ILM'S TOP 77 TRACKS of 2010

wtf does maggott brain have to do with sleigh bells

― mean mug, headbang & make rapper hands (gr8080), Friday, January 28, 2011 2:55 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

the rill rill loop is from "can you get to that" fyi

ah ok

i mean uk funky's 'hypersyncopated highly danceable tasteful-trashy tension w/ heavy R&B-pop influences' style is way more up my aesthetic alley

completely false binary. night slugs have released uk funky singles ffs. it's possible to like both!

i havent heard the complete recorded works of night slugs its true
but 'wut' does fit into my 'false binary'

no it doesn't, because they're not in opposition to each other and in fact are intertwined with each other. this is starting to get tedious b/c you haven't heard half the music you're dismissing, have no idea about the scene it comes from and are projecting negative connotations on to it based on severely limited evidence

im basing it on the sound of the songs i have heard vs the sound of the funky mixes ive heard

pretty simple

the kind of person in the u.s. who this will ultimately appeal to is the kind of person who does have some weird issues w/ american pop music ...

see, and again with this. you dodge from a perfectly reasonable, "musically this 'juke/s&c/crunk filtered thru british sensibility' isnt the direction i like to hear the music going," to a weird insinuation about the weirdness of the people who do want the music to go that way. idgi, and it strikes me as unjustified. unpack?

u can link me to a mix to destroy my prejudices if u want tho

i've already pointed you towards a selection of tracks.

see, and again with this. you dodge from a perfectly reasonable, "musically this 'juke/s&c/crunk filtered thru british sensibility' isnt the direction i like to hear the music going," to a weird insinuation about the weirdness of the people who do want the music to go that way. idgi, and it strikes me as unjustified. unpack?

― normal_fantasy-unicorns (contenderizer), Friday, January 28, 2011 2:15 PM (15 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this accusation has a context -- years of ppl thinking their music is 'smarter' or better than music that fits outside of their values, ppl mistaking their values for universal 'smart' ones -- these ppl dont like rapping, highly value texture or intricacies or high-concept 'influences for influences sake'. not per se talking about night slugs uk fans, but of my anticipation of who this stuff will eventually crossover to

i've already pointed you towards a selection of tracks.

― lextasy refix (lex pretend), Friday, January 28, 2011 2:18 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i will check them when i get home from work, a mix seemed more germane considering this is (is it?) dance music

it may well be but i'm busy/watching al jazeera/etc and don't have time to go through all the relevant ones and think about which one's the best

not per se talking about night slugs uk fans, but of my anticipation of who this stuff will eventually crossover to

ie PROJECTING - as i keep saying this DOESN'T apply to NS. idk, you seem to be very into your "populist fun dance music that girls like" vs "boring nerdy ~smart~ music that boys who don't dance like" binary, which is fine enough because it's one we're all familiar with, but if you really don't want to believe that you're off-base trying to fit NS into it, is anything actually going to convince you otherwise?

not per se talking about night slugs uk fans, but of my anticipation of who this stuff will eventually crossover to

ie PROJECTING - as i keep saying this DOESN'T apply to NS. idk, you seem to be very into your "populist fun dance music that girls like" vs "boring nerdy ~smart~ music that boys who don't dance like" binary, which is fine enough because it's one we're all familiar with, but if you really don't want to believe that you're off-base trying to fit NS into it, is anything actually going to convince you otherwise?

― lextasy refix (lex pretend), Friday, January 28, 2011 2:26 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

dude ive explained already -- the music makes certain aesthetic choices that will appeal to u.s. nerdy ~smart~ lames & im tired of those aesthetic choices -- paraphrasing grady this is big room witch house. need i say more

Okay, I listened to "Wut" from the beginning to the end, and I can sorta see why people think it's not particularly danceable, or at least why I personally might have some problems dancing to it. Basically, to me this sounds like early 90s helium hardcore (Omni Trio, etc) with some trancey synths, but with much slower BPMs than in hardcore or trance. The lower BPMs in themselves don't make a tune undanceable, but it also has heavy syncopation in the drums and not a particularly strong bassline that would be easy to follow. Basically I feel that the combination of slow tempo and heavy syncopation make it hard for the dancer to follow the beat with his/her legs, and in that case you need to have a strong bassline (which rap and rnb tunes in the same BPM range tend to have) for your body to anchor to, and to which you can move your hips.

That said, I haven't actually heard "Wut" in a club, so maybe in practice it works, but it certainly isn't a tune to which I immediately want to shake my ass when I hear it on my stereo. I still like it anyway.

its prob for the best that i take back the part about 'u.s. lames' & just point out that i think the parties thrown by ppl who are really really into this stuff would be lame, which is actually more what i said upthread anyway ... not judging ppl who really like the music, just think it makes for ehh dance music personally

also fyi 'wut' seems really well constructed & nicely textured & there is lots to like abt it imo -- i can see how its a highlight of its genre -- just not sure i like the defining characteristics of that genre

(the 'lames' thing is unnecessarily inflammatory obv)

years of ppl thinking their music is 'smarter' or better than music that fits outside of their values, ppl mistaking their values for universal 'smart' ones -- these ppl dont like rapping, highly value texture or intricacies or high-concept 'influences for influences sake'.

okay, so you're bugged by people who think their taste is smarter, better and/or more universal than anyone else's and who don't like rapping. i get it, in that those people would bug me, too, if i had to listen to them with any regularity. but i don't. that's the thing. there certainly doesn't seem to be much vocal ilxor support for such ideas & values (not in the present moment, anyway). so i'm inclined to agree with lex. there's some kind of projection going on.

what's weird is that you're one the few people around here who's willing to dump on other people for being somehow wrong or ignorant in their tastes. have felt that lash myself. ironic, you know?

what is going on here?

clusterfucks r us

the music makes certain aesthetic choices that will appeal to u.s. nerdy ~smart~ lames

i mean, come on. this is the sound of you announcing that your music is 'smarter' or better than music that fits outside your values - and preemptively smacking down the opposition.

its not projection dude! 'ppl like this historically have these aesthetic preferences' 'this music has similar aesthetics' 'that pushes me away from this music'

i also find it not partic danceable, & lacking in a dimension music i do like has

i mean, come on. this is the sound of you announcing that your music is 'smarter' or better than music that fits outside your values - and preemptively smacking down the opposition.

― normal_fantasy-unicorns (contenderizer), Friday, January 28, 2011 2:47 PM (42 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah i admitted tho that this was a misstatement that was more about riling than explaining my position

some choice have been overrated for years, imo this music reinforces dynamics that have long been overhyped by certain critics & ppl, now ill have to put up w/ hearing this ish at the end of the night at clubs & bars & parties in chicago, no thanks

some aesthetic choices

fyi the 'ghetto division' kingdom performed with includes a member for whom 77 era sock rob thr33zy was named

i kind of see where deej is coming from in that a lot of the stuff that i read abt night slugs puts me off (the recontextualising of juke/s&c/baltimore etc) and for that reason i haven't been to any of the nights or listened to that much of the records. honestly tho that reaction is a personal and somewhat subconscious one - like maybe when lex (and others, me included) get riled up by indie bands 'recontexualising' r&b songs. but 'wut' is a great song (i didn't vote for it purely because there were 25 tracks i've listened to more this year) and makes me want to hear more. lex is right tho that there's no real binary here. this stuff exists perfectly happily alongside uk funky and other london niche dance music scenes.

the music makes certain aesthetic choices that will appeal to u.s. nerdy ~smart~ lames

also you keep insisting this is the audience even though everyone on this thread who actually goes to clubs where it's played has said that the audience is as much gays + girls as dudes?

anyway. lou put this mix in the WUT thread, which you obviously haven't read, but here's a mix that uses it well - http://kkingdomm.com/audio/factmix_july2010.mp3 (track listing at http://www.factmag.com/2010/07/30/fact-mix-171-kingdom/ )

some choice have been overrated for years, imo this music reinforces dynamics that have long been overhyped by certain critics & ppl

i dunno, it seems to me that you can't say these sorts of things unless you think that there's some kind of universal baseline standard that everybody's supposed to hew to. values change over time, and in this or that moment, some qualities will be more popular or well-respected than others. i guess there's every reason to try to push the culture towards what you think is best, but when you say "overrated" and "overhyped," i just hear "popular" (with a dash of "and i don't like it").

hey dude i took that part back but obv im referring to a predicted eventual possible crossover xp to lex

i dunno, it seems to me that you can't say these sorts of things unless you think that there's some kind of universal baseline standard that everybody's supposed to hew to. values change over time, and in this or that moment, some qualities will be more popular or well-respected than others. i guess there's every reason to try to push the culture towards what you think is best, but when you say "overrated" and "overhyped," i just hear "popular" (with a dash of "and i don't like it").

― normal_fantasy-unicorns (contenderizer), Friday, January 28, 2011 3:02 PM (43 seconds ago) Bookmark

i disagree, & ive already mentioned several characteristics that map out over historically-accepted 'smart ppl music.'

of course values change, but the underlying tensions & conflicts remain, just w/ different signifiers shifting around them

it's not really 'smart ppl music' tho just like cutting edge urban trend music which as i've mentioned on here before i find a bit exhausting

but ftr i think it's awesome that this track was number one!

someone give me a set up for an 'in my world of smart ppl' joke

urban music filtered thru a trendy filter has been pretty much the hip music of the last decade since hollertronix blew away electroclash anyway, i do think these guys are doing it differently -- theres def a feeling of 'putting our own stamp on it' or w/e, like rave music vs. chicago house -- its just that compared w/ early rave afai can tell it skips the function of its inspiration -- are these dudes all drinking sizzurp and footworking?

deej did you make these criticisms about minimal techno, out of interest? strikes me that also elicits similar "wtf can't dance to this" reactions in some first-time listeners. i think a track like "wut" (tho not the NS aesthetic as a whole) finding popularity on a board where early/mid-00s kompakt is canon shouldn't be surprising.

hey dude i took that part back but obv im referring to a predicted eventual possible crossover xp to lex

ok fine. anyway you have plenty of listening material now! and it's all good too.

just to make clear since it was quoted 2x after i posted a retraction i dont think that only lames listen to this stuff, lots of american ppl / writers i respect listen to & enjoy it, matos, mike p0well, etc, i do think there is something worthwhile about taking a critical position in opposition to it and the aesthetic choices the genre has made

i think that the reason that night slugs is different to hollertronix is a) it's not so obnoxious and b) because of the strong crossover with the "home-grown" (not that this really means anything) london sounds xxp

So ... I like a lot of electronic music, but all the dance-nerd debate in this thread has gotten pretty tiresome.

Peace.

i think its p much over? weve drawn the lines iirc

ive already mentioned several characteristics that map out over historically-accepted 'smart ppl music.'

― *kl0p* (deej), Friday, January 28, 2011 1:06 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark

is this what you mean: these ppl dont like rapping, highly value texture or intricacies or high-concept 'influences for influences sake'.

i guess i might agree with that, to an extent. i'd say that "smart people music" is a construct in american culture and that it does often include those characterists. it's also often averse to metal, punk, pop in general and/or rock in general. the construct flexible and varies from subculture to subculture, individual to individual - but yeah, it exists, and what you mention is part of it.

while i think it's good to question that, i think it's super lame to sneer at music because you assume it might appeal to people who might harbor such ideas. it's worse to sneer at people whose tastes happen to intersect with the parts of the "smart music" construct you have issues with.

oh wait, it's over? never mind. [gathers crayons]

In the collage there's a tiny part that says, "Yin Jim, W. Lester Duo, and the Bones of a Dead Coyote." Is that related to the song "Yin Jim vs. the Vomit Creature"?

NH: There's this psychic agent team for this one cause who are against the other group of agents who are trying to control things. Both sides are trying to control freedom, yin and yang. One side is lead by Yin Jim and he has a fucked-up sidekick named W. Lester Duo, like a snake-oil salesman. They're heroin addicts. Everyone's a heroin addict in the future. He's waiting for Yin Jim to come back from copping. Yin Jim's out with the Bones of a Dead Coyote, the coyote spirit that's Yin Jim's master, you see what I'm saying?

Sort of.

NH: Two guys and a dog. It's a kid's story. One guy's a Parker Stevenson kind of guy, and the other's...

JH: Like Sancho Panza.

NH: But weirder even. They're walking on the beach on the way home. These other agents are looking for these life-giving crystals. Reanimating crystals. It's a classic sci-fi image, you know what I mean?

Most assuredly.

NH: These agents from the other side who are fighting for world domination, but more like controlling people and systemizing everything, they attack Yin Jim and the Bones of a Dead Coyote because they think they've got the crystals on them, but the crystals are at home and all they've got is heroin. Back home, W. Lester Duo can't wait anymore so he starts looking around for the stash and he finds the crystals. He thinks they're heroin. Since Yin Jim's been waylaid by these other agents, he goes ahead and does it up. Cut back and the Bones are just laying there because Yin Jim's been taken away. He has to be in the vicinity so there can be a strong psychic bond to animate him. Yin Jim's concentration was broken by the agents interrogating him about where the crystals are. W. Lester Duo does so much of the crystals that it makes him puke. The crystals come out with his vomit and goes down into the sewer system and this sewage-vomit creature rises out of the San Francisco Bay. Meanwhile, Yin Jim gets beat up and hit so hard that it releases some psychic anger and reanimates the Bones, who run to W. Lester Duo, who's laying in the bathroom all fucked up. The coyote passes on the energy, because they're all psychic agents. Psychic warriors. You know what I'm saying?

I follow you.

NH: So they rescue Yin Jim. They find out what happened and W. Lester Duo's like, "Gee, I'm sorry, I didn't know it was crystals. I thought it was heroin. " Yin Jim's like, "Do you know what you've done? You've created the Vomit Creature that's terrorizing the city." They do battle with it, vanquish it, but not until after it kills a bunch of people on Broadway and Columbus. Trashes City Lights bookstore. Goes into the Garden of Eden, starts rampaging onstage, kidnaps one of the girls, who they accidentally kill during the battle. You know, "It's a close shot, but I think I can get it. Oh, shit. Missed." They give her a shot of the life-giving crystals so she's alive again, but she's all fucked up. This go-go dancer who's really sexy but she's cut on her tits so they're flapping around and she's full of bullet holes, covered with Vomit Creature marks that can't be removed. Then they go into a bar, Mr. Bing's, to celebrate another day in the secret psychic service. Now it's four people - the go-go dancer, the zombie, Yin Jim , W. Lester Duo, and the Bones of a Dead Coyote.

i guess u could say that i prefer music that feels more balanced in its deployment of 'smart music' constructs than this does -- obvi i like various types of 'smart music' too but it makes me cynical when i feel like stuff gets a pass for doing something that doesnt strike me as particularly interesting but its culturally coded in the 'right' way

aka, agree 2 disagree

want to see royal trux movie

ok - this argument has dragged on to the point of tedium, but I'm going to inject my two cents anyway...

I think maybe the reason we have these disagreements is that in the US, dance music is largely an underground and fairly insular thing, not unlike metal. We don't really have dance hits here. When Americans experience dance music, it's at raves or rave-oriented clubs, it tends to be more hard-edged, more mind-altering, altogether crazier in its general vibe.

So the consensus dance hits from the UK mystify us to a certain extent because they come across as much lighter, more urbane, more laid back. It's kind of like "that's it? how do you party to this stuff?" Doesn't mean it's bad, it's just hard for some of us to get why a certain track might be the best when there is so much out there.

Then when some Americans start to latch on to some of the popular UK tracks, we get our backs up because they maybe come across as dilletantes who get all their music through the internet rather than going to clubs and parties.

I know a lot of this is probably based on unfair assumptions, but maybe it explains a bit why we get stuck on this topic.

dilletantes who get all their music through the internet

I prefer to call it critical distance...

As an American, I don't think I'll ever really understand the role of dance music in British popular culture or the UK class system. Thankfully I can try to screen those out and just listen to music.