deej if the live show $$$$ is a more accurate judge of a rapper's popularity, why does arcade fire play Madison Square Garden and Yo Gotti plays like "Club Destiny" in Orlando?
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:05 (thirteen years ago) link
Arcade Fire should cover Syl Johnson's Is It Because I'm White?
― Cosby You! Black Emperor (Doran), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:09 (thirteen years ago) link
I guess it surprises me a little that there could be an act I've never heard of that is nevertheless more popular than a band with a #1 album. But maybe that's the situation we find ourselves in.
Yes it is pretty convincing that YouTube plays are as accurate an indicator of popularity as billboard charts when you put it that way.
― Two Red Ducks, Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:18 (thirteen years ago) link
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, December 30, 2010 2:05 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
new york is not the center of the universe
& the thing about media attention being self-perpetuating ... theres a snowball effect when something like say cash money or no limit are selling tons in the south -- it forces the majors to come to them -- then they get attendant media attention -- mtv rotation, bet rotation -- which grows into a national profile
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:23 (thirteen years ago) link
― Two Red Ducks, Thursday, December 30, 2010 2:18 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
you're reading the argument backwards -- its that billboard charts are inaccurate too
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:24 (thirteen years ago) link
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, December 30, 2010 2:23 PM (27 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
(what i mean is, this is how it USED to work)
"new york is not the center of the universe"
totally is if you like pizza. and hot fashion models. and rats.
― scott seward, Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:26 (thirteen years ago) link
and dipset
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:26 (thirteen years ago) link
like, im willing to believe arcade fire is more popular than yo gotti ... i dont have an exact grasp of how popular they are relative to him. but i dont think you guys do either. what im trying to say here isnt 'you forgot poland' or w/e with yo gotti, its just that i think the charts are a lot less reliable yardstick than people realize any more
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:30 (thirteen years ago) link
if the Beale Street Music Festival is Memphis's Madison Square Garden than Yo Gotti is still playing at like 5:40 under Seether
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:33 (thirteen years ago) link
can't fight the seether
― scott seward, Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:36 (thirteen years ago) link
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, December 30, 2010 2:33 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
yeah, no
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:39 (thirteen years ago) link
5 star bitch rmx has 15 million youtube views. i think hes doing better than seether
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:40 (thirteen years ago) link
you should explain that to the promoters in his OWN HOME TOWN then
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:41 (thirteen years ago) link
i think patton oswalt would call you a gangsta rap otaku
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:42 (thirteen years ago) link
Alright, deej, you're saying that Gucci and Gotti and Waka--and the gangsta rap genre in general--is just as popular as it ever was, but that a lot of their fans' willingness to download illegally, combined with their integration with new marketing strategies, such as giving way tons of free mixtapes online, are preventing them from making their full presence known on Billboard. And that the rappers who are selling loads of albums are the ones who are crossing over to older, whiter demographics (ie Drake, Kanye, Wayne, Em, etc.).
But gangsta rappers were crossing over back then weren't they? Not even just Biggie and Pac ad Jay-Z but like 3-6 and Master P and Bone Thugs were being listened to and maybe even bought by the '90s equivalent of 'Coldplay fans'. And if gangsta rap isn't reaching those audiences as well anymore--the audiences that still buy albums--I mean, isn't that the definition of a niche market?
― Ned Rag & the Evil Olive Gardens (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:43 (thirteen years ago) link
oh seether has had numerous charting singles & platinum albums as recently as 2007, plus a decade-long career. well yeah of course hes opening for them.
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:43 (thirteen years ago) link
"Alright, deej, you're saying that Gucci and Gotti and Waka--and the gangsta rap genre in general--is just as popular as it ever was, "
no, im not
okay my bad
― Ned Rag & the Evil Olive Gardens (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:44 (thirteen years ago) link
google before zing, you got a thing; zing before google, chariot choogle
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:44 (thirteen years ago) link
― Ned Rag & the Evil Olive Gardens (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, December 30, 2010 2:43 PM (51 seconds ago) Bookmark
i dont really think that they were, no. ime ppl checking u2 records in the late 90s werent fucking w/ rap music. aside from huge huge names like snoop & 50 cent you didnt have that kind of crossover. master p was, despite selling millions and millions of albums, a pretty underground media phenomenon, and middle-aged moms in hoffman estates werent copping their records like they are kanye's now
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:45 (thirteen years ago) link
xp i'm pretty sure my two paragraphs up above do not anywhere add up to 'zing'
― Ned Rag & the Evil Olive Gardens (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:46 (thirteen years ago) link
('sgood though...)
he was talking about me zinging seether, who i knew nothing about
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:46 (thirteen years ago) link
will smith, actually, they were buying
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:47 (thirteen years ago) link
oh right on
I think it's a p. broad generalization to say that W. Smith is the only rapper that older-ish white rock/pop fans were digging...
― Ned Rag & the Evil Olive Gardens (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:51 (thirteen years ago) link
(in the 90s)
― Ned Rag & the Evil Olive Gardens (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:52 (thirteen years ago) link
I knew plenty of people in college in the late 90s that were listening to stuff like Beck and No Doubt as WELL as No Limit shit.
― one pretty obvious guy in the obvious (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 30 December 2010 20:55 (thirteen years ago) link
yah but i mean kanye has long passed that crowd -- hes a straight up household name thats like ... snoop dogg, 50 cent ... who else? maybe dr. dre at one point.
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 21:02 (thirteen years ago) link
im saying that rather than going thru the ranks of rap fans into that crowd, since that crowd is who still moves units, a lot of these rappers are just skipping traditional rap fans altogether & going straight for the joe 12 cd one -- not talking about dudes who liked beck AND no limit
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 21:03 (thirteen years ago) link
"new york is not the center of the universe"totally is if you like pizza. and hot fashion models. and rats.
hopefully the rats do not live in the pizza place.
― Daniel, Esq., Thursday, 30 December 2010 21:08 (thirteen years ago) link
I was going to suggest the suburban moms were buying Lauryn Hill.
― The Reverend, Thursday, 30 December 2010 21:10 (thirteen years ago) link
this seems a bit flimsy and ill-thought out--who does this apply to? drake? kanye (kind of)? certainly doesn't apply to wayne (who kind of invented the new paradigm) or eminem or even t.i., though he hasn't released a major-label album in 2 years and so prolley doesn't apply at all to this conversation (yes I know you didn't say 'lol @ talking about 'album sales' in 2008')
― Ned Rag & the Evil Olive Gardens (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 30 December 2010 21:21 (thirteen years ago) link
also seems to me that 12 cd ppl would the first ones to quit spending money, since they'd have all their needs met with a combination of Livewire and Youtube...
― Ned Rag & the Evil Olive Gardens (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 30 December 2010 21:23 (thirteen years ago) link
maybe not the suburban moms or the swinging Hangover-type thirtysomethings blasting Kanye on their commute home...
― Ned Rag & the Evil Olive Gardens (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 30 December 2010 21:24 (thirteen years ago) link
lil wayne t.i. and jay-z are all street rappers -- all three of whom crossed over to that audience to sell more (t.i. the least successfully)
rappers now who 'actually sell' albums either aim for that audience & sell units (BOB) or dont, and dont (yo gotti)
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 21:25 (thirteen years ago) link
― The Reverend, Thursday, December 30, 2010 3:10 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
this is otm -- weirdly a (superior, but) strangely similar record to Drake's in its split-the-difference approach to rap & R&B
― Ned Rag & the Evil Olive Gardens (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, December 30, 2010 3:23 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
who do u think is buying cds? serious question
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 21:26 (thirteen years ago) link
another question, if anyone can find a source -- id love to know how many cds were sold in 2010 vs. 2000
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Thursday, 30 December 2010 21:27 (thirteen years ago) link
xp the suburban moms or the swinging Hangover-type thirtysomethings blasting Kanye on their commute home...
actually I have no idea...I'm pretty sure a lot of casual music fans I have come across though are downloading 9/10ths of the music in their possession.
― Ned Rag & the Evil Olive Gardens (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 30 December 2010 21:30 (thirteen years ago) link
just wanted to point out that chariot choogle has been OTM in this thread
― contenderizer, Thursday, 30 December 2010 21:31 (thirteen years ago) link
lol that xp was to answer deej's question about who is buying CDs
but srsly my answer is those with enough disposable income...
― Ned Rag & the Evil Olive Gardens (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 30 December 2010 21:31 (thirteen years ago) link
all the HARDCORE MUSIC OBSESSIVES that Drugs A Money knows are the ones buying Susan Boyle CDs
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 30 December 2010 21:32 (thirteen years ago) link
a demographic which is skewing even older and whiter than usual lately
― The Reverend, Thursday, 30 December 2010 21:33 (thirteen years ago) link
point made.
― Ned Rag & the Evil Olive Gardens (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 30 December 2010 21:35 (thirteen years ago) link
A couple Bachar Mar-Khalife track's. The whole album is not as proggy as this first track, and the second one here is best at the end. I don't completely love the distorted vocals on it, but they are okay, I guess:
Bachar mar-Khalifé - DistanceBachar mar-Khalifé - Distance
(I wish they would have posted "Democratia.")
― _Rudipherous_, Thursday, 30 December 2010 21:38 (thirteen years ago) link
#1 on my list
(actually it was the fact that the article mentioned her that struck my ire in the 1st place and led me to say 'right on deej'. I wasn't even thinking about illegal downloads/Youtube hits/last.fm at all; I was just annoyed that the author seemed to want to see Boyle and BEP at the top of these lists...)
― Ned Rag & the Evil Olive Gardens (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 30 December 2010 21:38 (thirteen years ago) link
though, if you want to talk about Youtube hits...
― Ned Rag & the Evil Olive Gardens (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 30 December 2010 21:39 (thirteen years ago) link
drugs & rev have already nailed this shut, but since i already typed it out:
I'm pretty sure a lot of casual music fans I have come across though are downloading 9/10ths of the music in their possession.
― Ned Rag & the Evil Olive Gardens (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, December 30, 2010 1:30 PM (42 seconds ago) Bookmark
understanding that anecdotal experience is just that, perhaps meaningless in any larger sense, i have found that most seattle people in my "crowd" (largely white, middle class, indie culture 20-to-40-somethings, passive to avid music fans) buy music. they buy a lot of it. and they're kind of uncomfortable, a lot of them, with the idea of illegally downloading it. i buy a lot of music myself, but i also steal audition it, and i think i'm more rare in that than those among my peers who pay for most everything they listen to. this attitude, and the relative affluence behind it, is part of the culture, my culture.
but i'm kind of old, thus isolated, out of touch with younger fans and music cultures. wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that kids are much more likely to steal music than to buy it, or that things are different in other demographic niches. it's probably true, however, that if thug rap was (still?) crossing over to my peer group, it'd be selling more.
― contenderizer, Thursday, 30 December 2010 21:43 (thirteen years ago) link
i said it before but you really can't underestimate the normal/average people casual/impulse starbucks/best buy/walmart/etc $7.99 ON SALE! purchases that people make. cuz people still buy stuff like that all the time. and thats a big chunk of album sales too, i'll bet. most people don't even walk into chain or non-chain music stores unless they are fanatics. lots of casual folks buy CDs at the drugstore and the convenience store. along with DVDs and large bottles of yoo hoo.
― scott seward, Thursday, 30 December 2010 21:45 (thirteen years ago) link