TOOL - C/D!?

How about this for an exercise. Give me the lyrics of one Tool song. Any Tool song. Then try to act like they're defensible.

"Du Cotton-Eyed Liquid Leiben...BUT WHO'S BUYING?"

How about this for an exercise. Give me the lyrics of one Tool song.

You fail. (We're here to talk about music, not your fucking poetry slams.)

"IF THERE'S NO REAL MEANING IN THE LYRICS THEN IT MEANS NOTHING! AND NO REAL HUMOR EITHER!"

"..."

Tool - Hooker With a Penis

I met a boy wearing vans, 501s, and a
Dope beastie t, nipple rings, and
New tattoos that claimed that he
Was ogt,
From 92,
The first ep.

And in between
Sips of coke
He told me that
He thought
We were sellin out,
Layin down,
Suckin up
To the man.

Well now Ive got some
A-dvice for you, little buddy.
Before you point the finger
You should know that
Im the man,

And if Im the man,
Then youre the man, and
Hes the man as well so you can
Point that fuckin finger up your ass.

All you know about me is what Ive sold you,
Dumb fuck.
I sold out long before you ever heard my name.

I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip shit,
And you bought one.

So Ive got some
Advice for you, little buddy.
Before you point your finger
You should know that
Im the man,
If Im the fuckin man
Then youre the fuckin man as well
So you can
Point that fuckin finger up your ass.

All you know about me is what Ive sold you,
Dumb fuck.
I sold out long before you ever heard my name.

I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip shit,
And you bought one.

All you read and
Wear or see and
Hear on tv
Is a product
Begging for your
Fatass dirty
Dollar

So...shut up and

Buy my new record
Send more money
Fuck you, buddy.

Two of them are by Elvis Costello.
(sorry for the cheapshot i am just kidding)

Now, if you don't want to argue with me on that level, that's your right. But your cheap, stupid mockery is more or less exactly the sort of flashy, unpleasant, and unsound thing I am criticizing in Tool. You're not doing yourself any favors, guys.

Are you a Scientologist?

a) arguing with an incoherent dyed in the wool tool fool is a waste of time.

b) arguing that you can't look past lyrics will get you nowhere fast - every time!

c) ned is right

2A) You're probably right.

2B) Is it better if I argue that I can't look past lyrics? (Not that I'd be inclined to enjoy Tool's sort of heavy guitar-sludge anyway.)

2C) Maybe Ned has been right on occasion. I don't know Ned. Doesn't change the fact that Tool are a lot of compassionless, self-satisfied bastards. (Or, alternately, one compassionless, self-satisfied bastard fronting some guys with musical instruments.) Was probably not entirely wise for me to say it, of course.

Surely Pessimist has some kind of affection for Brian Eno, easily the best exemplar of this school of lyric-writing I can come up with off the top of my head. Beck maybe? A lot of people seem to hate him though. Point is;

Ned Is Right

(Which is not meant to imply that Pessimist might not also be right on some of that, particularly the idea of using a dead rat as a ventriloquist's dummy?)

The thing that separates Tool from them, I think, is Tool's relentless anger and negativity. Yes, it is all right if your lyrics don't do much in and of themselves -- and I didn't say "lyrics" so much as "authorial voice", which is partially semantic, but it's worth pointing out that -- lyrics or no -- you, and I, and everyone else has at least a general sense of what Eno and Beck's aesthetics are about.

I think the difference with Tool is that they're claiming more than that -- they're claiming to have something to say that justifies the deeply unpleasant, violently angry nature of their music (both lyrically and, to a lesser extent, sonically). And when you ask them what it is, it comes out, "bluh bluh corporations bluh the government bluh bluh non-tradional sex acts and/or images of feces bluh!" Don't go all vague on me, Tool, is what I'm saying. Don't show me a lot of disgusting things unless you can justify my unsettlement -- otherwise it's just shock for shock's sake.

And as far as I'm concerned, Tool don't even come close to justifying it -- their message, as it were, is a bunch of empty and bitter cliches. And if I wanted empty cliches, well, there are a lot of empty cliches out there that don't harangue me about ridiculous conspiracy theories or force me to contemplate the image of a man sucking his own dick. I'll probably listen to them, then.

And yeah, I understand that I privilege lyrics more than most people. We may be arguing at cross purposes from the beginning, really.

I tend to judge lyrics on how well the suit the song's mood and meter; Tool rates pretty highly on that scale for me. "Meaning" is a bonus.

Don't just call me pessimist
Try and read between the lines
I can't imagine why you wouldn't
Welcome any change, my friend

That doesn't seem relentlessly negative to me. Also, did you have no metal as a child? I'm getting that feeling.

But perhaps it's more relevant to the question that I hate conspiracy theorists in general, and have the same violently negative reaction to Bill Hicks? I just think their (Hicks'/Tool's) modus operandi -- alleging frequently-unspecified and always-unverified misdeeds on the part of likewise-vague Large and Monolithic Cultural Forces, spuriously connecting said forces to repugnant/scatological images, and slapping a veneer of quasi-mystical overtones on the whole thing -- is both intellectually dishonest and incredibly tiresome.

And what kind of dick musician refers to the listener as "my friend"? Talk about a thing you only do if you have an impractical haircut!

- Do you realize you still haven't even tried to argue against me?

- I like some rap music; I can't say I'm well-versed in the field. What does that have to do with anything?

Don't give me "sense of humor". Have you been reading any of my posts? Way funnier than anything you're coming up with. And the kind of embarrassing, childish dick-and-poo talk Tool engage in is basically the antithesis of humor. (There's something else I could say here, but I won't.)

*blinks*

Look, maybe you really think you're funny -- hey, I often have the same affliction (but I don't AUTOMATICALLY assume I'm funny). All you're doing is coming across as one of the most tendentiously dull writers I've read in a long time (and believe me, when you work even slightly in academia, you get to know the type). There's nothing funny in your posts -- intentionally, at least. But if your goal is deep satire, then congratulations, you really capture the mode of suicidal boredom with aplomb.

I'll also admit this whole thing has upset me more than it probably should. There's something about conspiracy theorists in general, and Bill Hicks/his followers in particular, that just angers me uncontrollably. Sorry about that!

Whatever; this discussion isn't worth anyone's time or anger. No matter what either of us says, I'm going to continue to think Tool are paranoid, arrogant, crass, and inhumane, the worst sort of self-important shock-for-shock's-sake-masquerading-as-Deep nonsense -- as I said, no better than Bill Hicks. Meanwhile, the rest of you are either going to disagree (for various reasons) or not care. Nothing's going to change much.

But enough. I really should stop this.

OMG pessimist IS maynard james keenan

(I'm not from England.)