for the piano: Schubert vs. Mozart vs. Chopin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1oapO3eZ9A

I had one of those weird personal-moment things with a Mozart piano sonata about ten years ago that changed the way Mozart sounded to me. I know his piano sonatas aren't big ambitious things like the company I put them in, but one morning the clock radio went off and it was some piano music and I'm lying there listening goin', what the fuck, this is amazing, who's this, and I lay there hearing the whole thing through and at the end of it, holy shit, Mozart? for real? no way! and ever since then I always feel like I'm hearing real gleaning of genuinely-modern stuff in Mozart. weird little dart-in-from-the-future things. just me probably but it was like I had suddenly heard a voice in his music that I hadn't noticed before, something very distinct.

there's plenty of play and experiment in the sonatas, 'rondo alla turca' often cited as the first use of ~exotic~ eastern material in the western classical tradition

Chopin > Mozart > Schubert

totally voting chopin btw

nice try with the "yeah I used to like him but now I'm older and wiser" verbal jujitsu but chopin is for life — u gettin' soft old man

(altho "the purpose of life is to begin to understand Schubert" intrigues me, admittedly)

nice try with the "yeah I used to like him but now I'm older and wiser" verbal jujitsu but chopin is for life — u gettin' soft old man

― odd future wolves GM trade them all (bernard snowy), Thursday, 3 March 2011 15:33 (58 seconds ago)

tbombing with fiyah like osaka 1945

wish it wasn't 10:30 am so I could be quaffing bourbon and listening to nocturnes :<

someday we'll do a "which classical composer is best to listen to stoned" poll but I'll warn you in advance that Beethoven wins that one too

Chopin just makes me want to kill myself, but I'm not familiar enough with Schubert or with Mozart's piano music to cast any vote. So: nothing.

xxp at some point lurching up from the computer to twirl unsteadily 'round the room with my eyes closed in a look of pure innocent bliss as the camera circles slowly

yo aero have you ever listened to the cycle of preludes+fugues Shostakovich did after Bach's WTC? #24 — in d-minor, THE SADDEST OF ALL KEYS — is basically the trippiest piano shit EVAR

"fireflies circling and dancing above the corpses lying in a field after an epic battle" is how I described it the first time I heard it

have any conspiracy people noticed that Bach was up on the WTC hundreds of years ahead of time

actually there was a memorable ILM thread where somebody asked for light dinner party piano music recs and someone mentioned that piece (referring to it as "the WTC") and the thread-starter was like "are you sure? that sounds like it might be too sad/somber for the occasion"

not making this up, it was pretty funny

btw here is the shostakovich, played by Keith Jarrett(!) because that is the first one I found on the tubes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM9PSUJ95bE

Voting Schubert, he looks like a friend of mine... or vice versa I suppose. Good music too. Nice sounds.

the chillllll sounds of frankie schu

hahaha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q2NPG0F5ko

none could get close to the despondency of schubert, and it's not just the bresson connection

Schubert for sure. Listen to Piano Sonata in B flat (DV. 960). The stuff he was writing was pretty much unprecedented at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkH0cPzg-IU&feature=related

I love me some Mozart but I'll give Fred the piano and Wolfie the strings

If this is STRICTLY about solo piano, then it's Schubert for me. (The Mozart solo sonatas are a nut I have not yet cracked but I am certain it's still my problem, not his).

But if the brief includes Mozart's piano concertos, then I cannot vote. The Mozart PCs vs. the Schubert sonatas? Best stalemate in the universe.

I actually wrote a bunch about Schubert already in the Liszt v LvB v Schumann poll thread.

Chopin, jeez I've tried SO MANY TIMES with him, heard the whole body of work dozens of times, and it just never quite takes. I think I'm just not made for him, constitutionally. He's too perfect! The bleeding edges and ruinous grasp of Liszt and the torn impulses and disjunctions of Schumann suit me better on a gut level.

That's a really interesting take on Chopin, to me. I don't subscribe to it - he seems so emotional to me, the first thing I feel when I hear Chopin is affinity, sympathy, common emotional ground. But I do see what you're saying: every note is in place. Most of my favorite music is rife with imperfection! But Chopin -- the depth of emotion is all to me, with him.

Yeah i feel that it's THERE but it just doesn't pierce into me somehow?

It's funny, if I was a pianist instead of a guitarist/former saxist I wonder how different my responses to all these guys would be...

OK, I'm curious what an example of a classical piece that's appealing because it's "rife with imperfections" would be. I agree that "every note is in place" with Chopin, but that's not exactly the first thing I would think of to describe, say, some of the Op. 28 preludes. Or the coda of the second sonata!

The pieces that initially got me into Chopin were the polonaises.

Well yeah finale of the second sonata, true true. In fact most of the second sonata.

Also the etudes, the barcarolle, the ballades, the scherzos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ_XsVcCtTM

Also the etudes, the barcarolle, the ballades, the scherzos

These all fall into the "almost too perfect" category for me. But life is long and I may change...

I think what we're talking about here is Chopin as being experimental in form. And I would probably even go further and argue that it's more characteristic of his general style. Are the ballades more formally experimental than the polonaises?

And I mentioned the Op. 28 preludes, but there are probably plenty of nocturnes and mazurkas that could qualify as formally experimental miniatures, too.

He is definitely experimental in form, sometimes radically. The Ballades and Mazurkas are probably some of the most so.

OK, I'm curious what an example of a classical piece that's appealing because it's "rife with imperfections" would be.

Entirety of Bruckner, one of my favorite composers! Except maybe Te Deum, I think he gets nearly perfect there, but the rest has these moments of overreach, visible struggle - I sort of love that stuff

rain gathering in the sky, listening to Sonata No. 2 (Olga Kern, Harmonia Mundi, terrific) - Chopin wins this poll for sure

Chopin for me as well, later Schumann stuff has been a revelation for me recently tho

Mozart vs. Capcom

dare I ask wtf Capt. L is talking about

lol

http://www.ndnguyen.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/marvel_vs_capcom_2.jpg

in the pantheon of all-time arcade greats

deeply, deeply relevant

rain gathering in the sky, listening to Sonata No. 2 (Olga Kern, Harmonia Mundi, terrific) - Chopin wins this poll for sure

― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Sunday, 6 March 2011 00:28 (25 minutes ago)

the german gods sent the rain cuz they knew u were going to decide a damn franco-slav could do sturm und drang better than them

it's not the sturm und drang it's the finer feelings that Chopin excels in!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_hk2dup6KMsI/TSTllKjZ6iI/AAAAAAAAAWI/AIno1vO3Dsg/s1600/bismarck.jpg

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Chopin
Because Schubert and Mozart wrote other things besides piano music

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

dang

polonaise in Ab major op 53 olga kern

whole life lived in 6:49

paul badura-skoda

everybody remotely interested in this thread get him doing mozart at the very least

tbombing with fiyah like osaka 1945

just made me laugh out loud, god this place is poorer since you retired

The adagio of K. 332 is something I can listen to over and over.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXtjkNpTPy8

I haven't listened to any classical music in a long time, which is my bad. I had a very stressful weekend and was lucky to find this album on YouTube. I have the CD at home, but not digitized I don't think. As a good Bill Evans nerd, I of course love Chopin, but ultimately, I think Schubert's Impromptus are my favorite. It's just something I always go back to. Years ago, I would have Debussy hands down, but the older I get, I go back to Schubert most frequently.

yeah - Schubert has been taking over more and more of my solo piano bandwidth with each year I get older too - i play him and Schumann the most out of all the 18th and 19th c masters these days. I'm not sure if it's just that I wore out every beethoven sonata and Liszt piece with intensive comparative listening for so many years or if there really is something that makes Schubert a glove for the conscious aging mind

Schubert Impromptus are def among my favorite romantic piano works

my faves

Sonata D784
Sonata D894
Sonatas D958 and D959
both Impromptus sets

I logged in to my Google Play Music Library for the first time in several years this morning because I knew had a bunch of classical saved on it and I came across this album, which is just fantastic. I went through a period a while back where I was where I was pretty much obsessed with Cesar Franck and finding that CD for a quarter at a Salvation Army was just short of finding a holy grail for me. Definitely right there with the Schubert stuff.

I went through a Franck period, definitely due for another! Got an old '50s LP with a side-long version of that Prelude, Chorale, and Fugue. Also fond of his chamber music.

(Old Columbia LP by Witold Malcuzynski)

The last 8 or 9 Schubert sonatas are a total treasure trove, with D960 standing as the one unquestionably perfect work. I don't know if when people talk about the Impromptus they include Klavierstucke, but the second part of that in my opinion is, along with D960 and the adagio from the String Quintet, the mountain top of Schubert's achievement.

I always forget about those (D946)

Gonna listen to them tomorrow

I realized I didn't have any recordings of the Ravel solo piano stuff, so I fired up Arkiv music picked up this guy. The 'Miroirs' suite that opens disc one is pretty muc worth it on its own.

RE: Cesar Franck
While I was going through my phase, I picked up this album at a thrift shop because it was something I didn't have. I don't normally like those multiple composers on one record kind of deals, but I'm glad I picked up that one, because 'Psyche`' has become one of my favorite pieces of music ever.

Freedom, thank you for the recs on the later Schubert stuff. Was able to get on Arkiv and find some recordings. Very much looking forward to hearing them.

Also, I actually have this album, but for some reason, I only have 'Reliquie' archived on my computer. Probably get that second digitized this weekend. I love side one of the album (again, 'Reliquie'), but I need to sit down with side two.

Miroirs is my favorite Ravel piano work. My favorite recording of it is Frederic Chiu on harmonia mundi. Also Abbey Simon on Vox (part of a cheap and excellent complete Ravel piano set). I'll have to listen to that Centaur one you ordered.

Gilbert Kalish is awesome. I got to see him and Wu Man performing Crumb and Bartok's two-piano works. I don't think that solo Schubert of his has ever made it to CD. If you digitize that LP I'd love to be privy.

Richter on the Monitor label is a fantastic Reliquie (he has later live ones which are too slow).

As far as solo Ravel goes, these are my tops:

Gaspard de la Nuit: Ondine and, especially, Le Gibet
Miroirs: La Vallée Des Cloches
Sonatine: Mouvement De Menuet
Valses Nobles Et Sentimentales: Moins Vif (the 7th one)
À la Manière de ... Borodine

But the rest are all fantastic as well, et al.

I put on the Ravel set yesterday evening for my pre-bedtime internet browsing and it accompanied me off into dreamland. Listening again this morning at work —obviously paying a bit more attention this time— and the entire first disc is absolutely wonderful. There's a lot of tension in this stuff, but he always seems to find release and redemption, even if it's really brief; usually in the last ten seconds of the piece. Just top stuff. Really can't believe I'm 37 years old and just now hearing this for the first time.

Also, xpost to Jon: Yeah, I did some research on Arkiv and couldn't find that particular recording of 'Drei Klavierstücke' D946 anywhere (the Gilbert Kalish one). I'll digitize it when I get home this evening and YouTube it for you.

basically any nonesuch solo piano LPs that never made it to silver, i am categorically interested in hearing (ditto anything on Connoisseur Society - their way of recording pianos is heavenly to me)

I used to just buy any Nonesuch classical and "Explorer Series" stuff I came across just because. Never saw any "Silver Series" records that I recall.

As far as Connoisseur Society, I know I've seen those records a million times if I've seen them once. Off the top of my head, the only one that I know I have for sure is this one, but the vinyl is not in the best shape.

Also, what about Scriabin? I remember reading about his piano stuff in the Bill Evans biography and then coming across a bunch of the records serendipitously a couple weeks later. A couple were the ones on Melodiya, with the goofy faux "psychedelic" covers. I got them home, listened through once and completely forgot about them. I still have the records, but I remember nothing about them, outside of the ridiculous sleeve art.

we did ravel on one of the other "for the piano" polls!

for the piano #3: Debussy vs. Ravel vs. Satie

and then the middle was was schumann and liszt and beethoven

for the piano #2: Beethoven vs. Liszt vs. Schumann

We never got around to Bartok v Prokofiev v Messiaen

Also, what about Scriabin?

Try this one: https://open.spotify.com/album/6MUV87OKjoPXU6UvOwmndT

As for Ravel, I love Bavouzet's set. He does away with the dare I say anglocentric emphasis on softer tones that we've come to expect from 'impressionist' composers.

You are welcome, V/Austin.

Schiff is not always seen as a go-to interpreter of Schubert, but this is a very good set of the non-sonata solo piano stuff: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Schubert-Impromptus-Klavierstucke-Moments-Musicaux/dp/B000007OTU/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1530918314&sr=8-8&keywords=schubert+schiff

ECM Schiff much more interesting than London Decca Schiff in almost any repertoire IMO

Jon — Sorry, I know it's late, but I got there eventually: https://youtu.be/KuDYXWixedk

Hey - I was finally going to try to capture the audio stream from this but the video's not up anymore :(

started learning Fantasy in Fm for four hands with someone who is much more experienced in playing classical music than me...we'll see how it goes