Black Metal!

i always liked this cover:

http://www.rpmmotorsportstulsa.com/Greg/PITJ.jpg

i like the colors. already kind of a "sketchy" album title! don't know what the song is about though. never heard it.

i never listened to pantera. i've never heard a whole album. would see their videos on mtv and never thought much about them.

i purposely avoided pantera cuz of sketchy hesher dudes in high school that i didn't like

yeah, i didn't even really have an opinion back then. i knew they were around and big in the 90's, but there was so much other awesome metal to listen to back then. and if i wanted to hear knucklehead stuff i could always pull out an old youth of today or slapshot album when i was drunk.

Does anyone know a fan of glam pantera? (from the actual time) just to see what they think of what followed.

the whole industrial metal thing passed me by in the 90's too. machine head. never listened to biohazard. felt like a rehash of the 80's crossover stuff i liked. i mean i loved agnostic front and first cro mags album, so, again, its not like i was allergic to brootal mosh shit.

but the 90's had such great NEW sounds! exciting sounds.

I like some pantera songs just fine but jjjusten otm about phil's fake shouty hardcore vox. "walk" is so lame.

ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME?
NO WAY, PUNK

also read a decibel interview with phil a few months ago and he was bragging about how he beat up some guy in the 80s. cool guy.

and from a purely lyrical perspective, burzum songs are basically all about forests but phil's tough guy lyrics are definitely something of a turnoff for me.

and i don't want to do that whole "they did it better when i was a lad..." thing. its just that i had been listening to metal + punk crossover stuff for almost a decade before pantera hit it big, so it just wasn't exciting to me in a way that it would have been exciting to a teenager in the early 90's or whatever. when pantera became huge eyehategod were one of my favorite bands.

i never listen to burzum either actually. i have some of the vinyl reissues that came out but i never play them. i like that old stuff though. i'd probably rather listen to old bathory albums these days.

i just keep playing that new inquisition album. man, i cannot get enough of that.

yeah, I keep meaning to listen to that one. guess I should.

dig their artwork too

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_uUZsHtBFk-s/TPq-1sC539I/AAAAAAAABAo/LDa8RSeFHzc/s1600/Inquisition+-+Ominous+Doctrines+of+the+Perpetual+Mystical+Macrocosm_halifaxcollect.blogspot.com.jpg

such a great album.

if i ever made a list of my favorite songs this would be in the top 100. actually the intro might take one spot in my top 100 and the song itself would take another spot. when i got this in 1984 i thought i had died and gone to heaven.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxqPfKiUGTg&playnext=1&list=PL266EB88E49CF72AD

scott what age are you?

i'm 42.

this killed me too in 1984! loved it! love the whole EP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OlkY9W92nE

http://opereamipapa.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/42.jpg

now playing!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3a85nIEiMtw/S8zZPqfZGnI/AAAAAAAAAK0/bI--vqBAo1E/s1600/slapshot.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqteDk15Ud8

http://www.metalinjection.net/announcements/black-metal-history-month-metal-injection

understand why US folks might be more OK with weird racist dude from Norway over racist dude from the US South.

It's easier to couch it as (possibly misguided) nationalistic pride that just happens to be about white folks since those countries are traditionally white whereas the USA has always been a melting pot (since we stole it from the Natives, but that's another kettle of wax) so being pro-America doesn't have those racist tendencies... Although sometimes it does - see Tea Partiers, anti-immigration zealots, country music. (Kidding on the last one... kinda.)

Also, race issues are really complex, rarely just (wait for it) black and white (see what I did there?) and there are often regional and cultural subtleties that make it hard for even the locals to understand it all, let alone those from outside the culture. I mean, I lived in the South part of America but I never been to Norway so while I might see things in a Confederate Flag that others don't, I don't know shit about Scandenavian culture and it's presumptuous of me to consider otherwise.

I find it interesting that Arghoslent rarely comes up in conversations. This band is from Virginia, has been around for the better part of two decades and released three albums. The last two - "Incorrigible Bigotry" and "Hornets of the Pogrom" - are actually quite good musically, though the lyrics are filled with racist ideas and the band has never shied away from expressing their views in interviews.

I stocked their albums when I worked at Magnolia Thunderpussy in Ohio. I wrote on the bin card "Warning: Racist redneck fuckheads."

But they are a perfect example of an American racist band, I think much more so than Phil Anselmo, whose entire musical output and the bulk of his views are not inflammatory (maybe dumb, though).

This brings me to another point that I am not sure I shoudl discuss but I will nonetheless because I think it's important:

When I was the buyer at Relapse Records mail order, a bunch of kids involved in some kind of anti-facist group overseas (don't know exact details) saw that we carried some sketchy releases and they bombarded the email boxes of current and past Relapse artists pointing them to the stuff we carried and how they were now associated with that.

This led to complaints from some bands which led to meetings with me about what we could and could not carry. We caved into the pressure. I hated it, because I feel that even idiots should be allowed to speak and I can appreciate the music of Arghoslent while still feeling they are redneck fuckheads and I simply don't like puttiong myself as the arbitrator of morality.

When I was quite frustrated about how we determined what was able to be sold and what was not (Drudkh was perfectly fine to carry but no Hate Forest, even though they shared members), I expressed my frustration to a good friend of mine named Evan, a huge metal fan from Ohio.

Evan, aside from being kvlt and troo, is also a Jew. A practicing one, keeps Kosher and fasts and everything. And I will paraphrase what he said to me, but I think it made a lot of sense:

"I don't understand why in Death Metal and Black Metal saying Christianity is horrible is perfectly acceptable, but say it about Judaism and it's a horrible taboo. I also don't understand why it's perfectly acceptable to be misogynistic and advocate violence towards women for that matter."

I think he makes a point. It seems hypocritical to me that bands as blatant as Deicide and a billion other death metal bands (and certainly a ton of black metal ones too) can blatantly be anti-Christian (and even anti-Muslim is pretty accepted in metal circles) and bands can even take anti-religion stances entirety. But specify Judaism and that changes things?

But that goes into the complex issues on religion which make race relations seem like a kindergarden exam in comparison...

I babbled. I hope some of it makes sense...

jews are a really small minority though in comparison to christians. and there were people who actually tried to exterminate every jew on earth less than a hundred years ago. so, there IS a difference.

its weird, cuz a way to be all white power and not have anyone get upset is just yell about your polish power or irish power or swedish power. same thing really. and nobody would care.

the amount of ACTIVELY ns/racist bands with a high profile or that people would actually here is so very small. isn't it?

I think your friend Evan isn't thinking through the problem very carefully. When Deicide says that Christianity is horrible they are doing so in a culture that is predominately Christian, where their statements are understood to be anarchistic or rebellious and their pose is carefully stylized and cultivated with that in mind. Tho there has been anti-Christian violence due to NSBM (primarily church burnings and other stuff covered in places like Lords of Chaos) there has never been an existential threat linked to a particular ethos (such as National Socialism in the 1940s). Nb I am very interested in nsbm and I don't think there's anything wrong with being curious about it and I'm certainly not trying to condemn it. But I think that Evan's statement is missing a lot of the subtlety. I think that the long history of anti-semitic rhetoric leading to actual severe anti-semtiic violence makes it more dangerous than anti-christian rhetoric which, at least in my eyes, can never be quite as threatening. YMMV, etc. (Kerr asked me to respond so... idk.)

aka what scott said

Do pagans and church of satan people etc get hassle from religious types?

I think there's a lot of truth to what scott and mordy said about why saying being an "anti-christian" band is quite different than an NSBM one due to extreme historical persecution.

but.

I also don't understand why it's perfectly acceptable to be misogynistic and advocate violence towards women for that matter.

this is something I can get behind. another group with no small share of historical persecution and pornogrind bands even get mainstream coverage in mags like decibel.

and arghoslent really are quite good but I paid attention to their lyrics once and it churned my stomach. haven't listened since.

I am half Jewish myself. On mom's side even. German Jew so I know I had relatives who escaped the holocaust. I am not insensitive to this.

I guess maybe it's also about what the bands espouse... Anti-Christian bands take on the institution of Christianity and the history, whereas the NSBMers take on actual Jews using the stereotypes and whatnot.

I am pretty sure that David Vincent or Glen Benton knows Christians and might even be friendly with them even if they find their religion silly. I don't see the Count or Arghoslent members from associating with Jews or blacks or whatever.

And I think a lot of bands do it for shock. such as:

http://arslibertatis.com/sources/jesus_is_a_cunt.jpg

dani filth is a cunt (uk kind btw )

most anti-Semites aren't hating Jews because of their Judaism, is the deal - it is racism. Hating Christians is like hating fascists -- if a fascist stops being one, you can't really call him a fascist any more. NSBM dudes are very into ethnic identity, eugenics shit, etc. One hates Christians for their track record of annihilating native cultures and institutions, complicity with evil governments, etc. Anti-Xian sentiment is political, not racial.

Goregrind seems a separate issue to me, you won't find a lot of goregrind dudes arguing that the shit that goes on in their songs is stuff that should be happening because women are bad or anything. It's purgative, cathartic, etc. (I take issue with plenty of that stuff too, I don't listen to much pornogrind but the anti-human stance of good death metal seems a thing apart.) When we're talking about nazis in metal, we are talking about people who believe that non-white races are inferior, and who espouse this belief. That particular stance is objectionable to my mind; "life is shitty and ugly and all kinds of horrible shit goes down, and also Christians fuck everything up" is a different deal.

i cant even remember what Pantera's lyrics were about

hes one enlightened dude

Politics? Feel like going off on our president or what we are doing in Iraq?
I just think that anybody that complains about what the President has done by sending over troops and kicking a little ass, they need to realize, y’know… let’em go cry and let’em go protest to the victims of 9-11 for number one. Number two, if we absolutely did nothing, then, I think most of America would be at the polls and all saying “We should do something.” So the President was in a no win situation. He HAD to go over there and fucking lay down the law and kick somebody’s fucking ass… he really did… by public pressure. If you fuck with the US, there is going to be a rebuttal. And thus far, we’ve been so, bit by bit by bit just chipping away at them. And being successful to a certain point. We are putting the fear back in the fucking terrorists. Because the countries that are harboring the terrorists, fuck, they are dead if we find out. And they know it. And so they don’t want the terrorists there. They are going to be saying, “Get out of here. You are not welcome here either. We don’t want America fucking kicking our ass. Get out of here.” And they are not going to be wanted anywhere. So I think by laying down a fucking offensive, we laid down a lot of ground rules about fucking with America.

Even if the reasons cited for War were the Weapons of Mass destruction (that have yet to be found)?
I think the media has a funny way of twisting what really is so. Anybody who pulls that on America is going to get their fucking ass kicked. I don’t care who you are… you are going to get blown up. It just reminds me that I don’t think there is any successful country that doesn’t have a backstabbing, bloody knife hidden in some drawer somewhere. Things have to get ugly. And they do. And they have for thousands of years.

The major press seems to be paying attention. You were in the Rolling Stone with the Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen cover! What’s your opinion of the major music media outlets?
Not much. After years of ignoring Pantera, who was a phenomena really, within itself, for how many records we sold, and how well we did, with as little media coverage as possible, at least the mainstream media, the radio, etc. Which to me is as mainstream as you can get, besides MTV. And then again, there is MTV.

I remember MTV giving you guys a nod back in the day.
Well, on Vulgar Display of Power… but the very first time I slipped up and said the word “nigger” or did something that may have not been politically correct, they were all over my ass like I was the guy who shot the president or something. And that’s what I didn’t appreciate. That’s what most media outlets do. They build you up only to tear your ass fucking to shreds.

while searching for online articles about phil's love of BM (he was the first american big name i ever saw talking about it way back) I came across this. Not linking it direct for obvious reasons
stormfront.org/forum/t585216/

dude's all about fucking asses getting fucking kicked.

why are we still going on about Phil anyway? is this thread just about racist musicians now? should we start talking about Eric Clapton, too? haven't we done this on other threads?

noone here has really heard actual nsbm bands most likely so we cant discuss them. We could just talk about good black metal bands that aren't neo nazi's..

It is after all
http://www.metalinjection.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/black-metal-history-month.jpg

i like graveland! he's "sketchy", right?

would much rather listen to graveland than varg. they can both can be pretty trippy, but the best graveland stuff is total hypno-metal. its one of the big reasons why i like a lot of the black metal that i do. the hypnotic repetition really does help some of these guys achieve some sort of actual trip into the void. you dig? they really do take me to another world at times. and i imagine that they take themselves out of the world when they're making it. but unlike committing suicide, they can come back! its an old trick teenagers have been using for years. see how close to the edge you get and then back away at the last moment.

i learned to embrace pantera's sound when it was combined with europrog and Abba.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcKoqGKuz6U&feature=fvwrel

Graveland is the only actual NSBM band I could name. Will never listen to them though.

i always got the impression that that dude just hates everybody. except viking ghosts. and wolves.

i think i read a varg interview somewhere where he seemed to hate everyone inc nsbm guys and especially "the jews running the world". He hasn't mellowed, he's still a racist anti-semetic prick. If that kind of thing was in his lyrics im pretty sure Burzum would sell about as many records as graveland. I cant imagine NSBM being that big a scene, though apparently there's a lot of polish/russian/ukrainian NSBM acts. Doubt they're very well known though.

Of course there's some "heritage" acts that seem a bit dodgy and are being evasive about it all. Cant help feeling it's because they're not daft and know it would hurt their sales and gigs would be banned in most places.