Metal Box -- does anyone hate this as much as me?

Mostly, I think the instrumental arrangements are much, much stronger and support the stuff Lydon's doing vocally. Also I really, really, really like the guitar work on that album.

After the Sex Pistols, Lydon could've done anything he wanted, including hiring the best session musicians he could find (as he did later on Album Generic PiL). He didn't, and that was a clear and conscious decision as much as hiring trained musicians was. Lydon wasn't just some idiot on the loose in the studio. He's a smart guy, and he had some definite ideas about what he wanted to get done and how he was going to go about doing it. They all involved purposefully violating most of the common practices of musical decency and good taste, however.

I'm not a tonedeaf nincompoop; matter of fact it irritates when Nelly Furtado or Ashelee Simpson or whoever is singing out of tune on national television. But that's because of the context, as you point out w/ Carol Channing. The point of those PiL albums was to explore chance, purposeful incompetence, experimentation, abrasiveness, and dissonance.

They had to be on to something - people are still listening to and analyzing these records today, and that's based on more than just Lydon's cult of personality (at least, it is for me).

Even at the time the records had quite an impact, and not just among the scuzzy punk rabble, because of Lydon's decisions. Example: He kicked out the engineer assigned to Flowers of Romance because he could tell the tape op was an able, competent, knowledgeable, thinking person who was willing to take chances and work unconventionally. Result? Phil Collins later hired as an engineer the tape op that Lydon had personally raised the profile of; he wanted that same exquisitely massive drum sound (sidenote: Dan, don't ever listen to Flowers of Romance - it makes Metal Box sound like Gaucho). Jah Wobble had never played bass before Lydon tapped him for PiL. Result? Kate Bush purchased Wobble's bass rig because she wanted that huge sound he became famous for.

Even saying "I can't sing for shit but I've got something interesting to say so I'm just gonna do it" is a clear and conscious decision (as opposed to saying "I don't know how to sing, I'm going to take lessons until I'm good enough" or "I don't know how to sing I'm just going to stay off the stage") - though it seems to be one you don't approve of. If you disagree with the underlying conceptual framework of those PiL albums, then yeah, of course you're going to hate them. That doesn't mean there weren't concepts behind them.

From a percussive standpoint, I think Dan would like Flowers far more than Metal Box/Second Edition

"Metal Box" is a colossal record for me personally, as is "Flowers of Romance". Won't hear a word against them -- would that more people made records this audacious. I remember there being a little cottage industry of offshoot bands -- the Basement 5 and the Bollock Brothers, for instance -- but somehow rock never picked up on this strand, this sound. People might say My Bloody Valentine came close, or PRML SCRM. But those bands are dreamy-romantic or adolescent-commercial in comparison. Nobody matches the utter don't-give-a-fuck nihilism of "Metal Box", and I think that attitude also becomes a sound that nobody matches.

Do I think Dan should give Metal Box another chance? Sure.

Does he have to? No.

O TEH ROCK CANON COLORED GLASSIZ

(teasing)

I'd say the same about Flipper's Gone Fishin'

"One By One" in particular. Oh man.

-- San Diva Gyna (and a Masala DOsaNUT on the side) (dot@dot.dot), July 13th, 2006.

That kind of makes sense - there's a certain sensuality to Skinny Puppy; PiL was aggressively trying to destroy any pleasure people could take from their music, they really rub the listener's nose in it. Think about it: First Issue comes out, and people say, "Great rock record! Love those riffs!". Now then, let's destroy the guitars for Metal Box! People say, "At least the bass is still incredible." Fuck that, fire Jah Wobble for Flowers of Romance!

Fact remains I've got plenty of "fuck you" records on the shelf (Metal Machine Music or Jehovah My Black Ass... REM Is Air Supply anyone?) and none of them get pulled down with the frequency of Metal Box or Flowers of Romance.

Uh-oh, kudos from Momus! Isn't that the kiss of death in these here parts? ;)

I can totally see what Momus is saying here, BTW.

fuck i wish i knew where that tape was.

btw - i too tried this album once when i picked it up for a fiver, and thought 'WTF', however, this thread is making me listen again.

ta

I think this should be your new screen name, Donut. Either that or a band name.

I think "at length" and "to a great extent" are the same. Tell us Dan Perry, what draws you to the (metal) box repeatedly despite your disinterest!

(to the tune of "Big Rock Candy Mountain")

Or John Lydon covering "Domino Dancing."

I remember making cookies once when I first heard and went crazy over Jane's Addiction "Mountain Song".

All gone!

Woah!

the 'albatross' version has phasing all over the drums and what might be a slowed-down melodica. it also has lydon squawking "i am an albatross!" in parts. an... acquired taste.

WOW! Hooray! one of my favourite tracks of all time is now 10 minutes long! It's a little off the 'perfect hi-fi experience' but it's well worth getting and THANKS! for telling me about it.

Mind you, that 'remix' of Albatross is as I said above. It has an 'augustus pablo' style melodica, and someone squawking as per "fodderstompf" over the top. Whatever they are saying you can't tell as it's all drowned out by the melodica. And, suspiciously, the track fades out at exactly the same point as the album track. Is it a fake? Well, if it had been mixed better, it might have been interesting. But then it might have showed up the fakery, if it is such.

American Bandstand - "Poptones"

It seems both tracks have been nicked from the "Best of British £1 notes" DVD of John Lydon.

Apparently, it has three 'monitor mixes' of MB tracks. So, go there.