Van der Graaf Generator / Peter Hammill S& D, C or D?

'afterwards' is one of my fave vdgg songs, 'octopus' is gr8 too...

THX for reminding me to change my name!

First album is underrated!

Yeah, I like it better than "Least We Could Do"; it's a lot more melodic and goofy than their later material, but I think it holds up well.

I remember the song that got me into VDGG was "House With No Door"; I thought "Killer" was insanely good too, but "House" really make PH seem like a freak. That second (?) chorus - "I don't know you, you say you know me, (in ridiculous falsetto) THAT MAY BE SOOOOOOOO...."; one of my friends and I used to try to imitate that line all the time. I shied away from this stuff because I always saw it as being like a second-rate version of Genesis or Yes or King Crimson...perhaps from reading too many review sites that said "Plague of Lighthouse Keepers" was garbage. I admit the first half of it is slow but when it gets rolling - boner.

I also noticed that the first half of "Sleepwalkers" sounds a lot like a demented game show theme. Really cool.

Oh yeah...new VDGG album out now - "A Grounding in Numbers". Anyone hear it yet?? Early reviews seem to indicate it's good but there's not much out on it yet.

yeah it's good but not great. it's an album of short songs – quite aggressive in places, which is nice. Hammill's guitar is more prominent this time than it was on Trisector. Banton's organ work is miraculous of course but I still miss Jackson sorely.

i just got the 2005 remaster of "pawn hearts." my GOD is it an improvement on the late-80s cd. it's audible, for one, and you can hear more than one instrument at a time.

yeah improvement is immense. Totally changes your idea of what they were about. The earlier cds sound intentionally anti-groove.
You can hear how wrong that was on the mid 00s ones.
You can also hear how big an influence they had on the Italian early 70s scene.

I'm just thinking I need to sort out my hard drives. My V.D.G.G. live sets are all out of reach from my computer cos the drive isn't connected. & it's also got my VU, Thin White rope, Henry Cow and a couple of other bands on.

absolutely. picking these up are really what made me a fan again. some of the bonus tracks are killer too.

it's strange; i'm in kind of an anti-prog phase right now after burning out on Yes and Genesis and especially King Crimson, but VDGG don't really fit into that mould and their discs seem to take on a greater importance. like, good prog was not all about your chops. I've seen VDGG derided quite a bit by prog-lovers as second-rate or mediocre, but they really seem to be something else. they have kind of an ELP quality to them in that they really seem to just go for it, but they know how to create atmosphere and write songs rather than just play fast.

well the thing about VdGG is that they were unlike most other prog groups, including Yes and Genesis but also certainly ELP, in the fact that their gigs contained significant elements of randomness and chaos. not saying they improvised like KC did but there was always this element of danger about them. you never quite knew which way they were going to go, whereas with other prog groups the performance would be the same night after night. other prog groups to which this applies would have been people like KC and Henry Cow.

yeah I'm kind of leaning now towards "none of those guys ever made an album as ridiculous and incredible as Godbluff"

there's not a lot of consensus among VdGG fans as to their best album. yeah Godbluff would certainly be up there but I would go with Still Life myself. others would choose Pawn Hearts

and as I often say on these threads it's not possible to talk about VdGG without talking about Hammill's solo albums as well, three or four of which are right up there with the best VdGG albums

Have you heard any of his stuff post-VdGG breakup? They don't really get talked about much so I don't really know if he went the route of Genesis or hit some sort of artistic decline.

I always thought Pawn Hearts was the consensus favorite, but you really have to be on board with the group to appreciate it. I'm surprised that H to He doesn't get talked about more. To me it is the equivilent of Fragile.

yeah, I'm a completist so I've heard them all

personally I prefer Hammill solo to VdGG, again you'll get different views as to the consensus favourite but the first post-VdGG break-up record he did was Over which is this wrist-slashing post-(romantic) breakup thing and imho is the best thing he or VdGG ever put their name to

in the late '70s/early '80s he went through this excellent new wave/post-punk phase, short songs, tons of energy and glorious riffing

short answer, no Hammill has never been in any sort of artistic decline

i've heard most of his records too but not in ages, my feeling was post -80's they god kind of inconsistent (fireship, the margin, none of the above....I have NO memory of these albums!). But In Camera, Nadir, Ph7, a black box, I like these as much as the VdGG albums.

also i'm not so sure I like the remasters, they are pretty no-noised and weird. the original cds didn't sound good either. I bet the vinyls sound amazing but I'm not in a position invest in those.

the new VDGG album is really good though, btw, better than the last two; not sure it's "stands with pawn hearts/still life/godbluff' the way some reviews have said, but it's certainly worthy.

Just listened to Fool's Mate for the first time...sounded decent but not as good as any of the VdGG stuff I've heard

Kind of funny how people refer to it as his "goofy" album...musically it is not really heavy, but these lyrics are pretty depressing (and self-centered).

"Fool's Mate" is all old songs, he wrote 1967-1969 when he was like 19, 20

Kind of funny how people refer to it as his "goofy" album...musically it is not really heavy, but these lyrics are pretty depressing (and self-centered)

don't think people do really... there is "Sunshine" which is probably the closest he ever got to goofy

I'm trying to remember where exactly I read that...I guess I'm kind of assuming his solo albums get better from here. Kind of hoping for more things like "Scorched Earth" or "Arrow" that just blow the lid off everything.

If that's what you're looking for then you might want to seek out The Silent Corner & the Empty Stage, Chameleon in the Shadow of the Night and In Camera (in that order). These were mostly written and recorded in between bursts of VdGG activity and they are just as great as the VdGG records. The first two both have the other VdGG members playing on them and are basically VdGG records in all but name.

I already got Chameleon on order, I'll let you know what I think

In Camera, totally!

listened to Over a few times over the past few days, always shocked at how dark it all seems. The final track, Lost and Found is amazing, maybe my favorite song of his, with it's uncertain final line (also has a line later ripped off by Marillion on Script for a jester's tear, for better or worse).

also, after some time with it, I think the new album is one of my favorites. the song 'bunsho' ranks right up there with anything he/they have done.

Over is my favourite PH/VdGG album. On the Marillion front, you can see the cover of the album lying on the floor on the back cover of their Fugazi album.

it was a Fish interview on the radio that pointed me at VdGG in the first place, he always acknowledged his love

Hammill tried him out for the role of Montresor in The Fall of the House of Usher but didn't go with him in the end b/c their voices sounded too similar. The role went to Andy Bell out of Erasure in the end – a pairing that always surprises some people

I just picked up The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage, what an intense listen; it's not as instrumentally interesting as the VdGG stuff but it opens PH to do a lot of weird and sick stuff. Also, Chameleon is finally clicking for me after like, 9 listens.

really liking "mr. sands." between a grounding in numbers and the new yes album this is a nice year for classic prog

Jo Bogaert, known in a previous lifetime as Technotronic, asked if I’d be interested in contributing to an ongoing project of his with Yannic Fonderie. I gave my usual (if my interest’s been tweaked) response of “send something and if I think there’s something I can contribute I’ll send something back”. So stuff was sent and, as it happens, I found vox & lyrics stuff that seemed to make sense both for myself and for the stuff in hand.

Eventually I sang on four or five banging tracks. But as I write they still haven’t found a happy label home and so remain secret treasures…

!

Yeah, I'm starting to have problems with "The Silent Corner". It seems to always make me tense up and get really jittery and paranoid; it really seems to get more intense every time I listen to it. Guess its time to move on.

oh yeah, so now I hear In Camera, sounds very cool thus far, "Gog" is the sort of thing I've wanted to hear him do for a long time. This album has the intensity of his other stuff but it doesn't feel as real as Silent Corner did, which is both good and bad.

Its two weeks now that I listen only to VDGG and Peter Hammill solo stuff - lots and lots of great music. Vital seems to me particularly overrated: it is truly terrifying.

You can definitely take that long, as for me most of the albums take a while to really click (especially the solo albums). I really did not like Pawn Hearts at all the first few listens and then all of the sudden it sounded amazing. I don't think VdGG/PH ever did much to try to win the listeners over but in the end that's part of their appeal. Right now I'm digging the In Camera bonus tracks, which are just solo versions of a couple of album tracks and VdGG's "Emperor in his War Room" and they are surprisingly intense w/ just Hammill's voice and piano

Singularity and Thin Air are two great albums I've spent the past few days listening to, maybe some of his best work?

I would say they're certainly two of the best of his more recent albums, yes, although I doubt you'd find many PH fans who'd rate them alongside his work of the '70s. Singularity is the post-heart attack one, a dread sense of mortality pervades it.

If it weren't for 1998's This, which is one of my top 3 picks for solo PH, I'd agree that these two albums represent his best work since he disbanded the K group. Hammill's ability to work at this level of quality at this stage in his career is kind of uplifting.

I'd still go for Roaring Forties and X My Heart as his best since those days.

somehow I managed to never listen to world record until just now...excellent. I think I just forgot this album existed, or for some reason had heard it wasn't very good or something.

new PH album: Consequences out April 16

1. Eat my Words, Bite my Tongue
2. That Wasn't What I Said
3. Constantly Overheard
4. New Pen-pal
5. Close to Me
6. All the Tiredness
7. Perfect Pose
8. Scissors
9. Bravest Face
10. A Run of Luck

exciting

i wish he'd play the west coast. weirdly (after not really listening to him much over the past few years) I had a really vivid dream taht I saw him play an intense show at some tiny venue, which started me diving back into the catalogue. could probably listen to nothing but Hammill/VDG for three weeks straight without having to repeat any albums.

now, a new VdGG album? (well, kind of...)

Following on from A Grounding in Numbers released in March 2011 Esoteric Antenna are delighted to announce a new title with Van Der Graaf Generator--ALT release date 25th June 2012

'ALT' is a new studio album by the legendary VAN DER GRAAF GENERATOR and follows on from the release of "A GROUNDING IN NUMBERS" in 2011.

"ALT" is no ordinary Van Der Graaf Generator album (if the term "ordinary" could ever be applied to this visionary group). PETER HAMMILL explains; "Instrumental Improvs & Experiments - Most of the music on "ALT" was made while we weren't really looking, or perhaps only while the left side of our collective brain was engaged. The album is a mixture of improvisations recorded at sound checks and in the studio and more considered sonic creations which often verge on Musique Concrete. The thirteen pieces here offer a fascinating glimpse into an alternative Van der Graaf Generator sound world. Perhaps the closest comparison would be with the second CD of "Present", but even the link with those recordings is tenuous. Even by Van der Graaf Generator standards, this stuff's at the whacky end of the scale!"

alright. time to bump this one more time.

Now i have all the VdGG original discs along with the remasters. I hate to say it but listening to them side by side I'm starting to find I like the originals better, at least when it comes to The Least We Can Do/H to He/Pawn Hearts. In the case of The Least we Can Do - I don't think there's a good sounding version of this anywhere. I have one copy where the sax is barely audience. The remaster turns the bass up way too high. I did a spectrum analysis on them and find that they are very much victims of the "loudness war" that ruins a lot of remasters. Hence why the 2005 version of Pawn Hearts always leaves me with a severe earache (obviously, you gotta listen loud). I'm kind of wondering if there are good vinyl versions out there. They blast Godbluff with loudness too and give it a lot more kick but I find you can just crank up the original and get the same effect.

i'd've sworn my old copy of The Least We Can Do sounded fine but i was young and maybe inattentive

a lot of people on fanboards were complaining that the remasters swapped noise for detail

RIP bassist Nic Potter.

This via Chaki, so word probably just went out.

https://www.facebook.com/thinair/posts/10151169842843414

http://www.sofasound.com/latest.htm

he's been sick for a while, hasn't he?