2010 Magazine's Albums Of The Year Thread For Posting Lists and Discussion

Okay, forget her as a specific example. Do you really think rap artists are the only ones being illegally downloaded in huge numbers that are out of skew with their charting sales figures? I assure you that isn't the case.

I mean, I guarantee twice as many people illegally downloaded the new Korn CD than those who legally paid for it, even if their fanbase "skews older".

i dont think that, no, but its the area where i feel like i have a pretty solid grasp of the scale of things both historically & currently (although obv to much less of an extent currently)

im sure, like, my chemical romance or w/e their current equivalent is has been hit hard too

Delayed reaction: Matt, you should check out the 3Ball MTY EP which the artists have made available as a free download. New electronic dance sound out of Monterrey and Mexico City, and I am very hooked.

I guess it comes down to this, for me. Correct me if I'm wrong about any of the assumptions I'm making. I feel like you are saying that rap artists are hit harder than most other genres and that their sales figures are significantly out of skew with the number of people illegally downloading their albums. And that you are also saying that, if we were somehow able to wave a magic wand that tabulated illegal downloads, a lot of rap artists would suddenly leap much higher up the charts than a lot of mainstream country/rock/indie artists.

My point is that I think this is pretty much true across the board and when we waved that magic wand, the relative chart spots would remain (with some exceptions, naturally) pretty close to what they are now.

I guess it comes down to this, for me. Correct me if I'm wrong about any of the assumptions I'm making. I feel like you are saying that rap artists are hit harder than most other genres and that their sales figures are significantly out of skew with the number of people illegally downloading their albums. And that you are also saying that, if we were somehow able to wave a magic wand that tabulated illegal downloads, a lot of rap artists would suddenly leap much higher up the charts than a lot of mainstream country/rock/indie artists.

My point is that I think this is pretty much true across the board and when we waved that magic wand, the relative chart spots would remain (with some exceptions, naturally) pretty close to what they are now.

― one pretty obvious guy in the obvious (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, December 27, 2010 3:55 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

ok yeah, this is where we disagree, with the caveat that i hardly think that rap is the only genre impacted or that there arent certainly all kinds of ways w/ which the charts are distorted by the changes wrought by the internet that im sure crosses lots of genre boundaries -- i only use rap as examples because i feel like i have a good handle on what kinds of things have been selling historically vs. how the charts are now. the virtual disappearance of gangster rap from the charts hasnt been reflected w/ its popularity anecdotally for me, and imo its one of many genres where the less-scientific sampling of the charts makes its popularity/influence/impact less noted/covered/noticeable to say critics. i bet this is happening w/ lots of genres, esp youth-oriented ones

i think at the very LEAST sales have been flattened -- so the peaks are much less stark than they used to be -- does that make sense? like kings of leon vs. arcade fire, i bet KOL outsold arcade fire, but i bet the difference would be much more considerable in a pre-downloading world ... that the impact doesnt even necessarily have to be about x being more popular than y, but by how MUCH they are more popular ... there are all kinds of unquantifiable changes like this

Have you guys seen the Ultimate Chart, which purportedly aggregates data from YouTube and MySpace plays, Twitter and Facebook mentions, etc.?

i question the reliability of those stats but that def LOOKS more like a chart id imagine - albeit missing the oldster artists

I think it's not at all controversial to suggest that some genres will have been hit harder than others by illegal downloads.

In particular, genres which are more likely to be followed as genres by their fans online will build up communities of people sharing illegal downloads with one another. Whereas established fan bases for established artists (a) skew older; (b) are more likely to be followed in their capacity as a standalone artist; and (c) command a loyalty amongst that fan base that is more likely to result in a cd being purchased, even if in many cases out of a sense of obligation or guilt.

Moreover certain artists/styles still have a residual package-fetishism thing at work. Young girls who are Taylor Swift fans are more likely to want the picture book that comes with the CD. Dance music fans are the least sentimentalist of all, and to the extent that they fetishize anything it's vinyl - but not packaging etc.

Also CDs being purchased as gifts for friends and family - always a big thing - is now a proportionately much bigger thing than it used to be.

All of which helps to lessen slightly the impact of illegal downloading for some artists rather than others.

It hits all artists massively of course, but even minor variations in the proportional impact will have large effects on the resulting chart positions.

I've kind of lost track of this discussion (went to the post office), but should have mentioned above that there are new metrics being tried out, beyond album sales. For instance, how meaningful it is is anybody's guess at this point probably, but a couple weeks ago Billboard launched an artist chart they call the "Social 50," which they say "will guage artist popularity using a formula blending weekly additions of friends, fans and followers, along with weekly artist page views and weekly song plays on MySpace, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, and iLike. Social music tracking service Next Big Sound gathers data from these sites..."

The first chart was in the December 11 issue; top 20 artists went:

Rihanna
Justin Bieber
Eminem
Lady Gaga
Nicki Minaj
Black Eyed Peas
Katy Perry
Ke$ha
Linkin Park
Shakira
Lil Wayne
Michael Jackson
Taylor Swift
Isher
Christina Grimmie (who apparently covered Nelly's "Just A Dream" on youtube)
Don Omar
Akon
Shinedown
Enrique Iglesias
Beyonce

That same week, the top 20 artist albums, on the album sales chart, were by:

Kanye West
Nicki Minaj
Susan Boyle
Taylor Swift
Jackie Evancho (*O Holy Night*)
Rihanna
Justin Bieber (who actually had albums at both #7 and #21)
My Chemical Romance
Ne-Yo
Kid Rock
Josh Groban
Rascal Flatts
Keith Urban
Ke$ha
Katy Perry
Sugarland
Chris Tomlin (another Christmas album))
Justin Aldean
Lady Antebellum
Bon Jovi

Very different list. So the artists with apparently grown-up audiences (Boyle, Groban, the Christmas ones, Bon Jovi, Kid Rock), and country people in general (Taylor Swift included) didn't do as well on the social networks. Neither did My Chemical Romance. And obviously there are other variables that neither chart is tracking (illegal downloads being one big one, probably -- though I'm pretty sure Big Champagne has done some work in quantifying those over the past few years. But also, for instance, legal singles downloads, magazines purchased with Justin Bieber on the cover, requests to radio stations, live tickets, etc.) And to really show who's most popular, you'd have to come up with a formula that somehow combined all the variables.

yeah but "the social 50" & the chart that jaymc linked too are pretty much imperceptible from the hot 100

even taking into account official social media like youtube, last.fm, myspazz and what have you, the unquantifiable elephant in the room is still common or garden illegal downloading - torrents and, y'know, just straight hitting up filestube.

deej/j0rdan i assume datpiff counts d/ls? do you think a majority of rap mixtape traffic goes through it?

fwiw im not arguing about the hot 100 (which iirc has drastically shifted its measurements in the past few years anyway? incorporating downloads etc) just the albums charts

datpiff does count dls -- iirc the top mixtapes have hundreds of thousands of downloads

this of course is further distorted by the fact that youre now talking WORLDWIDE downloads

and even further, because records labels (i.e., guccis) forced datpiff to remove his official mixtapes

xxxxp
Uh, Usher not Isher obv.

And Michael Jackson did well on that first Social 50 Chart despite probably having lots of adults in his audience.

And right, there's that "Ultimate chart" too, which preceded the new one at Billboard.

this of course is further distorted by the fact that youre now talking WORLDWIDE downloads

this feeds into something i'd add to tim's (spot on) post re: who is more likely to illegally download (prob the most perceptive thing i've seen on these demographics tbh) - fans of music that's not legally available in their country

This piece, which ran upon the Ultimate Chart's unveiling in July, says Big Champagne are planning to "chart illegal downloads separately through a service called TopSwaps" (though it also seems to be suggesting they may be incorporated into the Ultimate Chart at some point.)

http://www.fastcompany.com/1672176/move-over-soundscan-music-has-a-new-chart

I think, as usual, the decline in music sales is greatly exaggerated. It's changing, for sure, but as of last year's report, it was still actually on the rise overall: http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Nielsen-Music-2009-Year-End-Press-Release.pdf

We'll see what the new report says next week.

YouTube and fileshares only have any financial impact on an artist if the artist tours much. It also depends on whether the type of audience that artist attracts actually goes to shows, which might vary widely between lesser known r&b, country, hip-hop, indie rock, and metal artists.

It would be cool to see separate reports from all the streaming/subscription services too - Last F.M., Spotify, MOG, Rhapsody, etc. I think Nielson covers 'em, but not separated out.

There are all sorts of variables at work that are difficult to factor in appropriately.

Like, one thing I often see glossed over is that it's not just people like us who are obtaining more music than ever before - it's the "average" 12 cd per year music listener as well, at least to the extent that they are downloading illegally. I think lots of people download what's big / popular / charting / on the radio for the purpose of having their own (in effect) radio playlist (this is particularly obv at parties), whereas before they might have just used the radio for that purpose. So there are lots of people who are now obtaining the most popular music who simply wouldn't have bothered before, in the same way that many people here seem to listen to 5 times as many albums per year now than they could have afforded in the pre-downloading era.

Conversely, the major labels and big artists are probably the most successful at stymying the accessibility and availability of free music on-line.

the decline in music sales is greatly exaggerated. It's changing, for sure, but as of last year's report, it was still actually on the rise overall

Only if you equate buying an individual track with buying an entire album, which is what Nielsen is asking you to do when they claim "overall music sales" were up 2.1% in 2009 at the top of that press release. That's kind of fuzzy math; you might want to take it with a grain of salt. So yeah, "it's changing" -- from people buying albums to people buying singles. Which means -- dollarwise, or in terms of the amount of music purchased -- it's still shrinking fast. Rising sales in digital tracks still haven't come close to making up for album sales' plummet over the past decade, and probably never will.

YouTube and fileshares only have any financial impact on an artist if the artist tours much

Well, they might also conceivably help the artist get licensing deals (in movies, TV shows, ads) if companies are convinced of their popularity, or might help them sell more merchandise. But yeah, touring's more likely where it'd make a difference. Which just goes to show that "being popular" isn't necessarily the same these days as "making money at it."

"YouTube and fileshares only have any financial impact on an artist if the artist tours much"

i dont understand any logic by which this would be true

I think he means positive impact - if someone is downloading the music for free, they might make up for it by paying for a concert ticket.

There are of course other ways you can spend money on artist but concert tickets are by far the most directly lucrative for the artist (short of, like, pledging your inheritance to them etc.)

merchandising at shows must be big too

but i mean look at jay elect, who has released only two tracks you are even able to purchase, and is now making soft drink ads. there are all sorts of income streams, hence labels coming up with the 360 deal.

"eminem, a pop star whose profile was highest a decade ago? its 30 year old stans buying his records now."

dude, not cool, stan totally died.

xp Yeah, I took fastnbulbous's post to mean that popularity on youtube or file-sharing sites could theoretically serve as exposure that might promote artists' live gigs (and the other revenue streams I named). Of course, whether that actually will happen often in real life is another question.

It's basically the same idea as when artists intentionally give away mixtapes for free, in hopes that that'll help bring people to shows (or maybe even lead to actual album sales down the line).

^^^ I think the above is a flawed model on a commercial level (at least in terms of people expecting album sales) - giving stuff away for free early on teaches people to expect it for free later. One of the problems with someone like Gucci is that the average listener can't hope to absorb even all the free mixtapes so there's really almost zero motivation to purchase a subsequent album unless it's got a massive hit on it.

Same problem for dance music DJs and artists - there's so many free sanctioned DJ sets now that the average listener hardly needs to buy anything (or even download illegally) to get their fill.

plus, buying dance music in real life is HARD. hard to find for a lot of people. and buying online can be rilly expensive. sooooo much easier to just get it on your computer. its a godsend for people really.

my wife saw me looking at this thread and told me to share her top three songs of 2010

1. the black keys - "tighten up"
2. massive attack - "paradise circus" (ft. hope sandoval)
3. broken bells - "the ghost inside"

^_____________________^

Ha, I just asked my fiancee what hers are:

1. Sam Amidon ft. Beth Orton, "You Better Mind"
2. Janelle Monae ft. Big Boi, "Tightrope"
3. Sleigh Bells, "Rill Rill"

i'm surprised normallers have ready-made answers to the q

Why do you assume she's a "normaller"?

OK, she is.

But it just so happens she got really obsessed with those three songs in particular this year. I probably could've answered the question for her, though I wouldn't have known the order.

My boyfriend wouldn't have readymade answers but I'm guessing top choices would be "fuck you", "the only girl in the world", "all the lovers" and "dynamite".

all good choices ^^

fyi my wife would probably round out her top 5 with "tightrope" and "cold war"

Also maybe that song by the script about sitting up all night drinking bottles of cheap red wine.

all good choices ^^

sorry :(

what is "all the lovers"?

Kylie

Rising sales in digital tracks still haven't come close to making up for album sales' plummet over the past decade, and probably never will.

Yeah, but album sales from a decade ago were artificially inflated due to the death of the single (i.e. there was nothing else to buy other than the entire album). AFAIC, the relative proportion of album and singles sales are reaching more natural and realistic levels now.

eminem, a pop star whose profile was highest a decade ago? its 30 year old stans buying his records now.

LOL, dude, eminem is like the rap equivalent of like The Offspring or The Red Hot Chili Peps or Metallica or the Doors where his shit is appealing to old nostalgia folks AND huge groups of new young ppl looking for timeless cool things.

it's not a bunch of fat, balding 30 y/os that keep Fuse in business, since they're playing Eminem like all the live long day

Like the record store in my shitty nowhere Florida in-my-world-of-suburban/-ppl hometown like sold more copies of this
http://canadaconnections.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Eminem-Presents-The-Re-Up-2006.jpg
than like anything in 2007 just because it had the word "Eminem" on the cover.

Also this year:

•The Kanye is selling HORRIBLY for them
•No one has ever asked for Yelawolf
•They can't keep Haystak CDs in the store

So obviously somewhere kids are still buying gangsta rap on physical formats

Waka sold ok for the first few weeks, btw

yah but nowhere near the scale of how he would have sold in the late 90s

ive said this before but c-murder went platinum back then