ODD FUTURE WOLF GANG KILL THEM ALL

I feel very ignorant and "not with it." I avoided this thread because the name of the collective sounded like an indie band i wouldn't get into. Anyway, I finally saw the "Yonkers" video and hated it. It felt like a poor man's Jackass music video.

Last night, I finally listened to Tyler, the Creator's Bastard album/mixtape last night and I have mixed feelings about it. When I heard the first song, "Bastard", I was intrigued. I automatically felt for the kid when describing his life with the piano chords and his gruff voice trying to sound apathetic.

However, what made me feel mixed was the homophobia and the repeated themes already expressed in "Bastard." As I was listening I wondered why do you hate "faggots" and the likes. It made me think he was trying to overcompensate for not having a father around so gay men are the ultimate faceless boogie man to let out his anger.

Though the "Bastard" themes get tiresome by midway the album, they did make me think how hard it is for young U.S. black males (straight, gay, bisexual) and the insecurities we develop due to us not being American standards. Two lyrics really stood out for me which was Tyler calling himself a self racist (which could be due to him being a dark skin black male and the prejudice we get from society because we look dangerous/mad all the time), and that the only way he can get his dick sucked was by a drunk white girl (could speak of the exoticism white people have of black people and Tyler willingness to accept it so he can have some sort of physical contact.)

The music to me is the second star of the show. The beats are fucking raw as fuck. I can definitely hear the Neptunes influence in his sparse work (especially in the 808 drum work).

Actually funny enough Tyler use to frequent a Neptunes fan forum I'm a member of and he would always post about his music on there. I never thought anything of it and never listened. I wish I would have because despite my hating his homophobia and hoping he grows up from that I am proud of the kid nonetheless.

agree the homophobia stands out like a sore thumb. like, i know he's young, etc. and probably has some family issues, but i'm not gonna listen to & support you if bigotry comes up repeatedly in yr music, whether it's in jest or not... suspect others are with me? i mean sure it's hard to avoid the occasional use of gay slurs in hip-hop, and i can avoid it if it's not all over yr music (lookin' at you ghostface) but tyler's album is just plastered front to back with that stuff- kinda sad, imho

Yeah and judging from the number of people in the Odd Future collective one of those guys are bound to be queer to some degree. I can see why Tyler's music can be an outlet for a bunch of kids experiencing the same things he is going through, but using gay men as your anger outlet is NOT OKAY!!!!!!

I hope he isn't one of those when I say "gay" or "faggot" I mean this and not actual gay people. Because a message like that is very fuzzy and not answering the question completely. I'm disappointed that the Billboard reporter did not address this in their article.

syd tha kyd is gay iirc

"occasional use of gay slurs"

dude, its fucking everywhere in hiphop. i dunno why ghostface being a homophobe some of the time makes him less offensive than ofwgkta being homophobes some of the time

lilsoulbrother: there is a gay in the group. not a boy though.

When I first started really fucking with Odd Future heavy, my dad was like, "Really? They talk about some crazy shit and as a female, you're slapping a lot of women in the face."

I'm like, "That's what I do. I slap bitches."

I am well aware of Syd The Kid and her being lesbian but that still doesn't excuse the fact that Tyler may have something against gay men. When mentioning his homophobia, I did it not in a GLAAD way of denouncing him to homophobic hell. I mentioned in a way that it is an unfortunate scar in his artistic aesthetic. Like he is great with the beats, voice, lyrics (well need work on those a little), and the likes. It's just the homophobia is a big pink elephant in the room (pun intended).

the elephant in the room that everyone is talking about

Apparently no one is talking about it with Tyler.

they seem to say a lot of stuff for shock value and then act surprised or amused when people are offended -- i mean that's an old old game to play but on some weird level i'd rather people who use those terms just commit to it and say ok i'm a homophobe, i hate gay people, than to play this game where if you take them at face value or point out that's a shitty thing to say they'll kinda laugh it off and act like you lost the game (or to take a page from the Eminem playbook and make gestures that imply he's not homophobic without ever actually addressing or apologizing for homophobic lyrics)

LOL @ accusations of homophobia leveled at a teenage rap crew who cites Eminem circa '98 as a primary influence and oh yeah also LURVS the RAPE

dude, its fucking everywhere in hiphop. i dunno why ghostface being a homophobe some of the time makes him less offensive than ofwgkta being homophobes some of the time

of course it's everywhere. but i'd rather listen to a ghostface record with 10 great songs and 2 gay slurs than a tyler the creator record with 2 great songs and 30+ gay slurs. not sure it makes rational sense to justify it that way, but i do: it's easier to get past the occasional smdh line when the music's firing on all cylinders and the poor choices of words (putting it mildly!) are fewer between.

and yeah the rape stuff is equally offensive as the homophobia.

and to actually answer yr question, it's not LESS offensive whether it's ghost, tyler or anyone else. i just prefer to be offended much less often than i'm blown away by the music. cost/benefit

the elephant in the room that everyone is talking about

everyone on blogs, but people on blogs talk about everything - no one in the mainstream press that's suddenly fawning over them has brought it up, with either them or the right-on indie label that tyler was signed to.

i'm really not ~offended~ as such by it but it leaps out particularly with them; cuz with most artists i love who have problematic lyrics, there's something else to latch on to and love. there isn't that much with odd future! or at least, pretty much everything about them is bound up with this 12-yr-old-boys-trying-to-shock aesthetic which is so damn boring. i'm listening to a couple of the latest tracks deej posted in the rap thread by cousin fik and square off, who are pretty much entirely random names to me but there's just so much more wit and fantastic imagery in their tracks than i've ever heard from odd future.

i also find the rape stuff way way more reprehensible than occasionally saying "faggot", really don't think making rape jokes in any kind of context, ever, anywhere, is cool. and al otm re: how "ooh it was a joke" is the most pussy cop out ever.

there isn't that much with odd future!

apart from the beats i guess, i like them, though again not loving them enough to really latch on

also to me, odd future seem more by-and-for-teenagers than any disney teenpop i've heard; idk why adults enjoying demi lovato or hilary duff was called creepy, but adults enjoying this puerile aesthetic is ok? oh wait teenage boys good teenage girls bad

it leaps out particularly with them; cuz with most artists i love who have problematic lyrics, there's something else to latch on to and love. there isn't that much with odd future!

lex otm

ilxor u should listen to more of their music before posting so much abt it. as sam said yesterday, blackenedwhite & rolling papers are much less homophobic/rapey, & earl despite being the most rapey is better than anything else they've put out & has complex multisyllabic rhyming patterns which would prob appeal to you more than tyler who's more straightforward

ilxor u should listen to more of their music before posting so much abt it.

the backlash begins!

how exciting!

rap music is offensive! film at 11!

flopson: noted; will do!

whiney, stfu, mr. 1000 albums in a year -- i bet u listened to all of those more than once through & in a controlled, close-listening environment, didn't you? god forbid you give an opinion after a single listen.

does that susan boyle album open up after 3-4 spins? tell me

no rape jokes in "Flashlight" btw guys, y'all should chill out to it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6LlxnFYtvo

I never gave a shit about Eminem, these guys seem to be a bit more unpredictable and all over the place in a way that I find at the very least interesting, if not always appealing.

i don't think tyler is a homophobe nor do i think that he's someone that condones rape -- it is really a generational thing with people that are my age and younger (and this was used by em when he had to defend himself against homophobe allegations) where words, esp slurs, mean less than they used to -- and it's not just "faggot" either, like ime hispanic kids will say "nigga" all the time & to & in the presence of black kids & it's just seen as a normal word -- same with "rape" being used as a verb i.e. "i raped you in x box" -- i'm not condoning any of that esp for ppl that ARE my age and are long out of high school, but it's a thing i think ppl should understand

dude come on

LOL...WORDS

same with "rape" being used as a verb i.e. "i raped you in x box"

i would smdh at anyone who said this

hang around 16 & 17 & 18 year olds

I raped you in ilx box

http://www.martingordon.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/the_more_you_know.jpg

is all i'm saying

no one tyler's age or earl's age would find the phrase "that faggot nigga b.o.b." to be offensive -- this is the world, you guys

yeah but tyler's thing isn't just calling ppl "fagg0t" in a casual bro-sorta context... it's saying shit like "whoa whoa, NO HOMO... i ain't GAY... fagg0t" on his trax, which goes a bit beyond casual banter in his world of young ppl

j0rdan it is not a new thing for 16 yr olds to freely throw around 'faggot' & pretend it doesnt matter

i think it's a generational thing

plus as slang gets ingrained in language it becomes more casual/common

there's a diff btwn using "faggot"/"n1gga"/etc. as terms of endearment & in reference to friends & such-- vs. using them in offensive & non-endearing contexts where u are actually h8ing on ppl that whichever term was originated for

eminem is 38

like, if tyler was jokin around calling his buddies whatever slur, i'd be fine w/ it! it's not used in that context tho

no one tyler's age or earl's age would find the phrase "that faggot nigga b.o.b." to be offensive -- this is the world, you guys

apparently syd doesn't, but ... really? even if they were queer?

anyway i still can't play these records in my house because you know what, my friends might not understand that they shouldn't be offended by all the "faggot" stuff because hey, it's 2011, and this is hip-hop. it's a problem for at least some of the audience, why is that not worth talking about?

j0rdan just wants to reassure the olds that his generation is the shittiest generation

ilxor you've listened to one odd future album once

I can't get over "I raped you in x box" tbh

why is that not worth talking about?

― just woke up (lukas), Monday, March 14, 2011 5:06 PM (24 seconds ago) Bookmark

lol everyone has talked about this so much -- anyway i think it's barely worth talking about because it's a genre/generational thing that is not unique to odd future -- we've talked about this too

if ppl are put off by their lyrics i totally understand that & think they should say that

shakey i heard "rape" used in that context like 3 million times when i was in high school

also ilxor is wrong -- tyler is far from big l

do we think that ofwgkta's appropriation of the swastika means that they think jews are inferior people that should be eliminated from the earth

lol everyone has talked about this so much

maybe i should re-read, but i seem to remember every exchange going like "hey this is sort of bothering me" greeted by "rmde, have you ever listened to hip-hop before"

well the "have you ever listened to hip hop" point is a valid one imo