"But I mean, the ppl buying Eightball/e-40/Mia X/pre-success Mystikal were not KIDS but these more grownup dudes."
my high school exp says otherwise (& before u say anything this isnt a statement about the race of the ppl i went to h.s. with)
rap fans were buying these cds, gajillions of midwest 16 year olds were the ones putting master p in platinum tank chains
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:00 (thirteen years ago) link
i didn't wear band tees or listen to alt-rock so
― The Reverend, Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:01 (thirteen years ago) link
xpost, Then why is Wiz Khalifa playing Bamboozle Festival and not Lloyd Banks?
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:01 (thirteen years ago) link
if i had a band tee in 9th grade it probably would have been like dilated peoples or something
black and white
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:02 (thirteen years ago) link
master p was definitely popular in suburban seattle circa late 90s
― The Reverend, Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:02 (thirteen years ago) link
i think a lot of ppl that buy arcade fire are like those political writers in the sense that they have much greater interests than music and want to really get into about 5-10 records a year & arcade fire are super critically acclaimed & visible on the indie rock scene -- it's not exactly chemically engineering
― BIG SANTA aka the sleighdriver (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:02 (thirteen years ago) link
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, December 28, 2010 2:01 AM (37 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
um, lil wayne is
im not denying that wiz khalifa is popular (although asking why a stoner rapper is popular with white kids, for real?? cypress hill??)
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:03 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah, master p was huge where i lived too! He was on MTV! Like Gucci Mane! Who sells lots of records! What;s your point?
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:03 (thirteen years ago) link
no one outside of new york has cared about lloyd banks in about 5 years?
― The Reverend, Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:04 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=77&threadid=77477
^^^i bet you the dudes in this thread had every 504 boyz cd single
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:04 (thirteen years ago) link
(esp 8ball and mjg! how many copies do you think they sold this year??)
i wish someone had told me there was a new ball and g this year : /
― j., Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:04 (thirteen years ago) link
and wiz has the most popular rap song in the country right now
― The Reverend, Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:05 (thirteen years ago) link
Who sells lots of records! What;s your point?
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, December 28, 2010 2:03 AM (52 seconds ago) Bookmark
im really confused by your point, frankly.
gucci still sells some records, but i think his sales have been hit harder by the current state of the industry than other artists that have older-skewing demos.
you're the one who started taking issue w/ what i was saying dude, not the other way around. Whats YOUR point
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:05 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah what is whiney's point
― BIG SANTA aka the sleighdriver (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:06 (thirteen years ago) link
many xposts
Like we def have ppl filling those Master P/Juvenile roles of MTV-gangstas, no doubt: Gucci, Wayne, Waka
I just don't think the kids in 2010 are as interested in who the new C-Murder is, and are busy checking out a lot of dudes in skinny jeans who talk about space weed instead of our delmar-rap tropes that were popular 15 years ago
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:06 (thirteen years ago) link
ok, but i think you could have picked a better example than fiddy's snow shoveler whose peak of popularity was 5 years ago
― The Reverend, Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:08 (thirteen years ago) link
Whiney's point is that gangsta rap isn't being hit "disproportionately" in sales as deej says. It's decline in ubiquity has more to do with changing cultural trends than a nation of teenagers worshipping Dat Piff
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:09 (thirteen years ago) link
fiddy's snow shoveler
golf clap
― BIG SANTA aka the sleighdriver (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:09 (thirteen years ago) link
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, December 28, 2010 2:09 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
and you're basing this on ...
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:13 (thirteen years ago) link
idk i think there are elements of gangster rap that lend it to there being a downtick in sales
but i also agree that ppl for some reason seem to care more about singing sweater models like kid cudi & drake than gangster rappers -- i'm not sure why that is tho
i guess you could argue that we don't have ground level rappers as good as cash money/no limit days, but i'm not sure i necessarily agree w/ that
― BIG SANTA aka the sleighdriver (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:13 (thirteen years ago) link
i really think this is nonsense. cash money & no limit got as much shit from clueless critics than as gucci & waka do now if not moreso
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:15 (thirteen years ago) link
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, December 28, 2010 2:09 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark
like, why do you think this, other than you want to?
so... any new albums of the year lists we can talk about?
― Shakey Moe Szyslak (Algerian Goalkeeper), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:16 (thirteen years ago) link
i think its fairly self-evident that gangster rap has been hard hit by downloading. there is no indie rock dat piff. dat piff is logging hundreds of thousands of downloads. this is wayyy way bigger than your street corner bootlegger
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:16 (thirteen years ago) link
― Shakey Moe Szyslak (Algerian Goalkeeper), Tuesday, December 28, 2010 2:16 AM (25 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
this conversation is probably more interesting than whatever list is posted next
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:17 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean whiney, gangster rap always had a weird relationship w/ crossover. but like ... master p never got to rap verses with mariah carey. neither did bun b. gucci hit that point by being hugely popular. soulja boy isnt selling a lot of albums but i bet you he has more mentions on world star hip hop than BoB does.
the crowds that these rappers you argue are 'more popular' are crossing over to are coldplay fans. people who still buy records. BoB, Lupe, Drake, Jay-z ... these guys are marketing to your average middle american pop fan
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:20 (thirteen years ago) link
& i mean pop like, U2 audiences. not like, club going fans of 'big pimpin' who got that song up top 40
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:21 (thirteen years ago) link
No, anything is more interesting than what you're talking about endlessly
― Shakey Moe Szyslak (Algerian Goalkeeper), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:21 (thirteen years ago) link
and you're basing it on?
And you know, every time in the 90s someone like Trick Daddy or Mystikal became FAMOUS FAMOUS, it was after years of organic slow-grind. Which, yes, happens faster because of the internet, but still happens. And note the breakthrough internet-to-fame artists are like Drake, BoB, Wiz, Cudi, Nicki, etc. Gucci and Waka are in there too, but like gangsta exceptions that prove the soft-serve rule.
If anything the new No Limit/Cash Money hole of "popular gangsta ish that actually has sales" is all in grinding-in-their-own-world dudes like Tech N9ne and Joe Budden, who still crack iTunes charts all the live long day
there is no indie rock dat piff
http://www.daytrotter.com/ ???
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:21 (thirteen years ago) link
deej is right but it's really the nature of the form right? there's no datpiff of indie rock, but there's also no need for it, because indie rock doesn't operate on the mixtape model the way that rap does
likewise, there aren't indie labels in rap anymore -- there's no no limit or cash money that is monetizing the distribution of a high volume of non-high level releases like there used to be? like, now everyone just floods the net. anything that is put up for sale has to go thru the 8 million hoops that is the major label system. there's no XL or beggars banquet or w/e that puts out cds for the love of it & is willing to operate w/ a thin profit margin
rappers are expected to do all that by themselves, pretty much -- then they get plucked by a major
― BIG SANTA aka the sleighdriver (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:22 (thirteen years ago) link
LOL @ the idea that joe budden is anywhere near as popular as tech n9ne.
dude, you really are disconnected here
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:22 (thirteen years ago) link
I mean, I'll agree with J0rdan. deej and I are really just arguing over chicken vs egg
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:23 (thirteen years ago) link
"and you're basing it on?"
the exact same argument ive repeated in this thread already?
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:23 (thirteen years ago) link
"I'M BASING IT ON MY OWN ARGUMENT... WHAT?!"
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:24 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean, im saying that this softbatch rap isnt actually as popular relative to gucci waka yo gotti soulja boy et al as it seems, that its overrepresented in album sales because the softbatch stuff is aiming at the market that still buys CDs, while the gangster/goon stuff is working thru the mixtape situation jordan described. that doesnt mean that the latter group dont sell CDs ... just that their sales have a huuuuge chunk taken out of them that softbatch dudes dont because theyre skipping that segment of the game entirely to worry about getting joe 12-CD the U2 / Coldplay / Kanye fan
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:25 (thirteen years ago) link
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, December 28, 2010 2:24 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
yes, an argument w/ stated explanations for my reasoning. you're basing the death of gangster rap (and the lol claim that joe budden is the cash money of 2010) on ... sales numbers, i assume?
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:26 (thirteen years ago) link
like, it used to be c-murder could go platinum w/out trying to convince Train fans he was worthwhile. nowadays thats impossible.
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:27 (thirteen years ago) link
we ruined another thread :(
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:28 (thirteen years ago) link
i dunno this seemed like an important / interesting argument to me & is def more interesting than another list celebrating our love of janelle monae, kanye and arcade fire so
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:28 (thirteen years ago) link
http://assets1.pitchforkmedia.com/images/original/51884.rub-stel2.jpg
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:29 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean, think about it -- to use the cash money/no limit label, those were indie labels w/ a figurehead like baby/slim or master p that pretty much monetized the whole operation right? then eventually majors stepped in & got into business w/ them, but that was after a long history of DIY
there is none of that anymore -- think about brick squad -- there is '1017/brick squad records' but it's just an extended arm of warner bros -- if this was 1997 oj da juiceman could've put out an actual album for sale in stores already, because there would've been someone willingly bank rolling that -- right now, there is no way that asylum/warner bros is gonna do that unless somehow oj breaks another song onto the radio w/ no promo
― BIG SANTA aka the sleighdriver (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:29 (thirteen years ago) link
yep
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:30 (thirteen years ago) link
^^^otm.
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:30 (thirteen years ago) link
if this was 1997, Frenchie would have two albums out before xmas
― nog it out with (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:31 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean 'flockaveli' is the perfect example -- that was a mixtape that asylum 'made' into an album once they saw the buzz that waka was building up w/ "o let's do it"/"hard in da paint" -- there was no plans for him to put out an album before that
― BIG SANTA aka the sleighdriver (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:32 (thirteen years ago) link
im glad dudes are still making records tho. that wooh da kid album is firealso whiney did you get the nht boyz yet. its got a bunch of old school throwback shit on it, but the rapping doesnt sound dated (lol)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYVnSJft7w4
not just this but interpolation of 'big mouth' as well
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:34 (thirteen years ago) link
& asylum did nothing to help waka afaik aside from signing gucci
the flipside i think is that the "they make their money!" through shows argument actually works for rappers -- it doesn't pay for the spinto band or w/e to ditch around college towns for $10 a pop while everyone gets their records off what.cd cuz they gotta pay 5 guys & a crew & shit no one is gonna show up anyway
but if webbie shows up at a club in shreveport he's gonna get paid 20k and tons of ppl are gonna show up & he's gonna remain a rich dude even tho he soundscans at 1/5th of the arcade fire
― BIG SANTA aka the sleighdriver (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:35 (thirteen years ago) link
the spinto band is a terrible example -- you should prob substitute Girls or something in there
― BIG SANTA aka the sleighdriver (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 08:36 (thirteen years ago) link