Elvis Costello: Classic or Dud

Ned - it must be really cool to have a complete collection of records by people you dislike.

I wouldn't mind looking like Beck, or even Elvis Costello, but I guess that just proves David Lee Roth's point - but I'm not a critic, so maybe it's OK.

I find Sumner's voice far more compelling than EC's; like Ned, lyrics to me are not the be-all-end-all qualification for "good vocals." (Even though I'd take Sumner's lyrics over EC's...) But I can see why people like EC; he does have a knack for a hook (but so does Sumner--no pun intended ;-)--but I must say, I have two of his records, and I hardly listen to them, ever.

Dylan I like, though. He sounds quite fragile ("Har-har-har, that's 'cause he can't sing in tune!" NOT FUNNY, CLICHE-WIELDING ASSHOLES!), as opposed to EC, who comes across to me as pretty smug a lot of the time. Of course, Bright Eyes sounds fragile, and I don't know if I could name one vocalist whose teeth I'd rather kick in...

My Aim Is True is a great record that took me a long time to get into. In fact, it's one of my favourites, despite the pub-rock backing group. I always thought they were the perfect band for the 50s Punk Buddy Holly thing he was being marketed as at the time. The lyrics are great, too: "now that your picture's in the paper / being rhythmically admired"? Brilliance. I haven't listened to any of his other stuff except "Pump It Up" and "I Don't Want To Go To Chelsea" and "Veronica" and they're all good too. Hey Ned, how much for the collection?

that said, he's not luther vandross and when he sings out of his range, it's at best endearing, at worst really, really, really bad.

i like e.c. because he's got a lot of pop smarts, see for example his nicks of everyone from abba to stax. i can listen to him rather than, say, dylan because not only does he have fine lyrics but he takes an active interest in the recording process and is an underrated melodist.

Well, Slick Rick was cool...and I think I would like to see a Morrissey rap record.

I think if Morrissey created a rap album I'd have to kill myself. I'd listen to an Oasis rap album because it'd be hella funny.

Oasis definitely should make a rap album -- couldn't be much worse than their last album. I could see Liam rapping a la Lil Kim about his designer clothes. Noel could learn how to mix or be a backup dancer, because he would be boring on the mike.

And going back to Pinefox -- it's obvious to me, but that doesn't mean it has to be obvious or even slightly accurate to anyone else. My own biases are just that, and I don't seem to have implied anything more than that throughout the thread. If anything, you're the one who expressed bewilderment that someone could rank Sumner higher than EC in one's affections -- may I humbly point out that not everyone would see your view as obvious either?

I appreciate passion and opinion. I detest dogma. It's as simple as that.

Lest you find this too contrary to believe, I have no problem per se with this 'thoughtful craftsman' ideal per se. There's plenty of music I love that was created by people who put effort into it from start to finish, who have high standards of personal perfection. All very well, but my problem is when this is wrongfully prioritized, automatically granting whatever is produced by such a figure some critical cachet over something else done quickly and cheaply from a company out to score. That I refuse to accept -- it ranks the motivations of creation as more artistically important than the creation itself.

If somebody comes up with something random one night and has a full song the next day that turns into something rushed to market, while someone else spends ten years' creating something, and both get heard by me and I think the first thing is great and the second is boring crap, then that's just the way of things. The reverse reaction can easily happen, of course -- but it doesn't *always* happen.

It's just that I'm ridiculously intellectually precious about people who have, what seems to me, an outmoded view of the place in which I live, and it only takes one brief comment to provoke me. That's all.

>>> I appreciate passion and opinion. I detest dogma. It's as simple as that.

It sure sounds simple and appealing when you put it that way. Everyone likes to think they detest that awful thing 'dogma', which is always conveniently something that somebody else has. "He is a redneck; you are rigidly ideological; I, on the other hand, hold views with delicious suppleness".

This is all fair enough but seems to me like a very weak critique of EC's records, which have been consistently interesting and experimental (albeit not consistently excellent). I think it's possible to get hung up on his words and miss the fact that he has a knack of writing fantastic tunes from time to time.

Of course, I'm one of those people who likes the sound of his voice, so that makes things easier.

Your point is taken, Tim, that I've not yet heard everything he's done, and I allow for those records that EC himself has problems with, notably _Goodbye Cruel World_. I actually think Andy's point comparing him to Van Morrison is worthy -- what you see as experimenting I see as generally dry genre exercise, such as the Brodsky Quartet album. I'm vaguely impressed with the attempt but not keen on the results. As for 'consistently interesting,' can we take it as read at this point that this is NOT universal opinion?

As for my being an Oasis enthusiast, what of it? EC and Noel Gallagher may both be stodges of Irish descent at heart, but at least I don't feel like I'm at a damn lecture about How To Be An Important and Innovative Musical Figure when I listen to a song like "Slide Away." If EC inevitably projects that aura to me, that's life.

As for Oasis, there are no bigger slaves to craft and classicism in rock at the moment, and that's the comparison I was making. If you're saying *now* that EC's records sound like dry lectures in classicism that's very interesting and I'd like you to give some examples (particularly regarding his stuff pre-1985). However, that's not the argument I thought you were making above, which seemed to rely more on what EC *had to say* about music in interviews. Forgive me if I misinterpreted.

The problem with hardcore/jungle/garage mc-ing is that it hasn't yet (at least to my knowledge) evolved beyond formularised lyrical content that works as a support to a track rather than something that can inspire in its own right.

But the UK pop market would appear to me to be wide open to a charismatic garage mc with inventive lyrics.

Oh yeah. Saw it before but couldn’t quite parse through all the punctuation

xxp

I’d love to see a “Useless Beauty” show - that’s probably the most recent (er 28 years-old) record I’d happily see as a whole-album gig.

I fell off from EC after “Cruel” although the autobiography’s fun. We should do (if we haven’t) some kind of POX “EC 2003-Present”

I overlooked Useless Beauty until I stumbled upon Costello & Nieve - it's great and probably my favorite Elvis Costello release of the '90s, not that there's much competition. Costello and Nieve still do tours with just the two of them, and they actually did a one-off in that format as part of the Gramercy Theater residency last year in NYC.

The most recent album surprised me. IMHO it's his best and most consistent album in a long time - I actually enjoy it a lot from start to finish. Before it came out, I would've said that When I Was Cruel and The Delivery Man were the last ones I really liked, but even then with caveats. (I'd say half of The Delivery Man is excellent while the other half is just all right, and When I Was Cruel suffers from CD-era bloat with maybe 20 minutes worth of lesser songs that weigh it down.)

I think every other album in between that isn't some attempt at straight-ahead jazz or classical music will have anywhere between three or five cuts worth going back to - not exactly great but better than I would've expected.

Which album is the most recent one? His discography is all over the place with different projects and hard to keep track!

The Boy Named If. I agree completely with birdistheword, it's like a spiritual successor to Brutal Youth and When I Was Cruel was also my departure point. I didn't care for sugarcane and the other 00's albums; Momofuku is not bad I guess but I can't remember anything about it.

Funny, Cruel was the last one I recall really getting into as well. Time flies! I remember thinking he's got a song about being 45, he is old, lol.

I'm glad I got to see him with classic reunited Attractions line up behind Brutal Youth and Useless Beauty. I remember him playing the same night as the Sex Pistols when touring behind the latter, and thinking, which would I regret not seeing more? EC and crew weren't at their best and were about to break up again, but I'm glad I went.

Got to see him play a small club behind Cruel, and he was great, but I also saw him last summer or so with Charlie Sexton in the band, and he was still great. Could EC possibly be ... underrated?

Fascist confessions bring detractors
Keeping shtum
Brings dough and attractions
Costello, ideas trenchant borrows
New song benefactor
Is the past tomorrow

is that an epic palindrome?

Funny how so many of us got off the bus at the same time (tbf, North was so unutterably shite how could you not) & have the same experiences with his post-Cruel / Delivery output (some songs seem like keepers but we can’t really remember many of them)

I should check out the new one, why the hell not

Yeah I used to pride myself on following every twist but yeah North was the most boring record I'd ever heard.

North and The Juliet Letters for that matter bore me as well. I definitely have a great appreciation for classical music and jazz (including straight jazz) but if anything, that just makes the shortcomings of both albums even more painfully obvious.

It's really disappointing how two of my favorite recording artists of the late '70s and '80s (Prince and EC) can produce so much great work across a wide array of styles, and then when they finally turn their full attention towards jazz, they come up with the most milquetoast records of their entire career.

North still sucks - I just checked - but I still really like the sound of Juliet Letters. He’s still singing like he did on Spike and hasn’t been lost up his own vibrato yet. There are at least 4 or 5 very good songs there. I enjoy it a lot more than the Bacharach record.

I will definitely check “…IF” - thanks!

I've never bothered with any of the Costello albums post Spike.

Since I said this four years ago I was inspired to check out Painted From Memory due to "Toledo" appearing on a Bacharach compilation. It helped that it was Costello's best-rated album since the 80s on RYM.
Though the arrangements seem self-consciously "classy" in an old-fashioned way, and the singing has obviously been rehearsed to perfection (with a certain loss of spontaneity), I liked this record quite a lot. Though it doesn't rock at all, the better songs have a lot of clever and soulful twists and both Costello and Bacharach seemed completely "present".

...in that they could seemingly both "do their thing" without getting in each other's way or holding back.

yeah i still love that one

I actually didn't like that album when I first heard it. It took a long time for it to grow on me, but it may say something that I didn't listen to very many Burt Bacharach songs at the time. I've since become a big fan of Bacharach's work with Dionne Warwick, and I think Painted from Memory is excellent too, probably his best studio album of the '90s.

(Elvis's that is. I don't think Bacharach recorded any others under his name during the '90s.)

I loved Painted from Memory when it came out but I haven't been moved to revisit it in years and years. Juliet Letters I just repurchased on vinyl and I still really like it. I got to see him and the Quartet perform this live and it was so great.

I saw him and Nieve as a duo once, a great show that allowed him to successfully indulge in jazz and classical and Burt while still being himself imo. I think they just toured or are playing a few shows as a duo again this year, maybe?

Yeah, February and March, ending with three nights in Chicago with four extra musicians.

i saw E.C. with (Sexton and) the Imposters a year and a half ago. Nick Lowe opened. It was awesome and was only about a $50 show. Am really bummed this tour is like 4x the price.

Saw EC and Steve Nieve last night. They were excellent. Highlights were a particularly angry (and sadly timely) Less Than Zero, She, Brilliant Mistake and many others. Because it's EC there were too many ballads for my taste but he played and sounded great. And Nieve has a very good voice. Who knew?

Sounds good!

Feel like EC is basically a good singer but there's so often too much strain in his voice all the way through a song, rather than a strategic deployment thereof. And yeah, the ballads in particular can be interminable.

saw EC & The Imposters w Charlie Sexton last night in Sacramento

sound was not good, drums were miked v weirdly, snare was SO fucking loud & weird sounding. (mr veg thought it sounded like a practice snare.)

plus for the first half it seemed like EC was saving his voice, but also his vocals seemed a step or two behind the band somehow, so maybe moniors werent working idk

i was worried we were in for a dud show. the sound never really improved, but EC vocals improved in the back half & he closed the show in full voice. ended up being a good time (whew!)

ECstill charming as ever during stage banter

also never get tired of Naive’s playing. fucking magic. and despite weird snare, Thompson still one of the GOATs.

I heard someone say the same thing about an earlier show in the tour, which is strange - same problems early on, then it got better.

it was very odd!