Britpop : Time For Reevaluation?

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....bwahahahahahaha!

― Vagina Wolf, Friday, 23 July 2004 00:54 (twenty-one years ago)

this thread is giving me a rash

― purple patch (electricsound), Friday, 23 July 2004 01:23 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

Is it only two years since everyone started going on about Britpop all over again?

― N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 07:40 (twenty years ago)

"The whole of Rolling Stone discourse is predicated on the baby-boomer myth that something great-but-unsustainable happened in the 60s. Everything is fitted to that. It justifies the lifestyles of the editors and businesspersonss who made their pile exploiting that culture. Rock music is reduced to an adolescent outburst that "must" succumb to capitalist business-as-usual" (Ben Watson).

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 12 August 2005 07:55 (twenty years ago)

isn't ben watson that menk guy who likes zappa?

― N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 08:18 (twenty years ago)

Ben Watson's a charming chap and I'm doing a conference with him next week so trying it is inadvisable.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 12 August 2005 08:19 (twenty years ago)

He's right, though, isn't he? Keeping the corpse of Britpop unburied just to subsidise John "Wurzel" Harris' lifestyle.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 12 August 2005 08:20 (twenty years ago)

he said some stupid shit about reynolds' book (which i don't even *like* that much). i don't know, i can't be bothered to disinter why watson put quote-marks around 'must', or why it is 'myth' that x happened in the '60s. clearly, this is no myth as generally construed; but everything for BW is myth unless it conforms to his own narrow interpretation of cultural politics.

― N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 08:24 (twenty years ago)

In that review he's wrong about Frankie/Horn/Morley/ZTT and also about Dexy's, but I pretty much agree with what he says about the book in general - where's the Simon in that meticulous history? Where's the involvement? Even when there's no involvement a good historian should be able to conjure up an environment where you can imagine them being in the middle of it (e.g. DT's Rosebud fantasia - and DT's a zillion times better at expressing how His Youth comes into the story). I just found it dull, non-inflammatory; sorry SR but critical probity must take precedence over friendship.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 12 August 2005 08:30 (twenty years ago)

though of course the deployment of Adorno is so off the mark that...

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 12 August 2005 08:31 (twenty years ago)

as i say, i managed to like the review less than the book, and it even made me like the book a bit more (for me it's not all bad because it isn't common knowledge as it probably is for you).

the tone seemed weirdly spiteful, beyond all other considerations.

― N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 08:35 (twenty years ago)

Pardon my ignorance but who is John "Wurzel" Harris?

Is it the geyser who played guitar for Motorhead?

If so, he looks to me as if the requirements of his lifestyle actually require extremely substantial subsidy.

http://www.nolifetilmetal.com/images/motorhead_wurzel.jpg

Albeit briefly.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 12 August 2005 08:35 (twenty years ago)

No it is John Harris the music journalist currently manfully trying to branch out in his career. However, he is hampered by the fact that he resembles a Wurzel. If you look at him on Newsnight Review you'll see what I mean. They should put a bucket on his head so that children staying up late as a special treat aren't made unnecessarily upset.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 12 August 2005 08:37 (twenty years ago)

Now, now.

I clicked on the link, but I couldn't be arsed to read the article, I'm afraid.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 12 August 2005 08:39 (twenty years ago)

the morley/harris beef on NNR makes it hard to watch, but they clearly hate each other. i have a soft spot for harris, although he's not really an inspirational force as a writer. i grew up on 'select' (and, indeed, britpop).

haha, pash, i didn't actually read it either!

― N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 08:40 (twenty years ago)

I did read Harris' britpop book a while ago, and I thought it was very good, but do I need to read more about it? eh...

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 12 August 2005 08:42 (twenty years ago)

that ben w quote is great

― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 12 August 2005 08:42 (twenty years ago)

I've never previously considered Newsnight Review as a potential source of recommendations for the sort of music I like....

What did they make of the latest Sleater-Kinney album?

(xxxx-post)

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 12 August 2005 08:43 (twenty years ago)

they only do two albums a year, by u2 and whatever else coffee table mercury type stuff comes up (kano, MIA, that kind of thing).

― N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 08:46 (twenty years ago)

OK I just did read it, I should do some work actually.

I can't really think of anything to say about it, though.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 12 August 2005 08:48 (twenty years ago)

Of the latest Sleater-Kinney album, Natasha Walter questioned its cultural relevance in the post-feminist milieu of babies and royalty cheques.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 12 August 2005 08:48 (twenty years ago)

John Harris, The guy who directed Live Forever and the drummer from dodgy rite now on Radio 5.

Hahahahahaha

The drummer from dodgy just complained about being grouped in with Menswear and Sleeper. Hahahahahaha

― Jamie T Smith (Jamie T Smith), Friday, 12 August 2005 08:52 (twenty years ago)

'Do you think they paved the way for the Kaiser Chiefs?'

Hahahahahaha

― Jamie T Smith (Jamie T Smith), Friday, 12 August 2005 08:52 (twenty years ago)

(x-post w/r/2 dodgy)

oof, haha.

that athlete single, as mentioned at the end of the harris piece, ir really fucking bad.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 12 August 2005 08:53 (twenty years ago)

Isn't the drummer from Dodgy now (also?) the singer from Dodgy?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 12 August 2005 08:53 (twenty years ago)

athlete are fucking dire.

― N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 08:54 (twenty years ago)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive

'At the end of the day it's just whether it was good music'

The drummer from dodgy is a rockist!

― Jamie T Smith (Jamie T Smith), Friday, 12 August 2005 08:54 (twenty years ago)

"Of the latest Sleater-Kinney album, Natasha Walter questioned its cultural relevance in the post-feminist milieu of babies and royalty cheques."

I thought that myself.

Well, that and the fact that the EQ's absolutely dreadful.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 12 August 2005 08:55 (twenty years ago)

I have to say that, in my extensive experience of scanning the music sections of South London charity shops, Dodgy are nearly always grouped in with Menswear and Sleeper.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 12 August 2005 08:55 (twenty years ago)

'good enough', and the video for same, was about as britpop as it fucking gets.

― N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 08:58 (twenty years ago)

Does "10p or less" actually count as a music category 'though?

(x-post)

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 12 August 2005 08:59 (twenty years ago)

I haven't gone back into the ancient history of the thread up above, just heard the hilarity on the radio and thought I'd post, but the last word on it all, I think belongs to Edwyn Collins.

From the youngsters who've just learned to shave
to the oldsters raving on their graves
it's the same old story, England's glory,
claiming back the union jack, my arse!

― Jamie T Smith (Jamie T Smith), Friday, 12 August 2005 08:59 (twenty years ago)

Actually I was always quite fond of Dodgy.

Far more so that I was of Menswear or Sleeper anyway.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 12 August 2005 09:00 (twenty years ago)

This is one of the priceless threads of ilm, actually. I always 'ave a larf reading through it when it pops up to the top again.

x-post - the shame of admitting it, but that "water under the bridge" tune they did was pretty nice IIRC.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 12 August 2005 09:01 (twenty years ago)

dodgy had that acid jazz connection stew.

― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 12 August 2005 09:03 (twenty years ago)

Tuesday 16th August 2005 - Britpop night on BBC4:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/listings/index.shtml?day=tuesday&service_id=4544

8:30 pm The Britpop Story

John Harris charts the rise of Britpop, its brief romance with New Labour, the emergence of the 'new lad' culture, and the legacy Britpop has left behind.

9:00 pm Britpop Now

Damon Albarn presents a compilation of live performances from Britpop acts originally recorded on 16 August 1995, including Blur, Supergrass, Elastica and Menswear.

9:45 pm Live Forever: Storyville

Live Forever charts the sounds that defined the real mood of the 90s, offering an alternative history of the period and a more intriguing vision of Britain and its music. Strong language. [S]

11:10 pm Pulp: No Sleep Till Sheffield

In 1995, the BBC followed Jarvis Cocker and Pulp as they charmed their way around Britain, having finally become popular after many years of trying.

11:45 pm The Britpop Story

John Harris charts the rise of Britpop, its brief romance with New Labour, the emergence of the 'new lad' culture, and the legacy Britpop has left behind.

12:15 am Later: Stanley Road Revisited

Ten years on, Paul Weller reflects on what he considers the high point of his solo career, the million-selling Stanley Road album. Strong language. [S].

― koogs (koogs), Friday, 12 August 2005 09:19 (twenty years ago)

wow. reading this whole thread again. it's just glorious.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 12 August 2005 10:00 (twenty years ago)

Live Forever charts the sounds that defined the real mood of the 90s, offering an alternative history of the period and a more intriguing vision of Britain and its music.

Once again They seem to have mistaken 'Live Forever' for the Channel 4 docu 'A London Sumting Dis'

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 12 August 2005 10:02 (twenty years ago)

"Live Forever charts the sounds that defined the real mood of the 90s, offering an alternative history of the period and a more intriguing vision of Britain and its music."
Once again They seem to have mistaken 'Live Forever' for the Channel 4 docu 'A London Sumting Dis'

-- Sociah T Azzahole (stevem7...), August 12th, 2005.

well, there is no 'defining' sound. i reckon pop house and rnb outsold both britpop and the often-touted better music we Should All Have Been Listening To (jungle, dnb, trip hop, etc etc). it's wrong to say any musical form is a 'more valid' index of 'where britain's at' than another.
and at least britpop did have a major public following.

― N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 10:12 (twenty years ago)

it's wrong to say any musical form is a 'more valid' index of 'where britain's at' than another.

yep, and that's what Britpop Night will be doing.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 12 August 2005 10:13 (twenty years ago)

i don't think it will. the doc 'live forever' doesn't -- it at least acknowledges trip hop. and methinks damon albarn will be pissing on his old chips here too.

― N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 10:19 (twenty years ago)

Yes, it acknowledges trip hop, i.e. three second commentary of "therewasalsomassiveattackportisheadtrickygoldie" over a shot of a motorway at night how original.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 12 August 2005 10:29 (twenty years ago)

i like britpop

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 12 August 2005 10:30 (twenty years ago)

marcello -- it is a film about britpop. but it doesn't say britpop was the only show in town. if it went into detail on trip hop, it wouldn't be a film about britpop. if it ignored trip hop altogether, there would be a stronger case against it.

― N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 10:33 (twenty years ago)

it was so fucking ridiculous. it was so fucking ridiculous.

such a banal choice. blur vs oasis. rank piss vs shit.

― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 12 August 2005 10:35 (twenty years ago)

i kind of think many of the more vocal haters wish it was 'alex reece vs goldie' on the front pages.

― N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 10:36 (twenty years ago)

trip hop/bristol was/is far more deserving of a film about it than britpop.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 12 August 2005 10:37 (twenty years ago)

that's another issue, though.

― N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 10:39 (twenty years ago)

although a nonfawning/unUNcUTty type film that focussed on HOW SHIT it was and HOW HYPED it was might be good

― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 12 August 2005 10:41 (twenty years ago)

if you're only going to give trip hop three gratuitous token seconds then you might as well not bother at all. they should have called it: "britpop - any colour as long as it's white."

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 12 August 2005 10:43 (twenty years ago)

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