Armond White:"Can Jay-Z and Diddy save hip hop?"

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so is this the long delayed answer video to monster magnet's 'alt-rock videos = boring ass; hip-hop videos = super fun time' salvo?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Hahah.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Fish beatings?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:10 (twenty-two years ago)

The Kanye video isn't just T&A. And I'm pretty sure Jay never raps "let me reintroduce myself"

― Sym (shmuel), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I get too distracted by the girl in the Kanye video to even notice that he's rapping. It's a good video like that.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:20 (twenty-two years ago)

the kanye video is an oblique meditation of the toll child acting takes on the actors themselves

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:22 (twenty-two years ago)

(and also stacey dash's very fine breasts and behind)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Who is the child actor in the Kanye video?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:24 (twenty-two years ago)

the small asian boy who squirts mustard on him

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Fish beatings?

The sledgehammer is used for Rush L. tonight.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:25 (twenty-two years ago)

also, kanye was played by emmanuel lewis.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Stacey Dash has a great name. I can't believe she was NEARLY 30 when she did Clueless!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Hahaha I totally don't remember her from any of these TV shows.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:27 (twenty-two years ago)

when she gets married she will be mrs. dash

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Sprinkle some of that shit over here, honey.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Salt free, even.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I was damning with faint praise, Raggett! the article is hilarious.

I mean As Romanek's images keep coming at you—pulsing to producer Rick Rubin's sullen, reverberating beat—they fall into line as maybe the truest-ever hiphop portrait of New York life.

Thank you Rick and Mark for saving hip hop from itself!

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:32 (twenty-two years ago)

he is worse as a film critic, believe it or not. Apparently if you didn't like 3000 Miles to Graceland, Misson to Mars, A:I, etc and you DID like anything shot on DV, Guy Maddin, etc. you're a moron.

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the first, hated the next two (well M2M is fine enough for comedy, I guess). I don't like Guy Maddin though and I am ambivalent about DV.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't mind his opinions but his tendency to villify those who disagree or just happen to feel differently. I'm sure among NYC writers he's pretty notorious for being a dick.

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:41 (twenty-two years ago)

That would be the pot calling the kettle black.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:42 (twenty-two years ago)

true true

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:45 (twenty-two years ago)

usually Armond White is frothing at the mouth with racist conspiracies than ILM, shame he handled this one with kid gloves.

― Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:54 (twenty-two years ago)

with *more* racist etc, that should've said

― Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I was damning with faint praise, Raggett! the article is hilarious.

Just checking. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 02:11 (twenty-two years ago)

The Kanye video isn't just T&A. And I'm pretty sure Jay never raps "let me reintroduce myself"

he does rap it, but it's "allow me to" and it's in the second interlude/psa. i haven't seen the 99 problems video yet; but i know at least parts of this interlude were mixed into the dirt off my shoulder video so i guess anything's possible.

― andrew s (andrew s), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I read this thread as "Can, Jay-Z and Diddy save hip hop." Heh.

― Laszlo Kovacs (Laszlo Kovacs), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 04:20 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.furious.com/perfect/graphics/can1.jpg
gerades outta Deutschland

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 05:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Lights in the city went dark, then all the ghetto folk began to glow like images in a thermal x-ray. Their phosphorescence symbolized life-force, a misunderstood (often misrepresented) energy.

I wonder if Hova lectured the director about the importance of misunderstood life-force during the filming of "Dirt Off Your Shoulder."

― Erick (Imbroglio), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 05:58 (twenty-two years ago)

he actually can be an ok movie critic sometimes, i have to admit

― amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 06:42 (twenty-two years ago)

haha when?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 07:44 (twenty-two years ago)

He may be over the top and largely wrong, but you have to admit that's a well written piece.

― djdee2005, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 07:56 (twenty-two years ago)

he's made such an exercise of wringing every bit of MEANING out of "99 problems" (and "dirt off your shoulder", sheesh), you'd think he'd have more trouble dismissing every other bit of hiphop that doesn't see the music video as a minor branch of independant cinema.

― m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:25 (twenty-two years ago)

over the top + largely wrong = not well written (unless you mean "he wrote complete sentences and punctuated them correctly" = well written, which is wrong, too)

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean he made his points, defended them well and used good examples.

I think he's wrong and that his compliments towards the video were over the top.
i don't see how that precludes it being a well-written piece.

― djdee2005, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:28 (twenty-two years ago)

(sp = independent)(sorry, its a bugbear)

― m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:30 (twenty-two years ago)

actually, I'm being kneejerk. AW has written very well about lots of things--his piece on the Lovin' Spoonful's "Summer in the City" a couple years ago put his overblown tendencies to excellent use. I just think he's being shortsighted here, and that his good points ("Most hiphop videos don't document New York so much as portray its mean-streets myth") are outgunned by his not-so-good ones (see Strongo upthread)

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:31 (twenty-two years ago)

the logic is sort of like "the Roots are so much better than the rest of hip-hop because they take rock values (live instrumentation rather than samples and turntables) and transpose them to hip-hop!" and I like "99 Problems" fine, but I didn't think I was seeing anything all that out of the ordinary for a hip-hop vid.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:35 (twenty-two years ago)

... then all the ghetto folk began to glow like images in a thermal x-ray. Their phosphorescence symbolized life-force, a misunderstood (often misrepresented) energy.

this is pretty funny.

― m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:41 (twenty-two years ago)

who knew predator vision had such emancipatory promise?

― m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:44 (twenty-two years ago)

reminds me of

http://images.google.ie/images?q=tbn:dce0zKbAxUcJ:www.timelinestudios.com/images

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan now that you've figured out how to post pictures you're just going nuts, aren't you?

― Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:45 (twenty-two years ago)

yes! but that actually did remind me of that!

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:46 (twenty-two years ago)

how!?

― Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:47 (twenty-two years ago)

is that what you think Armond White looks like?

― Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree with Matos. White makes some good points about other hip-hop videos, and about the Making The Band show, but they're overshadowed by his usual misplaced hyperbole. (When determining the size of the salt-boulder you're gonna need to take his opinions with, remember that he's a paid-up member of the Church of Tupac, too.)

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 10:08 (twenty-two years ago)

well that's odd considering that by basic tone of the article you'd think he'd not realized that hip-hop slipped out of new york's sole custodianship some time around 1985.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 10:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I just think he's being shortsighted here, and that his good points ("Most hiphop videos don't document New York so much as portray its mean-streets myth") are outgunned by his not-so-good ones (see Strongo upthread)

i don't see how this video doesn't contribute to the "mean-streets myth," even if it does so with presumably greater verisimilitude (or wider lenses or whatever)

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:09 (twenty-two years ago)

>well that's odd considering that by basic tone of the article you'd think he'd not realized that hip-hop slipped out of new york's sole custodianship some time around 1985.

The article is about how New York is portrayed through rap. Your statement has nothing to do with the article as it exists, everything to do with your rather rabid defensiveness w/r/t current hip-hop, and betrays near-total ignorance of White, who may well be insane, but is a smart guy nonetheless.

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Hiphop's brick wall of stereotypes about the city and its inhabitants was erected by the culture itself. And because it's lucrative, those cliches got repeated. Stigmatization is perpetuated every time you see a music video by Lil Jon & the East Side Boyz, Juvenile, Bonecrusher or Nelly that reinforces banalities about the way black people live. In All Fall Down, even director Chris Milk ignores Kayne West's introspection ("We're all self-conscious, I'm just the first to admit it") for t&a.

none of his comparisons are from anywhere close to nyc, smart guy.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Skipping 32 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Having a hard-on for Alan Rudolph makes you morally suspect in my book.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Sure hope he googles himself and comes here and complains. I'll be deeply entertained!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Fuck him for liking shit like Afterglow and Welcome to LA.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:38 (twenty-two years ago)

The funny part about the New York Press is that he and the other critic (Matt Zoller Seitz) don't seem to like each other, judging from the occasional sniping. Seitz is actually one of my favorite film critics. A more lucid thinker, a better writer, and his opinions always seem to be his own, he's never reacting against what others have said about the film in question.

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:42 (twenty-two years ago)

For the record, I think Walter Hill and Brian Depalma are underrated, too. Altman is overrated though (except for Nashville and McCabe and Mrs. Miller which can't be overrated enough.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:44 (twenty-two years ago)

The "99 Problems" video is cool, but no one should be paying any attention to Armond White. As a (film) critic, he's so far up his own bungy that he can say "hi!" to Thanksgiving Dinner.

― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Gear OTM about MZS

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Though the image of some "wiggers" shouting out Puffy as he enters Stage Left is pretty fun.

― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:06 (twenty-two years ago)

my favorite Armond White review is for American Beauty, he went real apeshit on that one and for the most part I agree.

― Al (sitcom), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:07 (twenty-two years ago)

He was made that it was too mean, right? (I'm just guessing.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:20 (twenty-two years ago)

made=mad

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:21 (twenty-two years ago)

There was another overblown piece about this video in the Sunday NYT too.

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:37 (twenty-two years ago)

first off, "stigmatization is perpetuated..." fuck that shit. jay-z just has talent like louie armstrong, or whoever that trumpet player was who blew in front of all white bands and audiences. duke ellington! it's a total white-guy "keeping it real" retard notion. i can't believe this

I actually like his movie reviews. I mean he doesn't shy away from letting you know how he really feels. Also, they tend to be pretty memorable. I think I see his "overblown tendencies" as strong emotional resposes. Not what you usually get with movie reviews, i guess unless you count "hated it" or "loved it."

strong emotional responses are overblown tendencies when you can't write well. so many words i'd rather read "hated it" or "loved it" with a picture of him smiling smarmy, lips hiding teeth, eyes hollow. hated it!

― $corpium ($corpium), Thursday, 13 May 2004 04:55 (twenty-two years ago)

key phrases redux:

1) "partake in its spectacle"

― $corpium ($corpium), Thursday, 13 May 2004 05:02 (twenty-two years ago)

1) "...partake in its spectacle"
2) "the familiar edifice of ghetto-fabulous determinism"
3) "pauses for condescension"

― $corpium ($corpium), Thursday, 13 May 2004 05:06 (twenty-two years ago)

(1) lots of black musicians played in all-white clubs during the '20s and '30s; not sure what yr overriding point there is.

(2) Armond White is, in fact, black.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 13 May 2004 06:15 (twenty-two years ago)

(a photo and interview: http://www.filmmakermagazine.com/winter2004/features/the_critic.html)

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 13 May 2004 06:17 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, i was gonna say, the guy is black.

i actually don't like reading his essays per se but he sometimes has short little pieces in film comment that are ok, sometimes he has interesting reasons for talking about something. his taste is really perverse and unpredictable, which is good and bad.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 13 May 2004 06:54 (twenty-two years ago)

five years pass...

http://altreport.hipsterrunoff.com/2010/04/jay-z-drops-ultimate-douchebag-quote-describes-bono-using-dirty-projjies-lyric-stillness-is-the-move.html

^^ amazing

― Big Fate (as Alvin 'Xzibit' Joiner) (history mayne), Tuesday, 13 April 2010 13:38 (sixteen years ago)

while he did throw shapes abt these indie bands to drum up publicity for blueprint 3, the common source of this for both jay-z & d projectors is probably new-agey self-help stuff. it's a p ancient idea.

― tbrrprint (2) HD (zvookster), Tuesday, 13 April 2010 13:52 (sixteen years ago)

jayzheadnod.gif

― nakhchivan, Tuesday, 13 April 2010 13:53 (sixteen years ago)

haha!

― tbrrprint (2) HD (zvookster), Tuesday, 13 April 2010 13:53 (sixteen years ago)

seven years pass...

Armond on The Smiths' Girlfriend in a Coma

― flappy bird, Friday, 11 August 2017 04:22 (eight years ago)

God I hate to be "well actually" but girlfriend in a coma isn't even in the top 10 of controversial morrissey/smiths songs

― -_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 11 August 2017 06:51 (eight years ago)

i've never been a fan of armond but that was a pretty decent piece imo

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 11 August 2017 07:23 (eight years ago)

did we ever get this sorted lads

― for sale: clown shoes, never worn (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 11 August 2017 08:33 (eight years ago)

somewhere in my hellsite of a flat i have a copy of a new york city sun (from 1992 i guess?) which contains two long articles by armond white (while it lasted he was its critic-in-chief)

1: is a long detailed look at malcolm x the historical figure and malcolm x the movie
2: the other is a long favourable look at morrissey, who AW was very evidently drawn to

given both their subsequent trajectories i think this is both telling and -- to be fair to AW -- perceptive

(the movie came out the exact month of the madstock/union jack controversy, which is where inklings of doubt did begin elsewhere; can't recall if the city sun piece discusses this or predates it; should probably look it out and report back, perhaps a month off-line wd do me good)

― mark s, Friday, 11 August 2017 10:45 (eight years ago)

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