opeth C or D

listened to Brave Murder Days on the airplane today for, like, the tenth time this year - Christ but Katatonia was well beyond great in those days. I don't think Opeth ever did anything as good as that early Katatonia stuff.

i agree with a. begrand about 'the great cold distance'. and contrary to what a lot of people think about it being 'alternative rock', it's actually a pretty HEAVY record. i think it's just got the edge over 'last fair deal gone down' which is more rock-based, with a pervading cure influence (see: intro to 'tonight's music')

and i think 'still life' is much more developed and interesting that early katatonia, which i nevertheless still like a lot. :)

Morningrise is the only Opeth I like as much as early Katatonia. Morningrise and Damnation/Deliverence might be all I need from the band. Or the only ones I want to play anyway.

i just want a new October Tide album. Or a new Diabolical Masquerade album.

this is cool info too about the Diabolical Masquerade albums:

ENTIRE BACK CATALOGUE TO BE RE-ISSUED

Peaceville records has bought the rights to the back catalogue previously released under Avantgarde and Adipocere records and will re-master and re-issue each title in the near future. Up first on November 6 is Nightwork with bonus track called Cryztalline Fiendz (previously only available on the Nightwork LP version, ltd to 500 copies) now entirely remixed and orchestrated. The digipak will also feature liner notes + different photos.

~BlaKKheim

though i think i'm only missing the first one.

any katatonia fans who have never heard the october tide albums need to beg borrow or steal copies:

http://www.myspace.com/octobertideband

(i like them just as much as prime katatonia)

yeah, they're pretty mega - scott is correct. check it out

wondering what opeth's next one is going to sound like (yes, i still care)

Just watched Lamentations. I think it's probably better (for me, anyway) to approach Opeth as if they are a prog band rather than a metal band.

This means, of course, approaching them in a cape.

Right, that does it. I only have 4 of their albums, my bro has the rest. *gets copying*

the first four albums are definitely classic, especially Orchid, Morningrise, and STill Life (I really like My Arms Your Hearse too)

I was bored by Blackwater Park and haven't heard the rest.

I have seen Opeth 5 times. I am Agalloch's booking agent. I have never heard Katatonia. Where the hell do I start?

OK now I have all the Opeth albums, but no real inclination to listen to them. I think Siegbran has a point when he says that they don't really stretch themselves towards dissonance or unusual sounds. It's generally either heavy-ish melodic metal or folkiness, with little in between. Their very best songs make this not matter, but there's no way I can love this stuff as much as the majority of new-era black metal I've heard so far.

"The Baying Of The Hounds", "The Moor" or "The Drapery Falls" are as good a place to start as any. Their best folky section IMO is the bit between about 2 and 5 minutes in "Blackwater Park". That bit actually chills me slightly.

"Their very best songs make this not matter, but there's no way I can love this stuff as much as the majority of new-era black metal I've heard so far."

Why compare it to this (not that you have with this sentence, but it sounds like you have compared them or are associating the two in some way)?

"...they don't really stretch themselves towards dissonance or unusual sounds"

Unusual sounds? I agree. Dissonance? They use dissonance all the time!

Dissonance is perhaps too general. I'm talking about what many would term 'noise', clashing genuinely obtuse amelodic sounds in order to disorientate and challenge the listener. Too much of Opeth is, I believe, comfortable in its tried-and-trusted melodicism. The dude's cookie-monster vocals don't count!

My comparison is perhaps a fallacy, based on my relatively recent pledge to 'get into metal'. I've known about Opeth a lot longer than I've known about all this wonderful stuff I've only recently found out about, and it's natural to compare the two. As you say, treating Opeth as a prog band may bear more fruit, and may prevent me from abandoning them entirely.

Certainly clean production is a key ingredient in Opeth's studio work. It was the first hurdle I had to get over before beginning to love them.

But I agree that there's plenty of dissonance in say the title track on Deliverance.

Just understand that they were a studio band for years and years, almost never playing live at all until Blackwater Park. And as for the noise... they are really technically advanced players. They don't want to be Darkthrone.

These guys are by far the best at what they do.

My only gripes about Opeth are:

1) The production on the first 3 albums is sub-par
2) The first song on Ghost Reveries has a Tool-ish riff
3) Their incredible drummer has left the building

Otherwise, I love love love Opeth.

"I have never heard Katatonia. Where the hell do I start?"

brave murder day. then discouraged ones. then continue forward if you like that stuff.

Even Though Katatonia Are One Of My Very Favorite Rock & Roll Bands I Do Have A Complaint

Hmm. Well my comments on this thread amount to a battle within myself, really. I want to have absorbed and appreciated their entire output, but I'm not sure whether I can motivate myself to go through the process. Some of what I've heard demonstrates inspired songwriting and breathtaking musicianship, but equally a lot merges into an indistinct soup of Nordic handwringing. If you could suggest a couple of songs from each album to concentrate upon, I'd be grateful!

"Bleak Harvest", "Windowpane", "Deliverance", "Baying of the Hounds" are a few of my favorite tracks from the last 4 albums respectively.

Haha, "Baying of the Hounds" is my favourite Opeth song full stop (at this point)!

i think this is my favorite metal album:

http://static.metal-archives.com/images/4/7/4/474.jpg

just sayin' (although the dude from opeth does guest on it).

A friend of mine criticized Lamentations for not containing enough chaos (haw), but, as I said before, I think this is an innapropriate way to approach a band that is essentially a prog band anymore (ok, there are the occasional deathy vox, but what else, especially anymore?). I appreciate Lamentations as a musical performance, not in the same way that I would appreciate, say, Bad Brains Live at CBGB's (as a show). It seems like a common criticism (from metal fans) of Opeth is exactly that: not enough chaos (dissonance, heaviness, etc). This isn't really a criticism in itself, though. It's just about frustrated expectations.

*inappropriate, ugh

Frustrated expectations, yes, but I can't help listening to this stuff and sometimes really wishing they'd throw in a really awesome techno breakdown or noisescape or whatever, just to heighten the sense of progression, to give the ear more things to play off one another.

See, I can't imagine any of that in Opeth's music. There is a lot of stuff going on in there as it is!

other albums i liked in high school:

http://www.icedearth.com/discography/c_burntofferings_400.jpg

http://fsmat.at/%7Eatrax/Florilegium/Paradise-Lost_Draconian-Times_cover.jpg

http://www.metal-rules.com/zine/images/stories/interviews/amorphis/amorphis-elegy.jpg

(lj this one has a silly techno break in one song)

Yeah, Roxy, there's a lot, but I dunno, a lot of the loud parts and a lot of the folky parts sound similar to one another, even if they're devilishly complex or immaculately juxtaposed or whatever.

Look, I'll shut up and listen to the yet-unheard albums, see if anything changes. :)

Haha, I only threw techno breaks in as an example of contrast, of surprise. I can't imagine many bands pulling it off *in actuality* without it sounding a teeny bit incongruent/silly.

JGO:

Perhaps you should start with the recent live album, The Roundhouse Tapes, which is a fairly career-spanning 2CD set.

...but I have all 8 studio albums right here on my computer!

*checks brother's collection*

Haha, he's got the Roundhouse Tapes AND Live in Toronto...

OK fuck I stick Blackwater Park (live) on and the idiot crowd are CLAPPING their way through the REALLY CREEPY, MOVING, BEAUTIFUL FOLKY BIT, aaaaargh

I agree that Still Life is their masterpiece.

Ghost Reveries is the only one I have, it leaned a bit too much toward the folky/soft for my taste. Love the first track!

So Still Life or Blackwater Park next?

so you agree with me, roxymuzak. yay!

big hoos, opt for 'still life' next, but really you can't go wrong with 'blackwater park' either, since it's fantastic as well, and perhaps the acknowledged fan favourite.

louis, i can imagine that slogging through their entire catalogue in one go is a pretty full-on task. there is just so much to take on board - the evolution of the band, the path that it has taken to get where it is today, is actually one of the more intriguing aspects of the band. also, there's so much to discover in opeth's music, a lot of which will only become apparent after several listens. 'the moor', as you identified somewhere, is one of the defining moments though.

nate, i really like the production on 'morningrise' :) often sounds like the tunes are hiding beneath layers of frost, but the music and sound does an impeccable job of encapsulating the atmosphere of the classic cover art.

I have listened a bit to "Blackwater Park" as they have been sort of recommended to me as the metal band I could like.

And, I mean, parts of it is really great. Some really nice atmospheric arrangements, great playing, great compositions. Some of the track I really like.

But then, in other parts of the record, they have to drag the entire thing down with that unbearable growling and way exaggerated über-heavy marshall riffs that make me scream "Why???" Why do they have to ruin an otherwise good record with those unlistenable elements?

Hey, Geir, you might like their acoustic album "Damnation".

Oops, sorry, not exactly acoustic - but from what I've read, it's minus the growling and heavy riffs.

Yeah, Geir, you would like Damnation a lot, and I think there are gonna be a lot of things you'll like about the upcoming album.

I definitely haven't written off the first 3... but at this point I own so much Opeth. It's hard to feel like I'm missing anything. Anticipating the new album though!

Well, the parts I liked sounded kind of like Porcupine Tree - a band that is obviously not metal but I know they still have several metal fans. And Opeth without the obvious metal elements would be really good. I checked out that album because it is sort of considered their "classic", but maybe I should have a listen to the others too. Except they will then be their answers to "The Elder" and "Their Majesties Satanic Request", I suspect: "Unrepresentative" albums that I like just because they sound atypical of the act's usual style.

'blackwater park', the record is largely phenomenal. 'bleak' is perhaps the best opeth track out there, and then you have undeniable classics like 'the drapery falls' (awesome live incidentally) and 'the leper affinity'. but i've never been sold as much on the second half of the record. the title track is an engaging riff-monster, but 'dirge for november' (one of the least inspired opeth tunes ever) and 'funeral portrait' are pretty unimpressive to me when weighed up against the band's best material.

anticipating 'watershed' along with everybody else!

just sat through 'black rose immortal'. it's majestic all the way through, but doesn't have much of a cohesive feel to it. sort of feels like a pastiche of a whole bunch of individual passages. that's sort of cool in a way - makes the experience of listening to it feel like an expression of distinctly different moods, kind of like the ballet.

i've actually been on a bit of a 'morningrise' kick recently. i used to play this one a few times a day back in around 1998. i haven't revisited it in a serious way in quite a while. pretty fantastic record.

yeah - other bands who on the surface seemed super-harsh turned out to be up to at least as much interesting stuff as Opeth. Especially Katatonia (who have also jumped the shark tho), the Brave Murder Days comp was kinda my "why would I listen to Opeth when this is sorta aiming for the same mood only hitting it so much harder and deeper" moment - Opeth starts to seem like the whitewashed version of something a lot more complex & interesting

If the "Brave Murder Days comp" is the same as the Brave Murder Day album (or overlaps it), then I have finally gotten around to listening to this. I ahve to say though, I don't find the Katatonia to be "a lot more complex & interesting" - in fact, the opposite. Not that the Katatonia is bad. I like it and will continue to listen to it, but it seems a bit apples & oranges to compare it to Opeth, despite having Akerfeldt's vocals on it. The Katatonia is a lot more goth, even a bit shoegazer - where Opeth is more prog & folk. Katatonia is a bit droney - not as much dynamic and structural varation - though perhaps more consistent in mood. I can see why some might prefer it, but I don't think it's quite the Opeth-killer it was made out to be.

yep, it's definitely very difficult to put opeth and katatonia in the same basket. the beauty of it is, you can have both bands in your world and they'll provide completely different listening experiences and take you to different places.

in terms of hitting a particular mood in a profound way, i'd agree that katatonia is more fitting. the premise of the songs often relates to melancholy and depression of a day-to-day nature. raw, candid emotions are channeled very explicitly and directly through both the lyrics and vocal deliveries. jonas renkse appears to be some sort of depressive.

opeth are undeniably sombre and melancholy at times, but listening to their songs is like hearing a story or narrative unfold. m. akerfeldt is all about developing and creating a sad scenario and musical backdrop for us. there is a fairly elaborate creative process to most opeth songs that stems from an imagined and often rather ethereal and otherwordly vision. the listener is therefore best advised to approach the music as a complete construction, rather than as an expression of sheer tangible emotion that naturally translates itself into song. that's not to suggest that opeth are wooden, soulless bores a la dream theater. for opeth, the emotive element is derived from an all-encomassing love for music and a desire to explore the possibilities of song and sound in innovative and touching ways. the fact that the crafting of music is such an honest and inspired process for opeth is one of the principle resons the music can be so affecting.

C

I thought Watershed thru to Sorceress were mediocre. But loved In Cauda... Looking forward to this.

listening to Blackwater tonight and I literally have no idea how the fuck I disliked this album.

going to go out on a limb and just say I was Opethed out at the time, cos this is them doing what they do best and adding some new wrinkles.

that's really the only one of those I've gone through any real reappraisal of, since I more or less liked the four before it instantly and the remainder varies, though I really liked the one from 2022.

The Storm Corrosion album (Mikael Åkerfeldt and Steven Wilson's one-off prog collaboration, which came out on Roadrunner while I worked there) is being reissued through Kscope with a live bonus track — apparently Mikael showed up at a Wilson solo show and they played one song from the album.

https://kscopemusic.com/artists/storm-corrosion/

Anyone know what’s up with the release date for this? A bunch of places, including Amazon, have now changed to a November 22nd release date instead of October 11th. Not sure if this is just physical versions or the whole release.

The band's website is still listing the October 11 date. I ordered it from the label webstore and they still have that date, too.

Ugh, officially delayed across the board. Per the band's social media accounts this morning:

"We regret to inform you that the release date for our album has been postponed to November 22 due to unforeseen delays in the manufacturing process.

We strive to deliver the highest quality product possible, and to achieve that, we need a bit more time to ensure the final release meets our standards.

We understand that this may come as a disappointment, but we sincerely appreciate your patience and continued support. We cant' wait to share this new music with you... and we are confident it will be worth the wait."

I want to know why they didn't play Chicago. Though I suppose with the release date delay they'll tour again to properly support it soon enough.

they killed in NOLA. a treat finally getting to see them

Yeah I couldn't swing Milwaukee and was really disappointed they didn't hit Chicago. Definitely hoping they come back through in 2025.

They only time I've seen them was on the Heritage Hunter tour with Mastodon and Ghost (I mean, don't get me wrong, absolutely stacked lineup, but I'd love to see Opeth as a headliner).

I've been fortunate enough to see them a few times, the first time back in ... 2004?! I've seen them here and there since then, perhaps most notably as the last major show I saw before covid landed. I remember being with my friend in a Chinese restaurant (Sun Wah in uptown) before the Riv show, wondering if we were morons for being out and about. This was Valentine's Day 2020.

I saw them for the first time in 2003, and then again in 2011 and 2014(?) and I feel like maybe one more time after that. Definitely saw them more in their prog era than in their metal era.

Happy New Opeth Album Day, for all those that celebrate.

It's really good. The concept-album factor doesn't really weigh in for me; I'm not paying any attention to the lyrics. But musically it's very much in Blackwater Park/Deliverance/Ghost Reveries/Watershed territory more than "prog Opeth" territory, heavier than they've been in a while.

Has Opeth even come close to releasing a bad album? Heck of a run from these guys. 14 at minimum worthwhile but mostly great albums in 30 years?

There's some I like a lot more than others — Heritage and Sorceress are definitely the ones I play the least — but no, nothing they've done is flat-out bad.

I kind of think the new one actually falls on the proggier side of things, relatively speaking. Not in the '70s prog sense (a la "Sorceress") but kind of ... '90s prog? Definitely weird and all over the place.

They've never released a bad album, but the production on Sorceress is puzzling. The new one, though, is a new high water mark. Firing on all cylinders, immaculately balancing the aggression of Watershed/Ghost Reveries with the band's newfound progrock proficiency. And the lyrics are terrific, it unfolds the drama in a very fun way.

This is good isnt it? I saw them live a couple of years ago and I was bored, but this is great stuff

I'm beginning to digest this. It's good. I really liked In Cauda... after (IMO) a few poor albums. Hoping they're on a good streak.

Right now I'd rank the new one behind Blackwater Park, Ghost Reveries, and Damnation. It's that great.

i watched this the other night. sounds great. fan-chosen set-list.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P70fTwHYBtA

This might be the only concept album ever that I've bothered trying to decipher. It's actually pretty straightforward, maybe too much so, given the overwrought (in the best metal sense) drama of the album.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnDe1RnNNn8

"How long is this song, I can't even remember how it started!"

so many of those Drumeo videos are really great to watch; the one where the current Mars Volta drummer does Rush is excellent

Playing here on my birthday in February, stoked

Still stoked!

I've never heard of this band in my life, but a friend's teenage kid put them on during a BBQ - he took over the Alexa to put his gloomy playlist on! - and I thought they sounded great. I think the track was "To Rid the Disease" - I've been exploring the back catalog since then. They sort of remind me of Porcupine Tree. But I don't know much about modern prog.