― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 June 2006 23:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ (chaki), Monday, 12 June 2006 23:18 (eighteen years ago) link
Whereas I think a lot of people noticed the dead rat. It's just that most of us don't find it at all pleasant or interesting, and even most of the rest of us never thought to use it as an excuse to feel superior to people. People don't need to be felt superior to. We're just over there doing a thing, okay, Tool? You can leave us alone now.
You have your dead rat to occupy you, right?
And maybe you can hold up the rat as though it were a puppet and, apropos of nothing, deliver a monologue in a fake rat voice about God and turnips or something else which is OMG Completely Random. That will show people that you are Well-Rounded and Not Too Serious. Nice work, Tool.
― Pessimist (Pessimist), Monday, 12 June 2006 23:24 (eighteen years ago) link
― ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ (chaki), Monday, 12 June 2006 23:26 (eighteen years ago) link
― Marmot 4-Tay (marmotwolof), Monday, 12 June 2006 23:29 (eighteen years ago) link
http://toolshed.down.net/pix/10k_promo/02.jpg
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Monday, 12 June 2006 23:31 (eighteen years ago) link
― Pessimist (Pessimist), Monday, 12 June 2006 23:32 (eighteen years ago) link
― ath (ath), Monday, 12 June 2006 23:35 (eighteen years ago) link
THEY ARE A BAND BRO. GOD U R DUMB.
― ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ (chaki), Monday, 12 June 2006 23:46 (eighteen years ago) link
― Marmot 4-Tay (marmotwolof), Monday, 12 June 2006 23:56 (eighteen years ago) link
― ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ (chaki), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 00:09 (seventeen years ago) link
How about this for an exercise. Give me the lyrics of one Tool song. Any Tool song. Then try to act like they're defensible.
― Pessimist (Pessimist), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 00:21 (seventeen years ago) link
"Du Cotton-Eyed Liquid Leiben...BUT WHO'S BUYING?"
How about this for an exercise. Give me the lyrics of one Tool song.
You fail. (We're here to talk about music, not your fucking poetry slams.)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 00:22 (seventeen years ago) link
"IF THERE'S NO REAL MEANING IN THE LYRICS THEN IT MEANS NOTHING! AND NO REAL HUMOR EITHER!"
"..."
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 00:23 (seventeen years ago) link
Tool - Hooker With a Penis
I met a boy wearing vans, 501s, and aDope beastie t, nipple rings, andNew tattoos that claimed that heWas ogt,From 92,The first ep.
And in betweenSips of cokeHe told me thatHe thoughtWe were sellin out,Layin down,Suckin upTo the man.
Well now Ive got someA-dvice for you, little buddy.Before you point the fingerYou should know thatIm the man,
And if Im the man,Then youre the man, andHes the man as well so you canPoint that fuckin finger up your ass.
All you know about me is what Ive sold you,Dumb fuck.I sold out long before you ever heard my name.
I sold my soul to make a record,Dip shit,And you bought one.
So Ive got someAdvice for you, little buddy.Before you point your fingerYou should know thatIm the man,If Im the fuckin manThen youre the fuckin man as wellSo you canPoint that fuckin finger up your ass.
All you read andWear or see andHear on tvIs a productBegging for yourFatass dirtyDollar
So...shut up and
Buy my new recordSend more moneyFuck you, buddy.
― ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ (chaki), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 00:32 (seventeen years ago) link
― ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ (chaki), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 00:35 (seventeen years ago) link
Two of them are by Elvis Costello.(sorry for the cheapshot i am just kidding)
― Marmot 4-Tay (marmotwolof), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 00:40 (seventeen years ago) link
Now, if you don't want to argue with me on that level, that's your right. But your cheap, stupid mockery is more or less exactly the sort of flashy, unpleasant, and unsound thing I am criticizing in Tool. You're not doing yourself any favors, guys.
― Pessimist (Pessimist), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 00:43 (seventeen years ago) link
Are you a Scientologist?
― Marmot 4-Tay (marmotwolof), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 00:46 (seventeen years ago) link
― Pessimist (Pessimist), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 00:47 (seventeen years ago) link
― Simon H. (Simon H.), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 00:52 (seventeen years ago) link
― Pessimist (Pessimist), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 00:55 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marmot 4-Tay (marmotwolof), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 00:56 (seventeen years ago) link
a) arguing with an incoherent dyed in the wool tool fool is a waste of time.
b) arguing that you can't look past lyrics will get you nowhere fast - every time!
c) ned is right
― Simon H. (Simon H.), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 01:01 (seventeen years ago) link
2A) You're probably right.
2B) Is it better if I argue that I can't look past lyrics? (Not that I'd be inclined to enjoy Tool's sort of heavy guitar-sludge anyway.)
2C) Maybe Ned has been right on occasion. I don't know Ned. Doesn't change the fact that Tool are a lot of compassionless, self-satisfied bastards. (Or, alternately, one compassionless, self-satisfied bastard fronting some guys with musical instruments.) Was probably not entirely wise for me to say it, of course.
― Pessimist (Pessimist), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 01:08 (seventeen years ago) link
Surely Pessimist has some kind of affection for Brian Eno, easily the best exemplar of this school of lyric-writing I can come up with off the top of my head. Beck maybe? A lot of people seem to hate him though. Point is;
Ned Is Right
(Which is not meant to imply that Pessimist might not also be right on some of that, particularly the idea of using a dead rat as a ventriloquist's dummy?)
― owen moorhead (i heart daniel miller), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 01:25 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marmot 4-Tay (marmotwolof), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 01:30 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 01:33 (seventeen years ago) link
The thing that separates Tool from them, I think, is Tool's relentless anger and negativity. Yes, it is all right if your lyrics don't do much in and of themselves -- and I didn't say "lyrics" so much as "authorial voice", which is partially semantic, but it's worth pointing out that -- lyrics or no -- you, and I, and everyone else has at least a general sense of what Eno and Beck's aesthetics are about.
I think the difference with Tool is that they're claiming more than that -- they're claiming to have something to say that justifies the deeply unpleasant, violently angry nature of their music (both lyrically and, to a lesser extent, sonically). And when you ask them what it is, it comes out, "bluh bluh corporations bluh the government bluh bluh non-tradional sex acts and/or images of feces bluh!" Don't go all vague on me, Tool, is what I'm saying. Don't show me a lot of disgusting things unless you can justify my unsettlement -- otherwise it's just shock for shock's sake.
And as far as I'm concerned, Tool don't even come close to justifying it -- their message, as it were, is a bunch of empty and bitter cliches. And if I wanted empty cliches, well, there are a lot of empty cliches out there that don't harangue me about ridiculous conspiracy theories or force me to contemplate the image of a man sucking his own dick. I'll probably listen to them, then.
And yeah, I understand that I privilege lyrics more than most people. We may be arguing at cross purposes from the beginning, really.
― Pessimist (Pessimist), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 01:43 (seventeen years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 02:06 (seventeen years ago) link
― Pessimist (Pessimist), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 02:26 (seventeen years ago) link
― ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ (chaki), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 02:55 (seventeen years ago) link
― askance johnson (sdownes), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 12:54 (seventeen years ago) link
I tend to judge lyrics on how well the suit the song's mood and meter; Tool rates pretty highly on that scale for me. "Meaning" is a bonus.
― Jesus Dan (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 13:10 (seventeen years ago) link
― mummy wrapped in bacon (nickalicious), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 13:57 (seventeen years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 14:12 (seventeen years ago) link
― toby (tsg20), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 21:21 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 21:26 (seventeen years ago) link
Don't just call me pessimistTry and read between the linesI can't imagine why you wouldn'tWelcome any change, my friend
That doesn't seem relentlessly negative to me. Also, did you have no metal as a child? I'm getting that feeling.
― lrsn (larssen), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 21:43 (seventeen years ago) link
― ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ (chaki), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 21:56 (seventeen years ago) link
But perhaps it's more relevant to the question that I hate conspiracy theorists in general, and have the same violently negative reaction to Bill Hicks? I just think their (Hicks'/Tool's) modus operandi -- alleging frequently-unspecified and always-unverified misdeeds on the part of likewise-vague Large and Monolithic Cultural Forces, spuriously connecting said forces to repugnant/scatological images, and slapping a veneer of quasi-mystical overtones on the whole thing -- is both intellectually dishonest and incredibly tiresome.
And what kind of dick musician refers to the listener as "my friend"? Talk about a thing you only do if you have an impractical haircut!
― Pessimist (Pessimist), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 22:00 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 22:02 (seventeen years ago) link
― ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ (chaki), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 22:06 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marmot 4-Tay (marmotwolof), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 22:09 (seventeen years ago) link
― ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ¨ˆ (chaki), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 22:15 (seventeen years ago) link
- Do you realize you still haven't even tried to argue against me?
- I like some rap music; I can't say I'm well-versed in the field. What does that have to do with anything?
Don't give me "sense of humor". Have you been reading any of my posts? Way funnier than anything you're coming up with. And the kind of embarrassing, childish dick-and-poo talk Tool engage in is basically the antithesis of humor. (There's something else I could say here, but I won't.)
― Pessimist (Pessimist), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 23:06 (seventeen years ago) link
*blinks*
Look, maybe you really think you're funny -- hey, I often have the same affliction (but I don't AUTOMATICALLY assume I'm funny). All you're doing is coming across as one of the most tendentiously dull writers I've read in a long time (and believe me, when you work even slightly in academia, you get to know the type). There's nothing funny in your posts -- intentionally, at least. But if your goal is deep satire, then congratulations, you really capture the mode of suicidal boredom with aplomb.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 23:09 (seventeen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 23:21 (seventeen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 13 June 2006 23:22 (seventeen years ago) link