2010 Magazine's Albums Of The Year Thread For Posting Lists and Discussion

fwiw im not arguing about the hot 100 (which iirc has drastically shifted its measurements in the past few years anyway? incorporating downloads etc) just the albums charts

datpiff does count dls -- iirc the top mixtapes have hundreds of thousands of downloads

this of course is further distorted by the fact that youre now talking WORLDWIDE downloads

and even further, because records labels (i.e., guccis) forced datpiff to remove his official mixtapes

xxxxp
Uh, Usher not Isher obv.

And Michael Jackson did well on that first Social 50 Chart despite probably having lots of adults in his audience.

And right, there's that "Ultimate chart" too, which preceded the new one at Billboard.

this of course is further distorted by the fact that youre now talking WORLDWIDE downloads

this feeds into something i'd add to tim's (spot on) post re: who is more likely to illegally download (prob the most perceptive thing i've seen on these demographics tbh) - fans of music that's not legally available in their country

This piece, which ran upon the Ultimate Chart's unveiling in July, says Big Champagne are planning to "chart illegal downloads separately through a service called TopSwaps" (though it also seems to be suggesting they may be incorporated into the Ultimate Chart at some point.)

http://www.fastcompany.com/1672176/move-over-soundscan-music-has-a-new-chart

I think, as usual, the decline in music sales is greatly exaggerated. It's changing, for sure, but as of last year's report, it was still actually on the rise overall: http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Nielsen-Music-2009-Year-End-Press-Release.pdf

We'll see what the new report says next week.

YouTube and fileshares only have any financial impact on an artist if the artist tours much. It also depends on whether the type of audience that artist attracts actually goes to shows, which might vary widely between lesser known r&b, country, hip-hop, indie rock, and metal artists.

It would be cool to see separate reports from all the streaming/subscription services too - Last F.M., Spotify, MOG, Rhapsody, etc. I think Nielson covers 'em, but not separated out.

There are all sorts of variables at work that are difficult to factor in appropriately.

Like, one thing I often see glossed over is that it's not just people like us who are obtaining more music than ever before - it's the "average" 12 cd per year music listener as well, at least to the extent that they are downloading illegally. I think lots of people download what's big / popular / charting / on the radio for the purpose of having their own (in effect) radio playlist (this is particularly obv at parties), whereas before they might have just used the radio for that purpose. So there are lots of people who are now obtaining the most popular music who simply wouldn't have bothered before, in the same way that many people here seem to listen to 5 times as many albums per year now than they could have afforded in the pre-downloading era.

Conversely, the major labels and big artists are probably the most successful at stymying the accessibility and availability of free music on-line.

the decline in music sales is greatly exaggerated. It's changing, for sure, but as of last year's report, it was still actually on the rise overall

Only if you equate buying an individual track with buying an entire album, which is what Nielsen is asking you to do when they claim "overall music sales" were up 2.1% in 2009 at the top of that press release. That's kind of fuzzy math; you might want to take it with a grain of salt. So yeah, "it's changing" -- from people buying albums to people buying singles. Which means -- dollarwise, or in terms of the amount of music purchased -- it's still shrinking fast. Rising sales in digital tracks still haven't come close to making up for album sales' plummet over the past decade, and probably never will.

YouTube and fileshares only have any financial impact on an artist if the artist tours much

Well, they might also conceivably help the artist get licensing deals (in movies, TV shows, ads) if companies are convinced of their popularity, or might help them sell more merchandise. But yeah, touring's more likely where it'd make a difference. Which just goes to show that "being popular" isn't necessarily the same these days as "making money at it."

"YouTube and fileshares only have any financial impact on an artist if the artist tours much"

i dont understand any logic by which this would be true

I think he means positive impact - if someone is downloading the music for free, they might make up for it by paying for a concert ticket.

There are of course other ways you can spend money on artist but concert tickets are by far the most directly lucrative for the artist (short of, like, pledging your inheritance to them etc.)

merchandising at shows must be big too

but i mean look at jay elect, who has released only two tracks you are even able to purchase, and is now making soft drink ads. there are all sorts of income streams, hence labels coming up with the 360 deal.

"eminem, a pop star whose profile was highest a decade ago? its 30 year old stans buying his records now."

dude, not cool, stan totally died.

xp Yeah, I took fastnbulbous's post to mean that popularity on youtube or file-sharing sites could theoretically serve as exposure that might promote artists' live gigs (and the other revenue streams I named). Of course, whether that actually will happen often in real life is another question.

It's basically the same idea as when artists intentionally give away mixtapes for free, in hopes that that'll help bring people to shows (or maybe even lead to actual album sales down the line).

^^^ I think the above is a flawed model on a commercial level (at least in terms of people expecting album sales) - giving stuff away for free early on teaches people to expect it for free later. One of the problems with someone like Gucci is that the average listener can't hope to absorb even all the free mixtapes so there's really almost zero motivation to purchase a subsequent album unless it's got a massive hit on it.

Same problem for dance music DJs and artists - there's so many free sanctioned DJ sets now that the average listener hardly needs to buy anything (or even download illegally) to get their fill.

plus, buying dance music in real life is HARD. hard to find for a lot of people. and buying online can be rilly expensive. sooooo much easier to just get it on your computer. its a godsend for people really.

my wife saw me looking at this thread and told me to share her top three songs of 2010

1. the black keys - "tighten up"
2. massive attack - "paradise circus" (ft. hope sandoval)
3. broken bells - "the ghost inside"

^_____________________^

Ha, I just asked my fiancee what hers are:

1. Sam Amidon ft. Beth Orton, "You Better Mind"
2. Janelle Monae ft. Big Boi, "Tightrope"
3. Sleigh Bells, "Rill Rill"

i'm surprised normallers have ready-made answers to the q

Why do you assume she's a "normaller"?

OK, she is.

But it just so happens she got really obsessed with those three songs in particular this year. I probably could've answered the question for her, though I wouldn't have known the order.

My boyfriend wouldn't have readymade answers but I'm guessing top choices would be "fuck you", "the only girl in the world", "all the lovers" and "dynamite".

all good choices ^^

fyi my wife would probably round out her top 5 with "tightrope" and "cold war"

Also maybe that song by the script about sitting up all night drinking bottles of cheap red wine.

all good choices ^^

sorry :(

what is "all the lovers"?

Kylie

Rising sales in digital tracks still haven't come close to making up for album sales' plummet over the past decade, and probably never will.

Yeah, but album sales from a decade ago were artificially inflated due to the death of the single (i.e. there was nothing else to buy other than the entire album). AFAIC, the relative proportion of album and singles sales are reaching more natural and realistic levels now.

eminem, a pop star whose profile was highest a decade ago? its 30 year old stans buying his records now.

LOL, dude, eminem is like the rap equivalent of like The Offspring or The Red Hot Chili Peps or Metallica or the Doors where his shit is appealing to old nostalgia folks AND huge groups of new young ppl looking for timeless cool things.

it's not a bunch of fat, balding 30 y/os that keep Fuse in business, since they're playing Eminem like all the live long day

Like the record store in my shitty nowhere Florida in-my-world-of-suburban/-ppl hometown like sold more copies of this
http://canadaconnections.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Eminem-Presents-The-Re-Up-2006.jpg
than like anything in 2007 just because it had the word "Eminem" on the cover.

Also this year:

•The Kanye is selling HORRIBLY for them
•No one has ever asked for Yelawolf
•They can't keep Haystak CDs in the store

So obviously somewhere kids are still buying gangsta rap on physical formats

Waka sold ok for the first few weeks, btw

yah but nowhere near the scale of how he would have sold in the late 90s

ive said this before but c-murder went platinum back then

and i dont think u are really contradicting me re: eminem, whiney

Haha ilxor I expected as much. Earnest radio rock-pop really is the final frontier.

my girl basically just listens to old mexican italo sounding ish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud5CTzlQGWU

idgi but its pretty entertaining
i think this stuff she remembers from when she was a kid

she doesnt really listen to new stuff

i shouldnt say thats all she listens to lol. but it gets a lot of play

yeah, i def feel u re: ratios of selling. I'm just not buying this "whole generation that doesn't buy music." Considering a) Some kids are clearly buying Taylor Swift, b) Some kids are clearly buying Arcade Fire and c) Some kids are clearly buying gangsta rap. Like the kids who would be buying C-Murder tapes aren't just saying "oh well" and downloading Tum Tum or whatever, there's a whole bunch of SOMEBODY buying Teflon Don and Flockaveli and 8Ball/MJG and Boosie Bad Ass. I think the real disconnect is that there's less physical copies of rap records (meaning less artists being promoted by labels) than during it's 90s boom years

And whoever said the Korn thing is right. I don't think there's any reason to think rap has a bigger "download-to-purchase" ratio than any other youth-focused genre...

ok, now i disagree

1) there really is a whole lot of people who dont buy music now, incl regular '12 cd people' tim was talking about above,

2) how do you know the age of ppl buying arcade fire -- arent they, like, NPR artists? my dad told me recently hes heard a lot of good music from brooklyn. i know we imagine some fantasyland hipster listening to stuff like that, but its really middle-america friendly and those are the people buying CDs.

3) gangster rap is still selling, dont get me wrong, im arguing that its been disporportionately hit (i mean, why do you think it is that there are fewer physical copies of rap records?? fewer people are buying them). I mean, why is it that jay-z, kanye and drake sell more records? because theyve crossed over to a yuppy late 20s - early 30s & even presidential demographic! i mean, obama saying he listens to jay-z isnt him being down with 'the kids,' its him being a middle-aged yuppie who isnt scared of rap but certainly isnt bumping 'money cash hoes'

4) flockaveli and boosie and 8ball and mjg (esp 8ball and mjg! how many copies do you think they sold this year??) are popular but their sales arent in line with their level of popularity regardless. yes, lots of people are saying "oh well" and downloading tum tum ... and flockaveli. its a tribute to how popular waka is that hes able to move any copies at all in this kind of an industry.

if you think 'the masses' havent figured out how to google .zips of the latest records u are tripping

(the masses of teenagers)

2) how do you know the age of ppl buying arcade fire -- arent they, like, NPR artists? my dad told me recently hes heard a lot of good music from brooklyn. i know we imagine some fantasyland hipster listening to stuff like that, but its really middle-america friendly and those are the people buying CDs.

^^^i should also mention, even the 'young people' who do buy arcade fire, arent those extremely likely to be rockist-ish 'i prefer albums to be concrete statements of art'-types anyway? and therefore dont those fans have a distorting effect on the charts? its not like flockaveli fans have some obsequiousness to the album as a preferred format

The Offspring or The Red Hot Chili Peps or Metallica or the Doors...timeless cool things.

"And whoever said the Korn thing is right. I don't think there's any reason to think rap has a bigger "download-to-purchase" ratio than any other youth-focused genre..."

um, 1st off, i never said it did, i was (jesus can u read my posts dude?) as i said, using rap as an example because its the genre im most familiar with

2nd, i dont get how korn is a 'youth focused genre' at this point -- arent they more in the eminem vein anyway?

The Offspring or The Red Hot Chili Peps or Metallica or the Doors...timeless cool things.

― The Reverend, Tuesday, December 28, 2010 1:54 AM (11 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i see what he means by this. this i kinda agree w/ -- eminem has joined RHCP as middlebrow middleamerican canonical whitebread alt-rock, descendents of led zeppelin & pink floyd & midwestern cornfield pot-smoking album-art populist 'classics,' to end up on classic rock stations in another decade

1. Yeah, I agree with this 100%. But you were making it sound like anyone J0rdan's age and under would look at a CD like it was a spider and throw it to the ground.

2. I mean fine, but then I'll just point to all the Bamboozle metalcore/emocore/scenecore bands that sell just under Arcade Fire numbers because they have high school/college-aged kids but NOT the NPR dads on their side. Like Underoath and shit debuts top 10 with like every record.

3. I mean, cheap/affordable mixtapes existed in the 90s too don't forget. I had kids buying Jam Pony Express DJ tapes from me at the record store all day long (I worked there from like 1996 to 1998). But I mean, the ppl buying Eightball/e-40/Mia X/pre-success Mystikal were not KIDS but these more grownup dudes. I mean, kids (if we're talking 14 to 18 here) generally fuck with pop music. When we were in high school, Bone Thugs and Puffy and Snoop and Goodie Mob was pop music. Now rap-centric pop music is Drake and BoB and Wiz Kaliflower and whatever. It's not that gangsta rap took a beating in sales, it's that gangsta rap isnt as popular as it was in the 90s among the young people demo that major labels target the most aggressively.

but i dont feel like that contradicted by point about 30 year old stans buying his albums xp