ILM is kinda sucking these days (boring and meta ignore not safe for work)

what is new pop music for? staking out tribal ground? we have a million other ways to do that now. cause it sounds good and makes us dance around? i've already got more songs than i can ever listen to that do that already. to challenge a staid society? please.

Your name is Nick Hornby and you have been formally been disqualified from ILM. Now foxtrot off to the first Old Tyme Dancing messageboard you can find for all your Wee Georgie Elrick needs.

My own self-amused argument of late -- pop music is the biggest musical subculture there is, because it's *all* subcultural.

yeah sorry, that was pretty low-quality trolling. see that's what comes of just sticking it onto the bottom of a longer thread rather than having the pressure and performance of a new thread all your own.

xpost

Ned i have no idea what you're talking about

The Billboard Hot 100 Top Ten:

1. Lil Wayne feat. Static Major - "Lollipop"
2. Leona Lewis - "Bleeding Love"
3. Coldplay - "Viva La Vida"
4. Rihanna - "Take a Bow"
5. Katy Perry - "I Kissed a Girl"
6. Usher feat. Young Jeezy - "Love in This Club"
7. Jordin Sparks Duet with Chris Brown - "No Air"
8. Ray J and Yung Berg - "Sexy Can I"
9. David Cook - "The Time of My Life"
10. Madonna eat. Justin Timberlake - "Four Minutes"

Seriously, who gives a shit about any of these songs? Even "Four Minutes" didn't spark 1/10 as much discussion as "Hung Up" did.

the answer to ilm sucking is obviously more navel-gazing

Tracer: it's hard for me to easily sum up, honestly (and I really, REALLY have to get back to some work here) but I think the slow-grind collapse of the music industry specifically is taking the wind out of the idea of 'pop music' as universal cultural benchmark. Related to that, I think that's a big reason why 'pop music' as such has gained such relative cultural cachet from commentators this decade, it provides something to hold onto even while the business side of it ebbs away. Again, I'm not stating this as pithily (or probably accurately) as I'd like, but I'm trying to make a distinction as well between 'here is why I like or dislike (x)' -- that's why I think Snrub's complaint just now is an invalid one -- and an assumption that there's an actual mass engagement with (x) in the first place. Subject for another thread at this point, I think, or an old one continuing this kind of discussion.

Seriously, who gives a shit about the Billboard charts?

As good an indicator of the most popular pop music at a certain moment as any I guess.

The Billboard Hot 100 has been out of touch ever since it jumped Debby Boone's shark.

the madonna song is totally phoned in wackness, which is why no one gives a shit

10. Madonna eat. Justin Timberlake - "Four Minutes"

o noes!

(sry, back to your discussion then)

How dare you have a career.

-- Ned Raggett, Thursday, 5 June 2008 02:01 (13 hours ago) Link

How dare YOU have a career!

-- Jeff Treppel, Thursday, 5 June 2008 02:05 (13 hours ago) Link

We are the new Chip and Dale.

-- Ned Raggett, Thursday, 5 June 2008 02:09 (13 hours ago) Link

Surely you meant "Mac 'n' Tosh," sir?

(sry, back to your discussion then)

Why ILM has been boring:

Not enough big wide-ranging discussions of new music. The best ILM threads are the longest (mostly). I was disappointed at how weak the Portishead Third thread was. Say what you want about the Vampire Weekend thread but there was some really strong discussion in there.

Not enough enthusiasm/evangelisation of stuff we actually like. I want threads to sell me something and convince me why it's good. All of the poll threads assume familiarity with their subjects so if I know nothing about XTC - "Big Express" I'm not gonna learn much about it from the poll. Or rather, why would I care if someone thinks song X is better than song Y when I don't know either?

At least with the rolling threads I can read through and get some potentially interesting recs. I don't really post to the metal thread but there I'm likely to find someone telling me why some random metal album is awesome.

I also think that, while there's been quite a lot of music this year that I like, there's not been THAT much for people to get excited about on a wider, cultural scale - the things I like this year are more solipsistic than ever before, perhaps - Elbow, Spiritualized, etc. I'd have loved people to get excited by The Do, and though people would, but it didn't happen.

Very true. There have been a few threads this year devoted to a new disc or a new act that led to a long discussion that broke off into interesting directions, e.g., the thread about No Age's Nouns. But it's been few-and-far-between in that regard.

But I don't think this is necessarily an indication that something's gone wrong (although, as I said above, I don't think poll threads are good for conversation). When I look at "upcoming releases" calendars, I see lots of highly-anticipated discs that might be, as Nick puts it, "cultural items" on the horizon (maybe within niche communities, but "cultural items" nonetheless). I'd guess that some of those discs will lead to threads with the kind of deeper discussion that we've seen on ILX in the (relatively recent) past.

although dude you were responsible for that shoddy "12 perfect songs" p-fork dick-suck so in a way you are responsible for ILM being crap

We need more bold, proactive posting about musical theory and critical analysis. My two cents. Well, two more.

Louis:

Given that M@rk's Resonant Frequency column is all about musical theory and critical analysis, these two posts are in conflict. I think you missed the point of the poll (as did most). It could have turned into an interesting discussion -- which song(s) that M@rk named were perfect? which weren't so perfect? what other songs are "perfect" to each of us? and what makes a perfect song?

The poll itself isn't the point of the thread; I was aiming more so to discuss the theory behind it.

We need more bold, proactive posting about musical theory and critical analysis.

Musical theory? Such as?

xpost, to Louis - I mean, if you're gonna target the lack of critical/theoretical discussion on ILM, the better target would have been my own recent "Music That Enhances Sex" poll, quite obviously.

I agree ILM has been especially boring lately. And I'm tired of these threads with blanks in them i.e. ____is the new____ or _____ is so ______ they make ______ look like _____. I just don't find that kind of thing inspiring at all. Come to think of it, it's kinda like Mad Libs, but far, far less entertaining.

I kinda like sleeve's idea that polls could be on a separate board, too.

I Poll Everything

i like the rolling threads. better than starting a thread on some random jazz album that'll get 0 - 5 posts and fade away.

It's sweet that people liked the Ashlee thread, but you realize that it was populated by people who stopped coming here because they got trolled out, right?

Shame

i like the rolling threads. better than starting a thread on some random jazz album that'll get 0 - 5 posts and fade away.

i already answered this - keep up! if you start a thread and it gets five responses there is something wrong with the way you asked the question.

and in that case - is it really worth talking about at all?

thats bs, plenty of great albums worth talking about w/ perfectly fine questions that dont get more than 5 posts bcuz the thread starter is not tim finney

i'm just an old lump of coal, but i'm gonna be tim finney someday.

Let us decide to ask a few interestingly posed questions about especially new and exciting albums/artists/etc. that we would normally keep to one of the rolling threads (in my case, the only one I read is Rolling Metal) and see what happens.

i'm trying to think of some provocative, interesting way i could get people to care about the new Brian Blade album or some brass band shit, but i'm coming up empty.

tits.jpg

guys i'm going to post more to ILM now so don't worry

Jordan, I've been about to check out that Brian Blade album for the past few days based on your flakking.

Tracer learned his lesson when he started that Go-go thread.

I think you missed the point of the poll (as did most). It could have turned into an interesting discussion -- which song(s) that M@rk named were perfect? which weren't so perfect? what other songs are "perfect" to each of us? and what makes a perfect song?

The only remotely interesting part of this is the final sentence, and I personally regard the idea of a "perfect" song to be a red herring because there are so many variables in music. Still, we could have had that discussion WITHOUT appealing to such a crass and blatant authority as a popular indie website, or starting a poll whose options would almost certainly occlude any proactive theoretical debate. I don't think the idea of creating a "perfect" song is at all interesting, sorry. It's a big, booming, subjective point of pseudo-critical wankery, the enemy of theoretical innovation or fun.

so consensus is:

-no big crossover albums
-rolling balkanization
-not enough discussion on poll threads

#2 can be helped by maybe starting independent threads for stuff Rolling dudes think might have broader appeal?

-- BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, June 5, 2008 1:59 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link

Let us decide to ask a few interestingly posed questions about especially new and exciting albums/artists/etc. that we would normally keep to one of the rolling threads (in my case, the only one I read is Rolling Metal) and see what happens.

-- roxymuzak, Thursday, June 5, 2008 4:46 PM (40 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

great minds

otm

There's too many threads.

I would much rather look at board that had few threads about noteworthy albums than sifting through "BEST ALBUM WITH A DOG ON THE COVER POLL"

New Music on ILM #1: Five O'Clock Heroes feat. Agyness Deyn - "Who"

rolling balkanization

I'm pro the continued separation of ILM into tribes which have and want nothing to do with each other.

I would much rather look at board that had few threads about noteworthy albums than sifting through "BEST ALBUM WITH A DOG ON THE COVER POLL"

-- Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, June 5, 2008 12:46 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

these are why rolling threads are the best, i guess they just get daunting after a while

I'm pro the continued separation of ILM into tribes which have and want nothing to do with each other.

This is shit for the many people who dearly like a lot of different musical styles.

And it's great for people who long ago got tired of the standard belittling and values/taste warring that's standard practice here.

Ride it out dude. Pay the haters no mind and they will magically stop affecting you. I say this as someone who learned the increasingly easy way.

likewise

This is shit for the many people who dearly like a lot of different musical styles.

-- Just got offed, Thursday, June 5, 2008 5:55 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

rock, prog-rock, and post-rock?

He makes a good point, though. Ringtone is my home, but no way I can keep up with Metal & Dance too.

Balkanization is never the answer, people. Look at the Balkans.

I hate when threads you like just disappear, whatever happened to rolling teenpop. So good.

jordan.xls