Was/Is Morrissey Racist?

h) Dunno, don't care about him much.

i believe in this little thing called "personal responsibility". people don't seem to care about it too much these days, they seem to think that video games and pop stars control the minds of the children from secret lairs

-- swinburningforyou, Wednesday, 28 November 2007 16:12 (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Absolutely.

maybe el moz should take some "personal responsiblity" toward his audience of vulnerable young white guys?

Look, all he's saying is that foreigners are destroying British culture. If some of his fans are foolish enough to believe that and to join or vote for a political party with the same views, that's hardly Morrissey's fault.

Maybe they should have him on at the Oxford Union.

Morrissey just sounds like any unthinking middle-aged expat anywhere. Pining for the childhood home that no longer exists. The racism, if it's there, is tangential rather than fundamental.

Zelda is OTM but that kind of doesn't have anything to do with the paternalistic nightmarishness of "Bengali in Platforms", a song that is 20 years old now.

Morrissey the Martin Amis of Indieland

Gotta love the 'there's too many immigrants here and it's damaging the national identity, so I'm emigrating' rationale. He'd rather live in another country where the national identity remains strong (for better or worse and depending on where you are in relation to that) than live in a country where it's constantly in question. Not actually the behaviour of a typical racist/xenophobe/bigot/whatever. It's too bad that despite inviting scrutiny he doesn't seem able to articulate well the cons of a progressive society that is culturally diverse but not particularly well integrated).

because LA is so racially and culturally homogenous.

Come on, s1ocki; we all watch "The Hills".

Hahahah

Besides, doesn't the interview say he lives in Italy now?

yeah I was talking about Italy

isn't that near LA?

speaking of italy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH4lWMulZ34

"Oh you live in Venice now?"

x-post: UH

the other point here is that we aren't talking about a Morrissey given editorial to NME regarding his views on race. I repeat, the interviewer asked the questions, and Moz took the bait.

And I'm not saying that Moz is some sort of patsy either. Its just that all of these issues are so charged that the minute they come up people stop listening and start getting out their soap boxes.

You can either let it go without comment and look like you're tacitly condoning it OR you can call him out and sell a shedload more copies in the process.

ugh, its not like it was some resolution on the senate floor. Not having strong feelings about a pop singer's interview does not equal political apathy or facist sympathy.

and Moz isn't a racist. lock thread.

moz IS a racist -- keep thread open.

in your FACE.

Moz IS gay.
Another option!

maybe el moz should take some "personal responsiblity" toward his audience of vulnerable young white guys?

I'm not sure if there is anything resembling a thought here. I could get mad, but then I realize its the internet, where we take being "irreverent" to mean you are intelligent, as long as you don't offend anyone.

Come on, racists don't make music swinburningforyou likes, that'd be stupid.

please don't put me in some absurd situation where I have to list off musicians/writers whose work I enjoy that are racist. thats not what this is about and you know it.

lol u like skrewdriver

Enoch Powell's Funk Allstars

i'd like to hear a morrissey oi record

First of the Hitler Youth to Die

Stormtroopers of the World, Unite and Take Over

how about "The world is full of crashing bores"

As the years pass, "Bengali in Platforms" makes Morrissey sound increasingly pathetic, and the title character seem increasingly cool. "Life is hard enough when you belong here" for poor dear Morrissey, maybe, but it's probably safe to assume the Bengali in question is not a shut-in who lives with his mother* and is scared of sex and gets depressed and nightclubs and whatnot ("LOL indie," etc.) -- he's got nice shoes and has immigrated and is probably pretty happy with how things are going for him.

* Actually okay he might well live with his mother, but not JUST his mother

I.e. he is a bad target for Morrissey to project his own mopiness onto

Also, these sort of "I have nothing against people from different countries, but cultures shouldn't mix" statements are exactly the same rhetoric as with most racist European politicians and parties. The idea of biologically inferior "races" has become generally passe, but often the seemingly more neutral word "culture" has simply replaced the word "race", even though the basic discourse hasn't changed that much.

Would you agree then that people who criticize "Zionists" are really just the new antisemites? They're making it a cultural thing, and not a racial issue now, I guess (those tricksters!).

Same thing with Marxist complaints against Jews/usurers/capitalists. They change the lingo, but the message remains the same! I knew all socialist rhetoric was really a vestige of Dark Ages anti-Antisemitism!

Do you see where your original dismissive attitude leads when applied elsewhere?

he's just jealous

x-post

Morrissey is an old man overromanticising the hovels of his youth and the days where "British Culture" was less fractured and there was a vague sense of "national identity".

If you pick up the NME and read the whole article, rather than take the middle chunk out of context, Morrissey makes several point clear...essentially admitting it's the shock of the relative influx that is intially startling, but that immigration itself is not a bad thing. He is bemoaning the loss of his childhood and his glory days, essentially. The Britain that The Smiths characterised and put on their sleeves, that they claimed sovereignty, no longer exists in Moz's mind.

He's scared of growing old, basically.

Although the guy could've blamed globalisation and capitalism generally to a greater degree. Which was his mistake. But I guess he's some dumb pop singer, not a politician.

You can practically see Conor McFartknocker's semen on the pages.

Apologies for the atrocious grammar of that post, I'm tired and ill and my wee tastes funny.

As the years pass, "Bengali in Platforms" makes Morrissey sound increasingly pathetic, and the title character seem increasingly cool. "Life is hard enough when you belong here" for poor dear Morrissey, maybe, but it's probably safe to assume the Bengali in question is not a shut-in who lives with his mother* and is scared of sex and gets depressed and nightclubs and whatnot ("LOL indie," etc.) -- he's got nice shoes and has immigrated and is probably pretty happy with how things are going for him.

I couldn't agree more.

The Britain that The Smiths characterised and put on their sleeves, that they claimed sovereignty, no longer exists in Moz's mind.

Since I'm not English, I have to claim some ignorance on the subject, but hasn't a big issue in Britan been its "Americanization" over the past few decades? I seem to remember the guy from Massive Attack complaining about it in the Live Forever movie. The point being, is The Smiths' England really still there? (honest question)

it was never there. national identities are figments.

but hasn't a big issue in Britan been its "Americanization" over the past few decades?

No it hasn't. Good work on switching between the terms "England" and "Britain" as well, because they're actually interchangable phrases.

Ugh. I know they aren't. I'm sure you've never made a mistake Dom.

No it hasn't. Good work on switching between the terms "England" and "Britain" as well, because they're actually interchangable phrases.

It hasn't? Americanisation/globalisation had been a big issue in the UK until it won.

Cunga, that Zionism metaphor doesn't make sense at all: most any way you define it, Zionism is itself an ideology that believes in (a) the unmixed maintenance of a certain cultural/ethnic group, and (b) the idea that such a group might "belong" in a particular place or "homeland"

Dom Passantino has literally never made a mistake, and everyone should know that.

I didn't get the zionism thing either, that was a real non-sequitur.

(says the anti-zionist Jew)

Dom Passantino has literally never made a mistake, and everyone should know that.

To be fair the English/British thing has history, and is frequently done as a casual error by people who do know better. It used to be acceptable use too, back in the day.

Dom Passantino is infallible.

Dom Popentino

A useful mix of Morrissey quotes/paraphrases from the NME interview:

"I find racism very silly..it's beyond reason"

"England is not what it was...we've lost so much"

"It's not true that the reason I wouldn't wish to live in England is the immigration explosion"

"The British identity (is/was) very attractive...I grew up into it, and I find it quaint and amusing. But (that) is a memory now"

To the question 'Isn't immigration enriching rather than diluting the British identity?'

"It does in a way, and it's nice in its way. But you have to say goodbye to the Britain that you once knew"

"The change in England is so rapid compared to the change in any other country"

"I'm not saying it's a terrible thing, i'm saying it's a reality and to many people it's shocking".

"But there's a beauty in the passing
In the passage of time..."

O RLY

The change in England is so rapid compared to the change in any other country

this is ridiculous

but other than that I have to agree with Dom, these are the words of a virulent racist who must be silenced...

Current percentage of the population of Manchester who are immigrants: 15%.

This is about more than just immigration, really. A country's capital will always attract a lot of multinational company executives, more tourists than most of the rest of the country, lots of diplomats etc etc.

I see the same thing in Oslo too, which to me is a nice thing because I have never been much of a fan of typical Norwegian culture anyway.

too much rhythm, huh