposts

"he doesnt throw around 'faggot' to one up ppl on twitter"

And this distinction matters... oh wait it doesn't.

don't get mad doggie

& further, lead singer of iron & wine, if telling ilxor to stfu means i get permabanned than i want to be permabanned bcuz i dont really want to participate in a discussion forum where i cant occasionally tell a poster to stfu

And this distinction matters... oh wait it doesn't.

― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, March 14, 2011 4:54 PM (39 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

in terms of the quality of the music & my interest in listening to it, it does

i dont know why u guys assume i meant 'because hes poor and from the streets hes allowd to say faggot!' except

when multiple ppl are reading something differently than you intended, it means that you probably worded it wrong

because that's pretty much what your post said

get yr 'îron & wine game up, rap

btw i said feminist critique of music "almost always" (not "all") sucks -- i could expound on that but it doesn't seem pertinent

xxxp no no it's cool because HIS PERSONA is that he's poor and from the streets.

because that's pretty much what your post said

― J0rdan S., Monday, March 14, 2011 4:56 PM (48 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i copy and pasted it seconds ago. do you still think that?

it was just so nice being able to follow and enjoy conversations about rap music while you were gone is all w/o this posing, hardman fronting shit you pull is all. you're a guy with a broad base of knowledge in music I care about and much to share, but as soon as any rap thread threatens to get interesting, you just start shitting all over the place, and it's just such a bummer. Jordan's full of shit in the line you quote too but I hardly see what it has to do w/anything other than your weird cliquish take on how ilx works ("If Jordan said something stupid & I did too omg unfair!" -- bad look man), frankly "feminist critiques of music are worthless" seems like such a self-invalidating point (really? without google, which feminists are you talking about? even with google, "worthless" is pretty intense, you might wanna bear that out a little) that one just ignores it. But here if it'll make you happy, Jordan that's an idiotic thing to say

you rile people up badly because you are incapable of admitting that when, over the course of many years, people tend to hear your speech/writing a certain way, ~the problem is probably not their preconceived notions of you, but something about how you talk/write.~ I don't think my voice sounds nasal, but 20 years of people saying so leads me to understand that yes, it does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VePxbFQ-qfw

get yr 'îron & wine game up, rap

― i been serving humble pie since he had small faces (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, March 14, 2011 4:57 PM (19 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

nicci wayne coyne

in terms of the quality of the music & my interest in listening to it, it does

http://www.principledinnovation.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/Authenticity%20Cover%20low-res.jpg

if telling ilxor to stfu means i get permabanned than i want to be permabanned bcuz i dont really want to participate in a discussion forum where i cant occasionally tell a poster to stfu

dude i understand & certainly am appreciative of the occasional "stfu" from folks, but to burn yr stfu pass on me saying "lol A+" to whiney is not the best use of yr stfu pass; pick yr battles!

you could read the context of big l's music in the opposite manner of deej anyway & you'd also be right

xxxp no no it's cool because HIS PERSONA is that he's poor and from the streets.

― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, March 14, 2011 4:58 PM (5 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

no, his music is about something more.

and like i said, big l's stuff is sometimes 'reprehensible.' i never said he was more morally righteous. i just said his music was more listenable to me because his entire career was a project in bringing a particular context & mentality alive w/ music. this included reprehensible aspects but bcuz he was so artful w/ that context it made that stuff work, that even the offensive parts served a greater purpose

i happen to think that purpose is much, much thinner w/ odd future.

and realize that j0rdan's argument here is essentially, 'because lots of music deej loves has bad parts, he has no right to criticize bad parts in this music,' which is not really a tenable position

whiney this has nothing to do w/ 'authenticity' u goof, im sure that tyler is authentically true to himself too

i'm just excited to learn that m. ward posts here! love your shit bro

"i happen to think that purpose is much, much thinner w/ odd future."

Sounds pretty arbitrary.

and realize that j0rdan's argument here is essentially, 'because lots of music deej loves has bad parts, he has no right to criticize bad parts in this music,' which is not really a tenable position

― deej, Monday, March 14, 2011 6:01 PM (35 seconds ago) Bookmark

no it's not really, or else i would've said that

altho i do think a lot of what you're saying is bullshit

will.i.am of the black eyed peas, im willing to accept that but can you tell me w/ that original post of mine i C+Pd, what was unclear or 'riling people up' about it? isnt it clear that im explaining how his career makes his music less offensive in its *overall effect* to me ?

i happen to think that purpose is much, much thinner w/ odd future.

i think it's actually pretty integral to the purpose of some of this music, if the purpose is to express some kind of unfiltered teen angst experience.

xp

it seems to be of a piece with the parts people seem to like most about them (the vulnerability and weird stuff).

Sounds pretty arbitrary.

― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Monday, March 14, 2011 5:03 PM (46 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i dont understand this. its not 'arbitrary' at all -- ime tyler's contextual stuff is a whole lot thinner than big L's. maybe he will grow & start to develop that world in a more fleshed out way, but for now i still find L to be a more engaging artist who uses the shock tactics in a different & imo more effective way & this makes it easier to put up w/ offensive content.

lord what terrible creature hath i wrought with a low-key post explaining that i don't enjoy tyler's rape joeks & gay slurs ;_;

i think you're giving big l's gay slurs and boasts of violence against women too much credit

I agree with deej that Big L's "faggot" and Tyler's "faggot" are both coming from different places; but using that difference as any sort of yardstick to measure aesthetic work is totally batshit

I agree with deej that Big L's "faggot" and Tyler's "faggot" are both coming from different places

well this is pretty undeniable -- whether one or the other is more offensive is pretty debatable

one of them is coming from HARLEM iirc

so is whether or not it makes the music more 'effective'

i think you're giving big l's gay slurs and boasts of violence against women too much credit

― J0rdan S., Monday, March 14, 2011 5:06 PM (11 seconds ago) Bookmark

i think part of the thing about finding content 'problematic' is that you dont throw up your hands and go, 'well, i guess im just a guy who likes problematic content!' its that you think carefully about your responses to music & why you find some things more offensive than others

im not saying Big L is ok, or should have been on billboard, or is even better than tyler 'objectively,' i was & have been explaining why odd future's 'issues' i find hard to listen to, while big L's dont strike me quite so objectionably

to be honest with you, i dont think big l is the best rapper to use as an example in this case anyway ... i find him pretty overrated and that he def veers more into 'indulgence' when compared to other artists working in similar areas ... that at some pt the devil's son stuff becomes one dimensional -- but of course he died before we could see what hed end up doing

one of them is coming from HARLEM iirc

― some dude, Monday, March 14, 2011 5:09 PM (34 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

can you stop misrepresenting me plz thnx

well this is pretty undeniable -- whether one or the other is more offensive is pretty debatable

― J0rdan S., Monday, March 14, 2011 5:09 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

fwiw i never universalized my own experience w/ this

you think carefully about your responses to music & why you find some things more offensive than others

i'm very aware of why at times big l's music is more offensive to me than odd future's

he wouldn't give that girl a nickel to put cheese on a whopper u_u

i dont understand this. its not 'arbitrary' at all -- ime tyler's contextual stuff is a whole lot thinner than big L's.
--deej

So? Why does this matter?

yeah...straight dudes explaining how "faggot" is to be understood contextually (& also "bitch" but that horse has left the barn, which sucks but what can you do) maybe oughta come with a sticker imo - disenfranchised populations getting told by the privileged whether they're being insulted or not is a shitty look, and while I recognize that this is about your/our/anybody's response/reading, that's kind of neither here nor there: privileged people (=white straight males no matter what their economic bracket) exercising the luxury of which disenfranchising language uses are "ok" is kinda gross

imo

i dont think anyone said whether gay ppl should or should not be offended

this "who's more offensive: some gangsta FROM THE STREETS rapper or some teenage weirdos" argument was boring the first time it happened on this thread back in Nov 2010 btw

ie I have learned me lesson

apologies for leprechaun dialect

"I hope he isn't one of those when I say "gay" or "faggot" I mean this and not actual gay people. Because a message like that is very fuzzy and not answering the question completely. I'm disappointed that the Billboard reporter did not address this in their article."

The Billboard reporter himself still says faggot sometimes, usually after a few drinks. But he's trying to quit. Drinking.

And I honestly don't get the idea that shocking people is the goal of Odd Future. I think Tyler says things that he finds interesting and/or funny. Which is a pretty healthy way to make art, IMHO. It'll be a problem if saying FUCK MARY IN HER ASS still tickles that fancy in five or ten years, but as of now? It seems perfectly appropriate for his age, as Jordan said. I used to work at a high school and the things I heard kids say on a daily basis there would make OF sound absolutely tame. And the Spud McKenzie biographer was OTM too in that this is nothing new. A big part of the reason I fuck with OF is that they remind me of some of the kids I used to hang out with in high school, right down to the rape jokes and casual homophobia. The only thing that's really changed today is the access to and documentation of how kids talk. I mean this was some shit we'd say in a garage or on the basketball court or in a skatepark. Now it's digestible and permanent. In the 90s when Tribe Called Quest made a record about beating up faggots their label shut them down and we didn't hear it for fifteen years. Now the Odd Futures of the world can drop a song with the same theme and get it directly to their fanbase that afternoon.