There's just something very condescending about BIG! ARTISTIC! STATEMENTS! being praised by rock critics, seemingly only because it's a language they can understand.
― altered boners (rennavate), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:44 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm probably closest to Ewing and ship.
― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:44 (thirteen years ago) link
while we're choosing softball teams I'm with alfred and ship and lex
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:45 (thirteen years ago) link
as long as I'm in outfield with lex
― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:46 (thirteen years ago) link
one of you is the catcher
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:46 (thirteen years ago) link
― altered boners (rennavate), Monday, November 22, 2010 11:44 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
absolutely! but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. anyway, i do think there's plenty here worth keeping, ambition aside.
― The SBurbs (Alex in Montreal), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:47 (thirteen years ago) link
The 42 people involved thing just makes me think of the scene in Walk Hard where dude has a whole studio full of people trying to male the Sgt Peppers of cutting yr brother in half with a machete.
Also I thought max was the og fake carles?
― hoy orbison (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:48 (thirteen years ago) link
andy's review best aligns w/ my viewpoints
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:49 (thirteen years ago) link
the 42 people thing makes me think of phil spector stuffing 42 guitarists in a room, except that actually sounded good
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:49 (thirteen years ago) link
That's the thing -- BB's album doesn't sound at all stale or canned to my ears. The good to great songs take a good musical idea and expand it within three to four minutes. I know it's a false dichotomy, but very little on MDTF startled me like the stuttering bullfrog thing on "Shutterbug" (I know, I know -- it's been attempted on "The Whole World") or the juxtaposition of guitar and percussion on "Tangerine" or Jamie Foxx's bit on "Hustle Blood."
― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, November 22, 2010 10:43 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i think compared to a lot of other rap out this year, this stuff really wasnt all that novel.
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:51 (thirteen years ago) link
im the og real carles
― max, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:55 (thirteen years ago) link
i dunno, rap music w/ huge instrumental suites & written as an exploration of the self & celebrity & ego & etc etc it all strikes me as rather unambiguously ambitious
whether or not u think that is a 'good thing' is up to you
yes
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:41 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark
yes its ambitious for rap music but is it ambitious for 'music' as a collective whole?
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:56 (thirteen years ago) link
i love the big boi album when it's just rap music and not wacky novel ideas, & i love the prog retardation & excess of mbdtf more than the parts that resemble more closely rap music
― samosa gibreel, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:57 (thirteen years ago) link
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Monday, November 22, 2010 10:56 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
smh @ there being a difference
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:58 (thirteen years ago) link
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Monday, November 22, 2010 10:56 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
what other music (right now) is more ambitious than rap/r&b? i'd say nothing -- so i'd answer 'yes' to this question
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:58 (thirteen years ago) link
also that
idk, I'm just curious by what metrics does this sound ambitious, and the evidence you presented only make it sound ambitious within the landscape of rap
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:03 (thirteen years ago) link
except it is rap. so, wouldnt it be more ambitious than a non-rap artist doing the same things, but without u know rza beats & john legend cameos & groupie poems?
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:04 (thirteen years ago) link
In a Lil B world this doesn't seem to say AMBITIOUS, YO. Hell who didn't just rtde at seeing Elton John on here? How long ago was it he did the Grammys with Em? Yo Kanye our minds are blown you worked with a guy dead 2pac made it with first.
― hoy orbison (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:04 (thirteen years ago) link
well, i think theres something to be said for making something ambitious that lots of ppl want to hear vs. making something ambitious that a niche fanbase will put up with in small doses
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:06 (thirteen years ago) link
idg that last point you made deej
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:06 (thirteen years ago) link
im talking about lil b ambitious vs. kanye ambitious. you're as ambitious as your audience can let you be. in a merzbow world, how is kanye ambitious??
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:09 (thirteen years ago) link
lil b is ambitious in a totally different way
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:10 (thirteen years ago) link
oh I meant the one before that one, about "so, wouldnt it be more ambitious than a non-rap artist doing the same things, but without u know rza beats & john legend cameos & groupie poems?"
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:11 (thirteen years ago) link
i think he means: its more ambitious for a rapper to make a prog album than for a prog band to make a prog album
― samosa gibreel, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:11 (thirteen years ago) link
lil b is ambitious in terms of work ethic & promotion & conceptualizing a persona (obv) but i mean straight music qua music, lil b is not on a 'twisted fantasy' level
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:11 (thirteen years ago) link
Way to wimp out and even pixelate the image inside the CD booklet Kanye.
― "I am a fairly respected poster." (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:11 (thirteen years ago) link
But I'm not sure Kanye has ever given a flying fuck what his audience thinks?
― hoy orbison (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:12 (thirteen years ago) link
― "I am a fairly respected poster." (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, November 22, 2010 11:11 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
lol record labels -- ask nas about this
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:13 (thirteen years ago) link
for real?? there are really high profile interview quotes w/ him reflecting on the nature of being popular & keeping / losing an audience that i havent even gone out of my way to find but seem to have floated up at me since the hype cycle for this thing started xp
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:13 (thirteen years ago) link
anyway, all I'm asking is what's musically ambitious about this album, i.e. ambitious about the music in and of itself. like if you took a music fan and made him listen to this w/o presenting any of the backstory, the Kanye narrative, the football team that he assembled for all of the lights, would he walk away being like "this is the most ambitious album I've ever heard! 10.0!"
think the closest we've come to that is DJP liveblogging itt
like my problem with this album is that for all the music crit adulation, the album itself just isn't all that interesting to listen to, and the extra-musical ambitions and drama don't really translate into interesting musical compositions
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:14 (thirteen years ago) link
Well, that was a little different, but I'm surprised Cudi can get away with topless girls in his booklet but someone like Kanye can't get away with a fucked-up cartoon.
― "I am a fairly respected poster." (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:15 (thirteen years ago) link
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Monday, November 22, 2010 11:14 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i think there are some moments on here for sure, although i dont imagine playing this record very often, but a lot of this stuff def feels new or un-covered by other artists. i think its a fairly novel album, expensively so, so i see 'ambitious'
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:17 (thirteen years ago) link
― J0rdan S., Monday, November 22, 2010 10:13 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark
What are you talking about... my version has it non-pixelated. Sucks to be Amurrican, I guess.
― altered boners (rennavate), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:19 (thirteen years ago) link
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Monday, November 22, 2010 8:56 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark
this isn't a dumb question. different genres of music are conservative and/or ambitious in different ways. MBTDF seem ambitious in a way that's consistent with a lot of 70s prog and pop: deeply personal to the point of being obsessed with the self as subject, drawing from wildly disparate sources, unafraid of looking a little (a lot) ridiculous. but these qualities are, or have been, less common in rap. don't think the comparison takes anything away from this record, kanye or rap in general.
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:19 (thirteen years ago) link
yes, sincerely, FUCK THIS
so disappointed
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:20 (thirteen years ago) link
i don't think it's necessary to find it interesting in a good way to acknowledge that it's ambitious, dayo
― samosa gibreel, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:21 (thirteen years ago) link
I kinda think it's do if you're gonna give it a perfect score, samosa
like 'ambitious' should not be the only metric involved here
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:22 (thirteen years ago) link
wtf "it's do" "it is necessary" obv
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Monday, November 22, 2010 10:20 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT... it`s not pixelated.
― altered boners (rennavate), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:23 (thirteen years ago) link
now yr sounding like al, so im going to point out the obvious that i think most of pfork's writers probably also like the record
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:24 (thirteen years ago) link
― altered boners (rennavate), Monday, November 22, 2010 11:23 PM (28 seconds ago) Bookmark
hey chill out i'm pretty sure that they know whether or not their booklets are pixelated
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:24 (thirteen years ago) link
so wait whats your point dayo? that it's not ambitious, or that its not perfect, or that its neither?
― samosa gibreel, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:25 (thirteen years ago) link
oh man thanks rennavate, turns out I just had this blurry spot in my eyes every time I looked at this one particular page in the book
― "I am a fairly respected poster." (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:25 (thirteen years ago) link
you wouldn't know it from reading the reviews xp to deej
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:26 (thirteen years ago) link
right right i`m just being snarky but i mean that`s weird... maybe a decision for american markets? or maybe certain outlets?
― altered boners (rennavate), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:26 (thirteen years ago) link
didnt mean to get snide, also, for the record.
― altered boners (rennavate), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:27 (thirteen years ago) link
that it's not an interrsting album in and of itself samosa
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:28 (thirteen years ago) link
Could be, I suppose, although hard for me to imagine going through the pain of altering one page from the INSIDE of a booklet for different outlets. I could totally see if it was the cover or whatever.
― "I am a fairly respected poster." (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:28 (thirteen years ago) link
especially bummed cuz i bought it at a local shoppe, not some monster chain store. considering swapping it in for an unfucked version somewhere else, but money's tight...
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:28 (thirteen years ago) link