Is anyone anticipating the new Diddy album?

not knowing tears from a clown or aint no stoppin us now is bonkers

― *gets the power* (deej), Thursday, January 20, 2011 1:13 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

You defended him not hearing Licensed To Ill early today, what the fuck

honestly - I know all of these songs, having grown up in a house where grown R&B was played all of the time, but I never have to urge to actually listen to "Ain't No Stoppin Us Now" or "House is Not A Home" ever so I don't really fault lex for not knowing them... songs like those I place alongside, like, "Before I Let Go" by Frankie Beverly & Maze or something like that . Those classics that get played at every family gathering and are sort of "lived in", but not something I'd listen to on my own accord. Yeah, it is good to know them just as a fan of the music, but I don't think knowing McFadden & Whitehead's catalog really helps to put, say, Cassie in any particular context.

― The Brainwasher, Thursday, January 20, 2011 3:48 PM (2 minutes ago)

that's not really the point, though. lex and j0rdan not knowing those songs is like some politics thread regular one day going "wait, who's this nixon guy you're talking about?"

I guess! Except if they thought me about Smokey Robinson on history class

In

i'm considering putting forward a Tim F-style "theory" about people who have pored over every note The-Dream has ever released and how familiar they are with the Smokey Robinson songbook

but I don't think knowing McFadden & Whitehead's catalog really helps to put, say, Cassie in any particular context.

Obviously when I was talking about listening to old school r&b, it wasn't to make a broad comparison between old school and new. It all depends on what the song/artist reprsented and the traces of influence they have to modern artists. For example, Smokey Robinson -> Babyface -> Ne-Yo.

A person may not need to know "Ain't No Stopping Us Now" for Cassie, but they could use that song for context in talking about say The Roots and John Legend's Wake Up album or talking about if and how dance music lyrics can imply something political or about social identity.

And for shits and giggles

Diana Ross -> Janet Jackson -> maybe Freestyle -> Cassie

I see what you're saying, I mean - obviously they should totally check those songs out, but I don't think it is a necessity for them to be familiar with them.

Not listening to Madonna is criminal though! O_O

tears of a clown is in the ether to the extent that there's really no telling what it has influenced

And I see what you are saying also. Sometimes it is good to not be bogged down with history of a certain genre. That way their analysis/thoughts are more interesting. I just lived with music snobs as parents.

xp

so this diddy album

im not sure i understand where you're drawing this line bw! its exactly bcuz they are already 'context' for you that ppl who are coming to this genre from outside should probably seek this stuff out!

it's not even so much a "how dare you" thing as how many specific cultural blinds spots do you have to have to not have ever heard "Tears Of A Clown"? like how many movies and TV shows has it been in?

obv that's not as much an issue for the lex and his comedy fatwa, but still.

as i said, i grew up pretty much without being exposed to pop culture bar what i happened to find for myself, with all the resources of a pre-internet 13-year-old in rural england

i mean one of the things abt music writing is that you're always making a bunch of assumptions about your audience & it helps i think to place yourself in a lineage & tradition as much as you are breaking away from it. i reject the idea that u can be an interesting or useful critic if u just operate entirely on a maxim of blithe unawareness & rejection of all canons -- that doesnt mean u need to pay adherence to them, but if yr modus operandi is upsetting the traditional rock n roll canon i think u need to be at least playing with / incorporating rival, less-privileged canons so that your arguments have some kind of underlying social legitimacy, aka people who will agree with you

xp deej, I definitely agree that they should seek out older/"classic" songs and artists. I'm making a distinction between that and saying "you need to listen to these old records to be able to speak with authority on these new records" - not that anyone here was saying that per se, but just in general I'm against the idea of a canon of required listening in any context.

i mean, i agree about context, and i intend to hear these songs, along with approx 5 million others that i should hear, but i'm just not bothered about having missed what other people consider "standards", let alone ashamed, because i have heard a shit ton of music, way more than most people, and i can guarantee that each of you is unfamiliar with multiple songs and artists i consider standards, so

it's not even so much a "how dare you" thing as how many specific cultural blinds spots do you have to have to not have ever heard "Tears Of A Clown"? like how many movies and TV shows has it been in?

― some dude, Thursday, January 20, 2011 1:07 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Unfortunately not that many. Motown music as a pop culture force has waned considerably since the 2000s despite the many interesting re-issues from the label. It's 50th anniversary passed not too long ago and it wasn't covered much by the media. I predict that Motown and its ilk will be seen as ancient and irrelevant like doo-wop before it.

xxxps not simply because they will agree w you obv -- it just means that your arguments are grounded in common ground between u & your readers, rather than simply reporting your personal musical experience

I would have never heard any of these songs without the internet and my interest in r'n'b and pop. I might be significantly younger than you guys though

different subject already, never mind

all 3 of these still get played on radio. do yall never check radio? v103 plays the vandross & mcfadden/whitehead all the time, and basically any oldies station ever plays 'clown.'

I don't even know what the oldies r&b station is here \(o_O)/ -- I listen CDs or the stations that play rick ross \(o_O)/ -- my parents listened to smooth jazz or theatre soundtracks \(o_O)/

UK radio is all shit and i don't listen to it, apart from sometimes to friends' rinse fm shows

i don't object to people saying "hey this song is good check it out", i object to the outraged "HOW can you NEVER have heard this?" - the answer is "quite easily"

i feel like we should have a 'mordy's metal club'-style thread where we make j0rdan listen to records from before say 1997

start with harlem world & move backwards

Lol honestly I would participate in that

i kinda do want to hear jordan's reactions to hearing 'tears' for the first time tbh

itd have to be like, each ilxor curating the thread recommends one song per day, j0rdan reviews

maybe just make it a tumblr or something idk

I listened to it a few days ago just to see if I had heard it but didn't recognize it by name

Lol I'm not making a tumblr

haha ok j0rdan before i start a thread how should we do this -- you listen to one album a week as selected by a rotating panel of volunteers, plus any individual song anyone in the thread wants to suggest?

i feel like w/ albums it'll be easier to get off track & we should focus on singles

Ha, alright that sounds cool

Maybe an album every two weeks

i will be really tempted whenever i have a kid to raise my firstborn as if s/he lives in an alternate universe where there is no such thing as pop music or network tv or radio, just like, sun ra records constantly every day and a tv screen that only ever plays documentaries abt gregorian monks. kind of of cruel but i feel like they would have a unique way of processing aspects of life when they grow up, & will probably make some impt contributions to social theory

pretty sure there'll be tons of babies of the post-iPod world who grow up with a hermetically sealed musical worldview of their parents' favorite indie/niche music and nothing else.

I don't think what people actually heard growing up has much of an impact on the way they think about music one way or another. What is much more important IMO is your early interactions with friends etc and the way music fits into that. It's the role of music rather than the music itself that is important.

my favourite smokey robinson song is cruising but thats cos i sing it to myself when im uh

you sing it to yourself when you sing it to yourself

yes

xp tim - maybe. idk some of the best & earliest memories of my life are singing along to jams in the car w my parents, feel like that has affected me & my tastes in some profound way. but my dad has really good taste in music & i never really stopped thinking that, even during the times when i had the worst taste in music. so i guess that obscures things. first time i heard sex pistols & public enemy was browsing his cd shelf. my dad's ultimate most played album/comp is probably grosse point blank soundtrack & i consider that aesthetic an integral part of my musical dna

my dad owns two tapes

what are they

im not sure but they were in the same cupboard i found the magazines in

frampton comes alive and something by gary puckett and the union gap prob

the magazines eh

was "frampton comes alive" a tape or a magazine.

its rumours and born in the usa. my mam owns about seven records by james last and he is the only person she ever saw in concert up until she took my little sister to a westlife concert a few years ago.