the robyn thing makes less sense imo than the janelle ... janelle is an R&B artist incorporating other influences & going for different concepts (lol --- was she influenced by sun ra???) the diff between robyn & gaga in terms of 'content' is so narcissism of hipster differences i can barely see it
― *plop*ism rules (deej), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:00 (thirteen years ago) link
(lol --- was she influenced by sun ra???)
I know you're joking but the likely answer here is "yes".
― Tina Tina Cheneuse (DJP), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:02 (thirteen years ago) link
i think what deej meant is that "drake's a major rap star and he's from canada! and light-skinned! and a child star! and he sings!" is a narrtive that his fans lean on to justify his importance even more than his detractors use to criticize him (why bother when we've got the monotonous flow, the grocery bag punchlines, the inane 'deep thoughts' to make fun of).
― hey young ppl world (some dude), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:02 (thirteen years ago) link
I get that; what I'm saying (which I realize is almost 180 degrees in the opposite direction of how I usually argue) is that clearly those things are important to the people championing dude otherwise they wouldn't keep mentioning them all the time, and as such it feels like deej is saying "tell me what you like about this dude without telling me about the things you like about this dude".
― Tina Tina Cheneuse (DJP), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:06 (thirteen years ago) link
xpost Ha, yes, so plainly influenced by Sun Ra - she goes deep into the afrofuturist stuff.
There are significant differences between Robyn and Gaga, deej, but I think you're right about why certain critics will rave about the former and be snide about the latter.
― The baby boomers have defined everything once and for all (Dorianlynskey), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:06 (thirteen years ago) link
which critics are praising him for his biography?
― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:06 (thirteen years ago) link
I mean, I get that he's praised for sounding so fucking strange but I don't get that the subtext of said complaints is, "lol well he's Canadian remember."
― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:10 (thirteen years ago) link
well at the very beginning it wasn't a subtext
― return of the nakh (J0rdan S.), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:11 (thirteen years ago) link
robyn has weaker beats for one thing! not just a jab: you can't lose yourself in them physically, they're not "mindless" in the way the best club beats are ("mindless" not being mutually exclusive with "smart"). you get your detachment and your distance from "common" pop, basically. the same goes for her affectless, unmelismatic voice too.
idk if gaga is the comparison that best illustrates the odd doublethink going on in responses to robyn vis-à-vis other popstars, though - i like the one the alfred outlined here, to ciara: http://www.thesinglesjukebox.com/?p=2261
― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:11 (thirteen years ago) link
the canadian thing was made a point by a lot of ppl who praised him for being an outsider
― return of the nakh (J0rdan S.), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:12 (thirteen years ago) link
― Tina Tina Cheneuse (DJP), Friday, December 17, 2010 3:02 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i agree - id be more willing to believe she was a sun ra head than dungeon fam were -- imo they were just riffing off pfunk stuff, at least early on
― *plop*ism rules (deej), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:12 (thirteen years ago) link
well, Pitchfork (lol): http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/14367-thank-me-later/this one sets the framework of it being autobiographical before diving into the songs themselves: http://hiphopwired.com/2010/06/16/drake-thank-me-later-review/also his bio is used as a selling point for the album here: http://www.prefixmag.com/reviews/drake/thank-me-later/30715/and there are several "first-ever Canadian emcee to do this" refs to his accomplishments pre-album here: http://www.culturebully.com/drake-thank-me-later-album-review
These are the first 4 Google hits on "drake thank me later review".
You would agree, though, that Parliament was unambiguously and irrefutably informed by Sun Ra, right? I mean, you're basically arguing semantics here.
― Tina Tina Cheneuse (DJP), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:16 (thirteen years ago) link
this is an argument for the other thread but im not actually entirely convince they were wholly influenced by sun ra, or that he wasnt more than a nominal influence... pop cult stuff in this era was full of space age detritus -- if you have a quote wherein GC or bootsy credit sun ra w/ being a chief influence i'll stand down on that particular point, though
― *plop*ism rules (deej), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:20 (thirteen years ago) link
xpost. Hmm. I find the beat of Dancing on My Own irresistible and the vocal genuinely moving. Ditto with Hang With Me. I don't find her distancing. I just think she's catnip to thirtysomethings with fond memories of synth-pop - more retro than Gaga.
― The baby boomers have defined everything once and for all (Dorianlynskey), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:21 (thirteen years ago) link
the famous clinton line re: sun ra is "This boy was definitely out to lunch--same place I eat." Though I dunno if he ever outright kissed ra's boot.
― da croupier, Friday, 17 December 2010 21:24 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah the Clinton quote sounds like him saying "we get compared a lot and i respect that he was out there as much as i was but i don't actually consider him a big influence on my work"
― hey young ppl world (some dude), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:29 (thirteen years ago) link
i'm gonna work through the RA tracks list tonight (haven't been out anywhere near enough this year waaah)
lex i checked out & enjoyed the k. michelle due to your reppin - thx
― whitney from mtv's the city (tpp), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:29 (thirteen years ago) link
― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, December 17, 2010 4:06 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, December 17, 2010 4:10 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
the argument i had w/ the aforementioned Post critic about Drake came from him comparing him to Timberlake circa Justified -- the outsider who was too white and too child-star-background to get taken seriously in some circles become a darling of urban radio and treated with respected by every cool platinum rapper etc. i think for some people Drake represents a new paradigm of rap stardom the same way Kanye played up the whole Benz and a backpack thing when he first came out.
― hey young ppl world (some dude), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:32 (thirteen years ago) link
I think "informed" and "influenced" are similar, but semantically different words.
"Influenced" implies (to me) that you never would have had the idea without encountering X.
"Informed" implies (again, to me) that you would have had the idea, but X had some impact on how you decided to express it.
This is why I said "informed by" and not "influenced by".
― Tina Tina Cheneuse (DJP), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:34 (thirteen years ago) link
i want dan to guest edit pitchfork for a week, it'd put the fear of god into half their writers
― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:35 (thirteen years ago) link
the ppl (of my young world) who love drake don't really care about what he represents they just dig his songs + play them all the time and like to sing along. for this reason drake placing highly annoys me less than kanye where the ppl showering the album with praise have generally just listened to it a couple of times before declaring it genius. anyone who seriously thinks drake represents anything needs their head examined.
― whitney from mtv's the city (tpp), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:36 (thirteen years ago) link
<3
― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:36 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah tpp i don't necessarily think all the kids putting "Say Something" and "Find Your Love" at the top of request line countdowns care much about Drake's background, i mean more in terms of the people who gave his album glowing reviews and are putting it on year-end lists
― hey young ppl world (some dude), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:40 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah i agree actually
also that boston rap list is a classic case of americans be thinkin' they bork borks
― whitney from mtv's the city (tpp), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:43 (thirteen years ago) link
looool
― hey young ppl world (some dude), Friday, 17 December 2010 21:43 (thirteen years ago) link
what does that even mean?
― The Reverend, Saturday, 18 December 2010 04:42 (thirteen years ago) link
It's the fact that Drake's commercial success has (AFAICT) actually not much to do with his "persona" that the critical leaning on it seems excessive.
And it's interesting Dan that you also cited Janelle and Tori Amos, two artists who I think also get praised and criticised in terms of their persona to an excessive degree (though certainly in both cases it's an important aspect of each artist's work). Tori is a classic case of this ultimately working against the artist because almost no-one - even among her sympathetic critics - actually plays close attention to what she's doing compositionally.
― Tim F, Saturday, 18 December 2010 05:01 (thirteen years ago) link
I think we've just discovered the target market that finds Salem's music "sexy".
On Sound Opinions, DeRo even said (of the Salem album): "It makes me want to run naked through the woods, doing horrible pagan things, sacrificing goats to the dark lords below."
― Zsa Zsa Gay Bar (jaymc), Saturday, 18 December 2010 05:24 (thirteen years ago) link
I thought DeRo liked white women?
His wife's Hispanic!
― Zsa Zsa Gay Bar (jaymc), Saturday, 18 December 2010 05:28 (thirteen years ago) link
one thing i'll give drake is that if you're really into his production aesthetic, it can be pretty novel at times for a "rap" album, but i still don't think it makes up for everything else
I don't unreservedly love the album, but I do like Drake's chill production aesthetic. There are a few lines I cringe at here and there, but tbh, I don't really pay attention to Drake himself that much when I'm listening to it.
― Zsa Zsa Gay Bar (jaymc), Saturday, 18 December 2010 05:30 (thirteen years ago) link
Not a magazine but here's Other Music's Best of 2010
― Kevin John Bozelka, Saturday, 18 December 2010 07:11 (thirteen years ago) link
not to try and start something, but I find it strange that our/FACT's albums of the year list gets criticised here for featuring Salem, Drake, Kanye and Darkstar in the 40 (amongst Ferraro, Rashad, Roc, Ettinger, Actress, Forest Swords, Altered Natives et al), while Resident Advisor (who i like, and in certain aspects look up to - particularly presentation) do one of the safest top 20s I can imagine, with everything either house, techno, or very house and techno-friendly, and it gets called great.
is this really true dance folx? because i quite liked the idea of the RA list as described but when i got there LCD Soundsystem, Flying Lotus, Bonobo, Four Tet and a lot of kinda dubsteppy stuff wasn't that idea.
― zvookster, Saturday, 18 December 2010 07:30 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah RA increasingly resembles FACT anyway, its focus on house and techno isn't nearly as dominating as it was, say, 3 years ago.
― Tim F, Saturday, 18 December 2010 07:57 (thirteen years ago) link
http://musosguide.com/albums-of-2010-5-1/12630
40 Baths - Cerulean39 Ariel Pink’s Haunted Graffiti - Before Today38 Actress - Splazsh37 Deerhunter - Halcyon Digest36 Frightened Rabbit - The Winter of Mixed Drinks35 Vampire Weekend - Contra34 Summer Camp - Young EP33 Field Music - Field Music (Measure)32 Allo Darlin’ - Allo Darlin’31 Flying Lotus - Cosmogramma30 The Phantom Band - The Wants29 Hot Chip - One Life Stand28 Best Coast - Crazy For You27 Yeasayer - Odd Blood26 Big Boi - Sir Lucious Left Foot: The Son of Chico Dusty25 The-Dream - Love King24 Gold Panda - Lucky Shiner23 Anais Mitchell - Hadestown22 Sleigh Bells - Treats21 Blood Red Shoes - Fire Like This20 The Radio Dept. - Clinging To A Scheme19 Caribou - Swim18 Everything Everything - Man Alive17 Sufjan Stevens - The Age of Adz16 These New Puritans - Hidden15 Owen Pallet - Heartland14 Robyn - Body Talk13 Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy12 Gorillaz - Plastic Beach11 Beach House - Teen Dream10 Perfume Genius - Learning9 Laura Marling - I Speak Because I Can8 Four Tet - There Is Love In You7 Foals - Total Life Forever6 LCD Soundsystem - This Is Happening5 Janelle Monae - The ArchAndroid4 Los Campesinos! - Romance is Boring3 Arcade Fire - The Suburbs2 Joanna Newsom - Have One On Me1 The National - High Violet
― Mitchell Stirling, Saturday, 18 December 2010 11:21 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm still perplexed why anyone would compared Robyn and Lady Gaga, who sound/look/etc totally different and have a completely different MO. Anyway, as a fan of both, I wonder honestly if Gaga would merit if the visual component were not so strong - if she didn't make epic gonzo videos, wear meat dresses, light things on fire, etc. Robyn, on the other hand, seems to be gaining traction minus those (cool!) peripherals. Despite a thinner voice and starker beats, she doesn't seem to need them the way Gaga does.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 18 December 2010 14:14 (thirteen years ago) link
caught up!
― call all destroyer, Saturday, 18 December 2010 16:01 (thirteen years ago) link
i guess i really need to hear those thomas koner reissues, huh? electronic AND metal people keep raving about that stuff.
― scott seward, Saturday, 18 December 2010 17:19 (thirteen years ago) link
Koner never clicked with me :(
― larry longballs money (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 18 December 2010 17:22 (thirteen years ago) link
my REAL top ten of the year would honestly just be labels. type, utech, editions mego, rune grammophon. love it all kinda.
― scott seward, Saturday, 18 December 2010 17:30 (thirteen years ago) link
sedimental, hells headbangers. okay, thats only six. but i could come up with more.
― scott seward, Saturday, 18 December 2010 17:31 (thirteen years ago) link
― larry longballs money (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 18 December 2010 17:22 (9 minutes ago)
la barca was nice
he's good but not especially groundbreaking
― nakhchivan, Saturday, 18 December 2010 17:32 (thirteen years ago) link
people who love him really seem to love him.
― scott seward, Saturday, 18 December 2010 17:33 (thirteen years ago) link
forget who listed koner on the metalsucks musicians list. isis dude, i think, and someone else.
http://www.metalsucks.net/2010/12/17/worst-year-ever-all-of-our-2010-year-end-shit-in-one-place/#more-50613
plus, just hearing a lot about him elsewhere too.
― scott seward, Saturday, 18 December 2010 17:37 (thirteen years ago) link
didn't koner remix isis a while back
i can see the crossover appeal of his heavy drone stuff
did anyone get the eleh record the wire are so fond of?
― nakhchivan, Saturday, 18 December 2010 17:39 (thirteen years ago) link
too bad its almost impossible for me to actually look at stuff on metalsucks.
― scott seward, Saturday, 18 December 2010 17:41 (thirteen years ago) link
i had an eleh record on vinyl and its almost like its not on when its on.
I got the Eleh, and um, it's kind of a challenge to listen to imo.
― O Permaban (NickB), Saturday, 18 December 2010 17:44 (thirteen years ago) link
he's good but not especially groundbreaking --nakhchivan
More like he's groundbreaking but not especially interesting. I've tried so hard with this dude!
― larry longballs money (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 18 December 2010 17:44 (thirteen years ago) link
I fuck with Eleh though
― larry longballs money (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 18 December 2010 17:45 (thirteen years ago) link
Hey, here we go...
The Wire - Avant Rock 2010
Acid Mothers Temple - In ~Ash Pool - For Which He Plies The LashExpo 70 - Where Does Your Mind Go?Michael Hurley - Blue HillsK11 - Metaphonic Portrait 1230 ADDavid Maranha - AntarcticaBill Orcutt - Way Down SouthThe Orkustra - Adventures In Experimental Electric Orchestra From The San Francisco UndergroundAriel Pink's Haunted Graffiti - Before TodayPuffy Areolas - In The Army 1981Rangda - False FlagRangers - Suburban ToursSun Circle - LessnessWooden Wand - Dream SeatXeno & Oaklander - Sentinelle
― O Permaban (NickB), Saturday, 18 December 2010 17:49 (thirteen years ago) link