yeah i didnt read the thread
― max, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:35 (thirteen years ago) link
andy k's review is great
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:35 (thirteen years ago) link
I don't even get what's that ambitious about MDTF itself - I get that the marketing, the good fridays, the multiple cover arts, the huge guest lists are ambitious etc., but what is 'musically ambitious' about this album?
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Monday, November 22, 2010 10:33 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
http://www.allmusic.com/album/my-beautiful-dark-twisted-fantasy-r2055009/review
agree about big boi, it's just a straight-up good album, and i can't deny that alex has a point about ambition/"importance"/etc.
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:36 (thirteen years ago) link
hey max:
can we keep the number of ppl on ilx that post as fake carles to under 2
― J0rdan S., Monday, November 22, 2010 3:22 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:37 (thirteen years ago) link
Andy's one of my favorite R&B/hip-hop critics, but I don't care for sentences like "Whether loved or loathed, fully enjoyed or merely admired, this album should be regarded as a deeply fascinating accomplishment." I mean -- "No."
― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:37 (thirteen years ago) link
Nothing exemplifies its contrasting elements and maniacal extravagance as much as “All of the Lights.” Rattling, raw, synthetic toms are embellished with brass, woodwinds, and strings. It’s a celebration of fame (“Fast cars, shooting stars”) and a lament of its consequences (“Restraining order/Can’t see my daughter”). Its making involved 42 people, including not one but two French horn players and over a dozen high-profile vocalists, only some of which are perceptible.
so Kanye is the broken social scene of rap
I get that the recording process was ambitious, but it doesn't sound ambitious, is all I'm sayin
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:37 (thirteen years ago) link
deej is right about big boi -- i think that you have to love it in spite of its staleness
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:38 (thirteen years ago) link
im not posting as fake carles i am just saying, real carles is otm
― max, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:38 (thirteen years ago) link
i am posting as fake jhøshea
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Monday, November 22, 2010 10:37 PM (7 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
so ... do u or do u not get why this wd be a 'pfork album'??
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:38 (thirteen years ago) link
the big boi album is like "break glass in case of there being no critically acclaimed southern rap album"
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:39 (thirteen years ago) link
this album sounds prety ambitious dude
― samosa gibreel, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:39 (thirteen years ago) link
the polyphonic kanyree
igi deej
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:39 (thirteen years ago) link
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Monday, November 22, 2010 10:37 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i dunno, rap music w/ huge instrumental suites & written as an exploration of the self & celebrity & ego & etc etc it all strikes me as rather unambiguously ambitious
whether or not u think that is a 'good thing' is up to you
i think this record is, at the v least, pretty fascinating, if not in a way that i find to be very replayable
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:40 (thirteen years ago) link
AMG review is excellent and way more efficient than that endless p4k tract (which come to think about it, fits the album perfectly)
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:40 (thirteen years ago) link
― J0rdan S., Monday, November 22, 2010 10:39 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
lol. 1 for the sticker
I've been arguing that p4k had to give this a 10.0 from the beginning, fwiw
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:40 (thirteen years ago) link
yes
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:41 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah - Rev, re: Jon Brion = artsy etc.... I mentioned the narrative, not because i necessarily think it's valid, but because i think it's KANYE's narrative. I think Miri Ben-Ari's arrangements on College Dropout are frequently way better than Brion's (with the exception of Gone, which is still one of my three favourite Kanye tracks, if not my absolute favourite. Gorgeous wonderful stuff.) But Kanye has always had a very explicit desire to go 'beyond' hip hop (which is stupid, for many many reasons) but him working with Jon Brion comes from the same impulse that leads to sampling King Crimson or Yes or Elton John or working with Bon Iver. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but all of it strikes me as part of that desperation for critical adulation (and popular adulation) that kanye has/had. even now that it's curdled to some extent.
― The SBurbs (Alex in Montreal), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:41 (thirteen years ago) link
― challop and a muff (deej), Monday, November 22, 2010 10:40 PM (45 seconds ago) Bookmark
i think i like my other zing -- 'only built 4 pazz & jop' -- better
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:42 (thirteen years ago) link
nitsuh otm, andy k otm, tom ewing otm, basically, is how i break it down, to an extent.
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:42 (thirteen years ago) link
atm, samosa, j0rdan & deej otm: hard to fathom it sounding merely ordinary to anyone
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:43 (thirteen years ago) link
That's the thing -- BB's album doesn't sound at all stale or canned to my ears. The good to great songs take a good musical idea and expand it within three to four minutes. I know it's a false dichotomy, but very little on MDTF startled me like the stuttering bullfrog thing on "Shutterbug" (I know, I know -- it's been attempted on "The Whole World") or the juxtaposition of guitar and percussion on "Tangerine" or Jamie Foxx's bit on "Hustle Blood."
― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:43 (thirteen years ago) link
There's just something very condescending about BIG! ARTISTIC! STATEMENTS! being praised by rock critics, seemingly only because it's a language they can understand.
― altered boners (rennavate), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:44 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm probably closest to Ewing and ship.
― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:44 (thirteen years ago) link
while we're choosing softball teams I'm with alfred and ship and lex
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:45 (thirteen years ago) link
as long as I'm in outfield with lex
― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:46 (thirteen years ago) link
one of you is the catcher
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:46 (thirteen years ago) link
― altered boners (rennavate), Monday, November 22, 2010 11:44 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
absolutely! but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. anyway, i do think there's plenty here worth keeping, ambition aside.
― The SBurbs (Alex in Montreal), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:47 (thirteen years ago) link
The 42 people involved thing just makes me think of the scene in Walk Hard where dude has a whole studio full of people trying to male the Sgt Peppers of cutting yr brother in half with a machete.
Also I thought max was the og fake carles?
― hoy orbison (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:48 (thirteen years ago) link
andy's review best aligns w/ my viewpoints
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:49 (thirteen years ago) link
the 42 people thing makes me think of phil spector stuffing 42 guitarists in a room, except that actually sounded good
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:49 (thirteen years ago) link
― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, November 22, 2010 10:43 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i think compared to a lot of other rap out this year, this stuff really wasnt all that novel.
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:51 (thirteen years ago) link
im the og real carles
― max, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:55 (thirteen years ago) link
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, November 23, 2010 12:41 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark
yes its ambitious for rap music but is it ambitious for 'music' as a collective whole?
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:56 (thirteen years ago) link
i love the big boi album when it's just rap music and not wacky novel ideas, & i love the prog retardation & excess of mbdtf more than the parts that resemble more closely rap music
― samosa gibreel, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:57 (thirteen years ago) link
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Monday, November 22, 2010 10:56 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
smh @ there being a difference
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:58 (thirteen years ago) link
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Monday, November 22, 2010 10:56 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
what other music (right now) is more ambitious than rap/r&b? i'd say nothing -- so i'd answer 'yes' to this question
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:58 (thirteen years ago) link
also that
idk, I'm just curious by what metrics does this sound ambitious, and the evidence you presented only make it sound ambitious within the landscape of rap
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:03 (thirteen years ago) link
except it is rap. so, wouldnt it be more ambitious than a non-rap artist doing the same things, but without u know rza beats & john legend cameos & groupie poems?
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:04 (thirteen years ago) link
In a Lil B world this doesn't seem to say AMBITIOUS, YO. Hell who didn't just rtde at seeing Elton John on here? How long ago was it he did the Grammys with Em? Yo Kanye our minds are blown you worked with a guy dead 2pac made it with first.
― hoy orbison (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:04 (thirteen years ago) link
well, i think theres something to be said for making something ambitious that lots of ppl want to hear vs. making something ambitious that a niche fanbase will put up with in small doses
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:06 (thirteen years ago) link
idg that last point you made deej
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:06 (thirteen years ago) link
im talking about lil b ambitious vs. kanye ambitious. you're as ambitious as your audience can let you be. in a merzbow world, how is kanye ambitious??
― challop and a muff (deej), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:09 (thirteen years ago) link
lil b is ambitious in a totally different way
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:10 (thirteen years ago) link
oh I meant the one before that one, about "so, wouldnt it be more ambitious than a non-rap artist doing the same things, but without u know rza beats & john legend cameos & groupie poems?"
― _| ̄|○| ̄|○| ̄|○ (dayo), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:11 (thirteen years ago) link
i think he means: its more ambitious for a rapper to make a prog album than for a prog band to make a prog album
― samosa gibreel, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:11 (thirteen years ago) link
lil b is ambitious in terms of work ethic & promotion & conceptualizing a persona (obv) but i mean straight music qua music, lil b is not on a 'twisted fantasy' level
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 23 November 2010 05:11 (thirteen years ago) link