Agreed... it's obviously not
― abcfsk, Monday, 17 January 2011 23:28 (thirteen years ago) link
*rolls eyes* - that's been the dominant non-pfork crowd consensus since day 1
seriously dogg basic instinct over l/h is an instant sb
― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Monday, 17 January 2011 23:44 (thirteen years ago) link
that's been the dominant non-pfork crowd consensus since day 1
lolwut, it's consensus according to a handful of people here, two of whom are pfork writers
― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Monday, 17 January 2011 23:49 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah i meant to say "ilx" but point still stands
― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 00:03 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah well i am not part of that consensus
― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 00:05 (thirteen years ago) link
i'm aware of that; i was pointing out that calling the trend of considering l/h to be his best work "recent" seemed false, that's all
― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 00:15 (thirteen years ago) link
It's a strong tie between Love King and How To Be A Lady Vol. 1.
With repeated side-by-side listens of both albums, I've noticed that an awful lot of the songs on Memoirs of an Imperfect Angel seem to lift the backing tracks and melodies from songs on Love/Hate.
― Rotating & Blunders (MintIce), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 02:24 (thirteen years ago) link
so far as far as favorite of his solo albums, I'm giving the slight nod to Love vs. Money, just due to the sweeping epic nature of it. must be my metal background but I tend to always pick those as the favorite.
all amazing though.
― five deadly venoms (San Te), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 04:06 (thirteen years ago) link
Hmmm... no love for Nivea - Animalistic which is the first all produced The-Dream album before his debut. But then again he was still finding his sound and it leaned towards crunk a little.
i thought about this, but didn't terius just do production on this, mostly? I was going for stuff where he also handled a fair chunk of the songwriting
― ilxor, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 04:23 (thirteen years ago) link
my ranking looks something like--
Love King = Love Vs Money >>> Love/Hate = Basic Instinct = How to Be a Lady >>>>> Memoirs
sorry lex
first two are interchangeable for #1 depending on day/mood/etc.
― ilxor, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 04:25 (thirteen years ago) link
Fuck yeah xp ilxor. I am completely with you. Love hate is great no doubt but the latter two give me much more pleasure at karaoke.
― Captain Ahab, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 04:33 (thirteen years ago) link
L/H = HtBaL > LvM > Memoirs = LK > BI
― Alex in Montreal, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 05:31 (thirteen years ago) link
How To Be A Lady > Love/Hate > Love King > Basic Instinct > Love vs Money > Memoirs
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 10:22 (thirteen years ago) link
food for thought, here's how these albums rank in sales:1. Love/Hate2. Mariah3. Love Vs. Money4. Love King5. Ciara6. Electrik Red
― some dude, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 13:23 (thirteen years ago) link
Genuinely surprised by that, thought even an underperforming Mariah album would blow all of these away sales-wise.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 13:29 (thirteen years ago) link
This has probably been discussed many times over, but Soundscan numbers on R&B and rap albums have always seemed especially iffy to me. It's been over ten years since I worked in retail or distribution, so maybe the situation is significantly different now. Then (and I'm guessing now), lots of mom and pop stores and small chains weren't on Soundscan. Soundscan attempted to provide "balance" by weighting sales at stores that did have Soundscan. Some stores were weighted up to 10. (Guess which stores were treated nicer by labels and distributors.) So, one copy of the self-titled Aaliyah album at Super-Weighted Retailer would count as ten copies sold, while sales at 10-12 (maybe) non-Soundscan stores weren't reported.
― Andy K, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 14:03 (thirteen years ago) link
Memoirs was Mariah's lowest selling album ever, and it went gold, because, well, she's a superstar. Love/Hate was The-Dream's biggest album and it sold just a lil more than Memoirs.
I don't see any reason not to trust SoundScan numbers these days, it's more a question of how much is being consumed and listened to that isn't obtained through any retail channels.
― some dude, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 14:13 (thirteen years ago) link
xpost
One store where I worked was not a Soundscan store. We had a midnight sale for R., Aquemini, The Love Movement, Hard Knock Life, Black Star, Foundation. The store across the street, if I recall correctly, was either double- or- triple-weighted and was more of a rock store. (The kind of store where you ask them the price of the new KRS-One and the person on the phone asks you how to spell it.) They also had a midnight sale and likely sold around a dozen copies of Deserter's Songs or Soul Coughing or whatever, while we did several thousand dollars of business, primarily through those big rap and R&B albums. That's one example of how the figures can be out of whack.
― Andy K, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 14:18 (thirteen years ago) link
(The KRS-One thing actually happened, btw.)
― Andy K, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 14:21 (thirteen years ago) link
it's more a question of how much is being consumed and listened to that isn't obtained through any retail channels.
Definitely agree with that, but Soundscan, ehhh... *shrug*
― Andy K, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 14:23 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah i mean i'm sure there are some interesting sales figure distortions, but aside from anecdotal evidence like that it's hard to even guess what the 'real' figures would be, and i have no idea what effect it would have on The-Dream's sales vs. Mariah's
― some dude, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 14:35 (thirteen years ago) link
All sales figures should be determined by Slim Thug.
― Andy K, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 14:50 (thirteen years ago) link
ThuggaScan
i've recently got back into 'memoirs' - it is def underrated
i actually can't choose a favourite sorry
― whitney from mtv's the city (tpp), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 14:57 (thirteen years ago) link
love king
― normal_fantasy-unicorns (contenderizer), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 15:04 (thirteen years ago) link
Non-snark question: are there any dudes or ladies apart from Andy who got into the-dream with the first album and also think Love King is best?
― Tim F, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 21:33 (thirteen years ago) link
im sympathetic to that point of view & consider it as good /better than much of his other stuff, & more consistent than love vs money ... but l/h still reins supreme for me
― *gets the power* (deej), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 21:37 (thirteen years ago) link
om some days i might agree with that - i think all these albums are really really close in quality, the best moments on LK are as good or better as the best moments on L/H and LvM, and where LK actually falls into last place is how ordinary its worst moments are (in this regard i definitely don't agree that it's more consistent than LvM, which doesn't have a bad track on it - like my least favourite track on LvM is "rockin' that shit"! which i adore!)
L/H is not exactly consistent either (fucking "falsetto", and i don't care all that much about "luv songs" or "mama"), actually i'm certain that LvM is most consistent for me.
― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 21:43 (thirteen years ago) link
i could agree that LVM is most consistent, cuz i don't really care about "ditch that..." and i'm sort of love/hate (ha) with "i love your girl". love king, no
― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 21:47 (thirteen years ago) link
― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Tuesday, January 18, 2011 3:43 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
ha yeah see i disagree wildly w/ most of this obv -- rockin that shit >>> walking on the moon, my love, etcand falsetto & luv songs are 2 of his best ever
― *gets the power* (deej), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 21:50 (thirteen years ago) link
def
― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 21:51 (thirteen years ago) link
All his albums are totally consistent, but LK doesn't have the peaks of the first two.
― The Reverend, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 21:53 (thirteen years ago) link
lol disagree
terius is the kind of dude where we all love him (or in al's case can at least admit he's written several songs he likes/loves) but i basically think you are all completely insane when it comes to what his best qualities/individual songs are. except tim f, feel like that dude knows whats up
― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 21:54 (thirteen years ago) link
well i'm generally with you ("Bed" aside) in thinking the Los shit is usually his best
― some dude, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 21:55 (thirteen years ago) link
"my love" is my favourite terius single!!
what i love about it and "walking on the moon" is how naturally terius's own twist on those particular single types seemed to come - perfect examples of the generic-but-distinct (sui generic!) commercial r&b song i love. their equivalents on LK are a bit rote. "falsetto" is just incredibly annoying, i don't actually enjoy terius's falsetto that much.
― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 21:57 (thirteen years ago) link
YAMAHA
― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 21:58 (thirteen years ago) link
you did admit that "bed" was growing on you last time we talked about it tho iirc! but yes los >> tricky, at least when it comes to dream collabos
jordan s has also expressed this opinion
xxp
― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 21:58 (thirteen years ago) link
except tim f, feel like that dude knows whats up
― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Tuesday, January 18, 2011 3:54 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark
ha but you explicitly disagree w/ some tim f positions here
― *gets the power* (deej), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 22:01 (thirteen years ago) link
― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Tuesday, January 18, 2011 1:58 PM Bookmark
"Fast Car" >
― The Reverend, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 22:06 (thirteen years ago) link
I find it difficult to remember the nuances of our different positions except those that have been crusaded most vociferously or consistently (deej thinks "Walking on the Moon" is the worst song ever; Lex is on some anti-L/H contrastannery etc.)
― Tim F, Tuesday, 18 January 2011 22:08 (thirteen years ago) link
haha. i guess i dont think its the worst song ever -- its more that its so close to being the exact kind of dream song i like, but then it fails at this, which makes it feel like more of a disappointment than his best stuff
fwiw this explains why i love the kris menace/emil version (i may have said this upthread)
― *gets the power* (deej), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 22:10 (thirteen years ago) link
feels like more of a disappointment than his objectively WORST stuff, i mean
― *gets the power* (deej), Tuesday, 18 January 2011 22:11 (thirteen years ago) link
i dont like 'my love' cuz its just kinda boring to me, which feels less offensive
i'm listening to "my love" right now and it's just such an irresistible confection of a song, it makes me totally melt.
― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 00:43 (thirteen years ago) link
i always had an idea to poll dream + los vs dream + tricky
los has all the best joints on l/hi'd give tricky the nod on lvmlk is all terius pretty much tho so w/e
― hard as a markers (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 00:47 (thirteen years ago) link
my order of Dream albums is LvM, LH, then LK.
really close between the first two but LVM starts hard, builds to a fever pitch, then cools out...feel like you takes you through the largest gambit of emotions. Love/Hate's not too far behind, just think the highs are slightly lesser.
― five deadly venoms (San Te), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 00:49 (thirteen years ago) link
― hard as a markers (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, January 18, 2011 7:47 PM (8 minutes ago)
ha i've had this idea too but thought i'd get some eyerolls, anyway yeah it's los for me by quite a bit. even though dream does most of LK by himself i feel like the standouts for me (like "FILA" in particular) are him basically doing a los impression so
and plus los has "turnt out" and "yamaha" too iirc
― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 00:58 (thirteen years ago) link
ok this is just to get the tricky/los division straight in my own mind (i've never been as bothered about it as you guys) -
tricky - i luv your girl, nikki, she needs my love, falsetto, ditch that, mama, rockin' that shit, sweat it out, take u home 2 my mama, love vs money, love vs money pt 2, fancy, right side of my brain, mr yeah, hit it on the road, panties to the sidelos - shawty is da shit, fast car, playin' in her hair, purple kisses, luv songs, livin' a lie, walkin' on the moon, my love, put it down, love king, yamaha, nikki pt 2, abyss, turnt out, veteran, priceless
that kind of surprises me, lots of songs i think of as going together were produced with different people. draw for L/H, tricky wins LvM, los wins LK (duh)
― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 01:03 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah I wonder how meaningful the distinction really is when, like, tricky produced "rockin' that thing" and los produced "abyss".
― Tim F, Wednesday, 19 January 2011 01:11 (thirteen years ago) link
"rockin that shit" is los
― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 19 January 2011 01:15 (thirteen years ago) link
oh lol i did wonder who that was. innntersting
light and airy isn't incorrect i guess but without much to say or sell (even herself as star) i didnt see what there was to engage with other than perhaps the v curious anticlimactic insipidity in itself - for a putative new record deal and renounced media commitments comeback it's less self-effacing than self-abnegating. and really if nicole stans do exist (and i subscribe to the theory she isnt bland but cmon) is any of this what they might want to hear? even lewis hamilton won't shed a single extra follicle
― r|t|c, Friday, 17 October 2014 13:22 (nine years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN5IniOFCr0
still far and away the best look for her here imo
― r|t|c, Friday, 17 October 2014 13:26 (nine years ago) link
presumably randomly drawn out of a plastic bag of terius toni braxton demos but still
― r|t|c, Friday, 17 October 2014 13:29 (nine years ago) link
yeah i liked that one a lot
it certainly doesn't play to the strengths i imagined nicole had but idk i'm not getting the "this could be anyone" vibe that would completely kill it, and neither is it the kind of hodgepodge compromise so many other albums have been this year. i don't know if it's enough to stan for, it's only been one listen
― lex pretend, Friday, 17 October 2014 13:44 (nine years ago) link
yeah no it won't be stan v hate either way. i agree doesn't quite seem anonymous as such but nor am i entirely sure if that's not just solely because it doesn't bear (or bother to bear) the rictus of the despo modern age
― r|t|c, Friday, 17 October 2014 14:18 (nine years ago) link
Man, this song... <3
https://www.audiomack.com/song/3lxi/black-magic-1
― definite classic, predicting a solid 8/10 from the p-fork boys (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 14 May 2015 12:57 (nine years ago) link
love the chorus. sounds slightly demo-ish to me? like I feel like it could be easily improved a little
― johnny crunch, Thursday, 14 May 2015 13:10 (nine years ago) link
just discovered this recently, 2011 Terius/Tricky collab with a Warped Tour band:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cB7_Wonxso
― some dude, Thursday, 14 May 2015 13:14 (nine years ago) link
"Madness" was pretty raw tbh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEY0p0IWfnM
if yr still hating on (individual songs from) latter day the-dream youve gone too far imo
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Wednesday, 6 September 2017 19:19 (six years ago) link
randomly my gf has really gotten into the dream lately and i've realized that these days i think lvm is superior to l/h. i used to not care about the "cohesiveness" or whatever but now from a safe distance the latter is just a much smoother, more pleasant listen
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 6 September 2017 20:48 (six years ago) link
uh thats contradictory, i'm talking about lvm
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 6 September 2017 21:40 (six years ago) link
BabyI hope you save a little pizza for me
― Andy K, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 15:36 (six years ago) link
I don’t really “read” “music criticism” any more, but what is terius’s stature among those in the know these days? prompted by plying HTBAL on repeat for the past week or so… are the kids even aware of this era or do they just know him as the beyonce guy?
― k3vin k., Friday, 30 June 2023 12:23 (eleven months ago) link
Man do these rap producers like share tips on how to be a monster?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/style/2024/06/04/the-dream-channii-monroe-lawsuit/
― Heez, Wednesday, 5 June 2024 10:53 (two weeks ago) link
jesus
― brony james (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 5 June 2024 14:31 (two weeks ago) link
fucking hell.
I knew about the abuse accusations about a decade ago which were bad enough but god this shit is beyond the pale.
― Iacocca Cola (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 5 June 2024 15:55 (two weeks ago) link