Indie Guilt: C/D

On the other hand I do indeed think there are major race-driven subtexts going on in this discussion. I too am capable of Ye Olde Semi-Ironye.

if you got into my show for three bucks then you owe me a pack of smokes

Yeah, I'm not so much disputing that as suggesting that maybe it's irrelevant and maybe even admirable, insofar as it implies that while indie kids are looking for Quality X that's prevalent in indie, they may well be just as open to finding Quality X in any genre.

NB, SAGE I am not necessarily saying that this is true. Mainly I'm thinking that it's weird and counterintuitive and sort of silly to get all vexed about people who like Genre A enjoying things in Genre B that border on Genre A. I mean, they like Genre A, that's the whole damned point.

Also while I don't disagree with a lot of the indie-bashing on here (I'm here, aren't I? And don't I always say that indie's been on a downhill slope for a few years now?), I still maintain that a lot of it is flip and political and disingenuous: (a) the indie kids I know really do listen to a lot more than just indie, and (b) I don't think indie insularity is really much stronger than that of any other scene (just easier to make fun of). I mean, if we're complaining about this shit with indie, we should gang up on hardcore and really have a good time.

erm i mean yeah Rap Attack 7 that's where itz at fool

(this is TRUE!! well nearly kinda w.some stretching and tweaking)

I understand why you say this, but don't you think there's a subtext here (and this is the aspect of my "race card" post that wasn't in jest) that indie people gravitate towards forms of hip-hop that are somehow less "authentic" because they feel threatened by -- or at least a lack of affinity towards -- certain aspects of African-American culture? Maybe I'm wrong, but I've gotten that sense throughout this thread, and on many other occasions.

(What do indie kids think of Eminem, anyway?)

(And where does the myth of the badass fit into all this?)

(That was 68.4% in jest)

They "quite like" that Eminem/Smiths bootleg.

GOodnight.

Yes this is why indie people (in the general not the specific sense) got the broad-brush slags in the first place Phil! They claimed "mainstream" or "Top 40" as a genre = they got the same treatment back.

Nitsuh has misunderstood my point I think. I consciously said that I find people who listen to lots of things more interesting than people who listen to one thing, without specifying what that one thing might be. eg I think the Jay-Z/Nas thread is funny and entertaining but I also don't actually read it much.

(I'm also not saying that it's very difficult or effortful to listen to lots of things - my cousin Leila listens to lots of things - hip- hop, nu-metal, guitar pop, teen-pop, trance, big ballads, ragga - every time she puts on the NOW records I buy her.)

Though the crossover of Naughty By Nature's f'in' brilliant and f'in' hard-ass debut remains a mystery to this day

it might have something to do with hooks.

Er, I already figured that one out, Tom...:-) My point was that, by offering the same treatment back -- rather than by positing an inclusive, uniting "third way" in which the virtues of good pop and good indie are appreciated -- you're basically "sinking to their level" = acknowledging that you have nothing more interesting to say (than what they're saying) = acknowledging that their behavior was completely legitimate, since you're engaging in it too.

(haha, contrary to this thread, i can actually produce coherent thoughts.)

except for that bit about my ace of base cover being my best work

kidding kidding

For fairness' sake - so people on ILM can get an idea of what the "new" people on this thread usually talk about.

NB yes I know BDP are too "conscious" to count as black according to most anglo interpreters of hiphop roolz

let's have another g + t shall we

(which is a bit like being the tallest midget, yes, but still...)