ODD FUTURE WOLF GANG KILL THEM ALL

oh gimme a break

(DR's Himanshu Suri: "Yo no shots that Odd Future shit was fun but if we ain't ready they got a minute." Yup.) - village voice

lol surfboards you're making me feel bad that i backed you on this one big guy

jsut so everonye knows that's what it looks liek when an indie dude insists on bringing OF into their world and then blogs about for the sake of blogging

youre being weird

you're acting like an indie dude blogging

lol

watch the video of them at the chicken place where that girl calls them weird...

how did they 'rebut' anything i said? we are expressing diverse opinions on two artists ... im arguing for a subjective view of 'offensive' & they are explaining their perspectives of why one is up their alley and one is not. i dont see the contradiction

― smangs of new york (deej), Thursday, November 18, 2010 1:25 PM (32 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah i no, it's just that in that particular moment of the conversation, they dropped in to say they had your back, then took up what seemed to be the other side of the exchange. briefly baffling, but j0rdan cleared things up.

loving surfboard itt

can i just

i think about rape all the time and im 24. when i was 18? shhhhiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

― surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally, Monday, September 6, 2010 4:39 PM Bookmark

unsurfboards

super-late to this thread but I think these guys are pretty fun/funny. don't get the handwringing. this is so obviously comedy/OTT it doesn't bug me nearly as much as the much more common/much more irritating I R A HARDCORE DRUG DEALER FOR REAL nonsense

way better than Das Racist that's for fuckin sure

wait, BETTER than das racist, holy shit

lol

i don't really think anyone itt is saying they find OF more objectionable than other rap. but it's ridiculous to expect ppl not to have a moral response to something so provocative. like sometimes it scares me when i DON'T. for instance that 'mack a bitch' song by jackie chain when i first heard it i was like nodding my head along or whatever and took someone else (rev i think) pointing out how glaringly awful that song is for me to be like yeah wtf. fwiw i think tyler + co are obviously intelligent guys who are doing this on purpose but i don't see any other "normal" rappers bigging up chris brown for smacking women on their twitter.

more irritating I R A HARDCORE DRUG DEALER FOR REAL nonsense

seriously?

Instead they collaborate with him and make him richer and let everyone know that time heals all wounds even if you savagely beat your defenseless girlfriend

xp

GOLF WANG ftr

seriously?

my position on this topic is well-covered on the (somewhat tangentially related) first wave of wu solo albums poll thread

Instead they collaborate with him and make him richer and let everyone know that time heals all wounds even if you savagely beat your defenseless girlfriend

fair point. the only reason i raised the twitter thing is that these guys aren't doing this stuff as part of some dark horrorcore mind-of-a-psycho concept art. this is just the shit they really find funny.

anybody trying to sell their art by pretending to be anything "for real" kinda makes my eyes glaze over, tbh

...these guys aren't doing this stuff as part of some dark horrorcore mind-of-a-psycho concept art. this is just the shit they really find funny.

little of both, tbf

black rob really was black

Fat Joe really is fat

rappin' duke was in fact an archduke

anybody trying to sell their art by pretending to be anything "for real" kinda makes my eyes glaze over, tbh

― naked human hands and a foam rubber head (contenderizer), Thursday, November 18, 2010 6:03 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah but youre a corny dude

what is it with you and the word "corny"

Im going to articulate something here, not bcuz i think ppl are wrong about odd future, but because i think there's something being missed in what im saying, & i think there are probably lots of people who would agree with me even if they are unlikely to be ilxors for whatever reason.

I recently linked this song to nitsuh, cuz we were chatting about ta-nehisi's piece on how the crack epidemic disappearing would impact rap music & etc. In the piece, ta-nehisi mentions something along the lines of how rappers continue rapping as drug kingpins etc because rapping about the real realities of crack -- deadbeat dads, etc. -- is a nonstarter. Something I think that is missed, when we talk about all this stuff, is that a lot of times that stuff is always there. it's just subtext. Rappers are playing characters (and i mean this in the sense that everyone performing & presenting a persona in song ever is playing a character) w/in a world where a good portion of the audience takes a hood background as a given. That they know what this means -- that this means "holidays was the worst days," while a lot of critics focus on "sip champagne when we thirsty." Rappers started cutting out the first part of that as a given.

The song I linked to is about Max B & his girl going through problems, although the lyrics are a bit more impressionistic than that, & touch on a bunch of different stuff. But one part always sticks out to me because it all sounds so incredibly harsh & REAL.

"my father did the odd jobs / mama never worked, used to drug alot / now it feel good when she lean / never knew the meaning of fiend, watch her do the yola in front of me / used to bring the tools that she needed / a plate dropped, i would get a beating"

he drops it like it's nothing. just background. not trying to over-emote. cold. casually horrifying. In the context of the story, it's kind of surprisingly self-aware.

so when i hear max b dropping "bitch" in this song, is it a really depressing statement on the structural and personal inequalities towards women in this country? yes. but it's also like ... it's real. it's what this guy believes. he's not self-censoring. And u know what? that feels, as an honest expression, like a more powerful & ... weirdly ... less offensive thing to me as a result. It's not cartoony misogyny. Its real.

I know ppl like contenderizer have a thing abt "oh no rapper said "real" oh thats ridiculous cant he just embrace artifice" etc etc ... but ppl are 'really' going thru painful experiences, in real life, and these days, for me personally, this kind of stuff is way more likely to get me to confront & think about shit, inequalities & drug addiction & yeah max b's probably-gross attitude towards women, than some jokers acting juvenile does.

anyway, i dont think this proves im 'more right' but i do think its worth saying

that this means "holidays was the worst days," while a lot of critics focus on "sip champagne when we thirsty."

LOL

holidays?

dj holiday was the worst

or to use extreme examples. miles davis really beat women. he really did. is that more disturbing to me on a societal level, on a real-world level? yes. But im still going to listen to 'kind of blue' a lot more than i ever will odd future. i mean, thats a bit of a weighted comparison, bcuz miles didnt bring it up in his music (at least ... well im not getting into that)

idk. i think basically this odd future vs. ALL RAP is a bit of a weird debate bcuz you're talking about snoop's "you've got to control your hoe" in the same breath as pharoah monch telling girls to rub on their titties, one seems way worse than the other, etc.

i know youve listened to girltalk more than me n/a no need to rub it in

the way you blithely move from point a) "Rappers are playing characters (and i mean this in the sense that everyone performing & presenting a persona in song ever is playing a character)" to point b) "but it's also like ... it's real. it's what this guy believes. he's not self-censoring" and use the latter to justify the former (especially when it's convenient for whatever point you want to make) is really... I don't know what to call it. it's not intellectually dishonest because I get that you really believe this stuff but it's sort of disconcerting. you do this a lot.

xp

shakey i dont think u 'get it'

maybe you could catch up on your girl talk over the next holiday

as a listener, if im buying what hes doing im suspending disbelief abt whether or not anyone is 'really' who they say they are. whether u like a rapper is based on salesmanship!

dj holiday drops have ruined every rap song ever somehow

like you resort to the "it's not REAL" defense when it's handy (ie, hey they aren't REALLY crack dealers, advocating shooting fags, etc.), and then turn around and use "but this is so REAL!" as a defense IN THE SAME POST. like wtf man

or maybe your point is that characters/personas are most effective when they're reflecting reality in a profound way, but I dunno that isn't how you put it across.

xp

dude think about rappers as being like The Wire. does that help at all? the wire is SO REAL but its NOT REAL. right?

"OMG this character is SO REAL this REALLY REPRESENTS the difficulties of ppl vs. institutions" etc

or maybe your point is that characters/personas are most effective when they're reflecting reality in a profound way, but I dunno that isn't how you put it across.

xp

― you can sub out "bipartisan solutions" for "some of my dick" (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, November 18, 2010 6:50 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i guess if u default assume im a moron all the time?

its funny i think anti-new-rap dudes have been talking so much shit about 'authenticity' for so long theyve missed how it actually operates

the wire is SO REAL but its NOT REAL. right?

the Wire was so corny dude lol

I mean a magical gay thug stickup man? gtfo

oh lord i forgot u were a hater
at least this will help me get consensus on my side lol

another rap thread ruined, if only there was a vigilante to save us

i don't agree w/ deej but his post about max b is a v good post

i get where deej is coming from here, sort of. and agree that that was an excellent post. thing is, i want to be convinced by the supposed "reality" of the fiction, and at the same time, i want to be caught up in the fictional qualities of whatever reality is being reflected. but i don't fundamentally much care about what's REALLY real and what isn't, unless the reality is plain as the fat on fat joe. this keeps my appreciation confined to the more fictional side of things: what's the story, is it told well, and does it engage me somehow.

otoh, i totally don't buy deej's justification of really real misogyny:

so when i hear max b dropping "bitch" in this song, is it a really depressing statement on the structural and personal inequalities towards women in this country? yes. but it's also like ... it's real. it's what this guy believes. he's not self-censoring. And u know what? that feels, as an honest expression, like a more powerful & ... weirdly ... less offensive thing to me as a result. It's not cartoony misogyny. Its real.

feel totally the opposite here. the fact that it at least seems real (much as i try to avoid engaging on that "who is the REAL author?" level) makes all that much more depressing. powerful, yes, but only in the same way that real life horrors are always more "powerful" than their fictional equivalents. better to tell a horror story than to be one, imo.

better to tell a horror story than to be one, imo.

suspect that a number of rap & black metal fans will disagree with me there

it makes life more depressing, but to me, at this current time, more engaging xp