classic Wu-Tang solo run poll

If you seriously cannot see why the pejorative connotation of "dated" is implied when used to expound upon why something is "corny", I don't think this argument will ever end.

maybe if I just say that by itself, you will actually read it

i mean, i still like the album. like whiney said a lot of that stuff, esp 'feminine like sandals!!!' is still charming in its way. but yeah GZA's style is super dated sounding relative to the rest (which makes sense, hes the oldest dude in the clan right?)

― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 9:39 AM (2 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it's super awesome like bellbottoms

OB4CL, duh.

it's so gloriously of its time that's SUPER of its time

"haha deej at what point could you possibly ever thing maybe it's not worth it to keep this up"

Never! That's what makes him deej!

Really the only issue I have with that post is that, after listening to Tical for two days straight, I don't really see how GZA is any more dated than anyone else listed in this poll.

You do similar things all throughout the argument where you make a pronouncement ("GZA's metaphors make the street vibe he's going for incoherent") and then backing off or significantly altering the statement when challenged (others: "uh, GZA was just as much about wordplay as he was about being from the streets; that was an integral part of the persona and the lyrical structure that made him unique and you can't divorce one from the other" you: "oh I know!")

The real problem, as I will say again, is that you are using sledgehammer rhetoric to make needlepoint observations. If people are arguing against exaggerated caricatures of your actual points, it's because YOU ARE EXAGGERATING THEM.

― GLEERILLAZ! (HI DERE), Friday, October 15, 2010 2:58 PM (32 seconds ago) Bookmark

this is a tool ppl use on ilx all the time! moonship does this kind of thing a lot & it makes dance threads more interesting. like i said upthread (for the 10th time) this is not an alien tactic of discussion for music on ilx. why is it a surprise to you?

more specific to that example: gza's metaphors dont make the street vibe 'incoherent,' i just said that by modern standards they undercut it somewhat. yes hes going for lyrical x street, but when the lyrical outbalances, it doesnt sound as effective. by modern standards, raekwon balanced that better

is that clear now? does that really sound like im 'doubling back' or can you understand my point?

I understood your point yesterday.

Please see again the "we aren't stupid, stupid" post.

When moonship does it you don't complain is such a weird argument to make...

Really the only issue I have with that post is that, after listening to Tical for two days straight, I don't really see how GZA is any more dated than anyone else listed in this poll.

― GLEERILLAZ! (HI DERE), Friday, October 15, 2010 3:02 PM (10 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

method's 'dont eat skippy jif or peter pan' lyrics dont seem v modern or anticipatory either

hey dan, can you bring ask http://i54.tinypic.com/11l4yvn.gif back for this weekend so we can poll deej in this thread vs deej in the paper planes thread

Never! That's what makes him deej!

― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Friday, October 15, 2010 3:02 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

is what makes alex in sf alex in sf posting repeatedly as a troll instead of engaging in discussion, and if so why is he allowed to post here?

guys im 100% right about dated. some fashions are dated & become cool again because they look dated. dated is a pejorative only to a degree. 'dated' is all about context. how can you not see that? wood paneling is 'dated' but if you like a 70s look you can like wood paneling. this isnt hard to comprehend

next time you walk into somebody's retro styled apartment, I dare you to say, "wow this place looks so dated!"

also I never read the dance threads anymore, so I never see moonship make these types of rhetorical comments, and usually when other people do similar things and someone says something, the normal response is "well, that was intentional rhetorical overstatement" and then everyone goes along their merry way

If you seriously cannot see why the pejorative connotation of "dated" is implied when used to expound upon why something is "corny", I don't think this argument will ever end.

― GLEERILLAZ! (HI DERE), Friday, October 15, 2010 3:00 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ok. i agree that ppl could see that being pejorative. but isnt this the nature of discussion on ilx about music? why are we only getting meta about it here? like i said when we discussed 'dated' its about what you bring to the term. yeah it can be pejorative, but its a lot of other things too, its a word that operates as a tool, not as a static definition

prolly because you say stuff like "guys I'm 100% right"

which is one step from "I'd like to point out I've been OTM in in this thread"

"ok. i agree that ppl could see that being pejorative."

Total backpedal here btw.

method's 'dont eat skippy jif or peter pan' lyrics dont seem v modern or anticipatory either

peanut butter metaphors were held in such a different light in the 90s than now

Just wanted to point that out for the people keeping score of this nonsense.

There were less peanut allergies. The rise of environmental allergies is true to the street as it is right now.

xpost

"is what makes alex in sf alex in sf posting repeatedly as a troll instead of engaging in discussion"

Possibly. I also post on reggae threads though as you helpfully pointed out.

"and if so why is he allowed to post here"

Cuz no one except you seems to care?

btw deej I'm not trying to bag on you here, just pointing out that what you are saying itt is far less controversial than how you're saying it, so arguing the facts of the case is a little beside the point and beyond the scope of 90s rap style preferences

"ok. i agree that ppl could see that being pejorative."

Total backpedal here btw.

― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Friday, October 15, 2010 3:08 PM (52 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

um, no. i said it doesnt have to be pejorative, not that ppl couldnt interpret it that way yeesh

Cuz no one except you seems to care?

― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Friday, October 15, 2010 3:11 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

bcuz youre not trolling anyone else?

people, let's be clear

if you ever disagree with deej, or find backpedaling like:

rappers inhabit personas more fully now

― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 5:23 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

fwiw i dont mean artistic consistency, i mean holding together a consistent persona that is fleshed out more than 'really good rapper'

― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 11:49 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i may have been misleading here. im talking about them not thinking about being characters, just being regular dudes who were good rappers. they were just 'them.' the im not a rapper im a trapper thing comes later (or im not a rapper im an arty weirdo, im not a rapper im a prophet, im not a rapper im FLOCkA!)

― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, October 14, 2010 12:07 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it's not backpedaling. you are just reading him wrong.

srsly what bullshit: rappers whose persona was more fully fleshed out than "really good rapper" (requoting myself: cube, eazy, cold 187um, shock/humpty, g rap, ice t) were wholly prevalent. you ignore all this in favor of a narrative you coined that you like. it's a bullshit narrative, but you dig it, so you dismiss these clear refutations.

o man, you and deej should just get married

i never said there werent rappers who DID have that going for them!! what are you talking about!! the entire premise of this thread was that some anticipated and some did not!!

btw I have a dollar that says we get to argue about the clear & accepted meaning of the word "backpedal" for at least fifty posts now

btw deej I'm not trying to bag on you here, just pointing out that what you are saying itt is far less controversial than how you're saying it, so arguing the facts of the case is a little beside the point and beyond the scope of 90s rap style preferences

― outdated dbpoweramp codecs I have loved (Edward III), Friday, October 15, 2010 3:14 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

its apparently not besides the point for several ppl posting itt!

no kidding

btw I have a dollar that says we get to argue about the clear & accepted meaning of the word "backpedal" for at least fifty posts now

― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Friday, October 15, 2010 3:23 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

in which case you should stop using it as some rhetorical trump card

"anticipated" lol. people were already doing it and it was in no way a new development any more than the idea of poetically inhabited personae was a new development, this is my entire beef with you, that you have this radically myopic "the present must necessarily represent progress" stance w/r/t rap that runs counter to everything we know about the birth & growth of new forms

apparently 'clarification' = 'backpedaling' despite no actual contradictions existing

i think deej just wanted to coin is own narrative cuz he's jealous of sean f and sylvester

I'm pretty sure the entire premise of this thread is "which of these albums do you like the most"

sad lol @ deej being 100% incapable of owning up

for deej, a backpedal must be clear and present - a person must say "the sky is blue" and then later say "the sky is not blue." nothing else qualifies. better luck next time, people who just mindlessly gangpile on deej & are all reading him wrong all the time & just don't understand his point!

this is like clash of the trolls

lol stfu Edward :)

Anybody else here want some popcorn?

what do you guys think about u god thats what I want to know

his solo album is rly underrated imo

i think he was pretty anticipatory of modern rappers and modern rap styles in that they're underrated too

"anticipated" lol. people were already doing it and it was in no way a new development any more than the idea of poetically inhabited personae was a new development, this is my entire beef with you, that you have this radically myopic "the present must necessarily represent progress" stance w/r/t rap that runs counter to everything we know about the birth & growth of new forms

― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Friday, October 15, 2010 3:25 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i dont believe in the 'progress' thing this is more of a contextual argument as explained by tim upthread

i think he was pretty anticipatory of modern rappers and modern rap styles in that they're underrated too

― da croupier, Friday, October 15, 2010 3:32 PM (26 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

funny to hear a 'lol...thinking' argument from you

rappers inhabit personas more fully now

― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 5:23 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i dont believe in the 'progress' thing

― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Friday, October 15, 2010 8:32 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

for deej, a backpedal must be clear and present - a person must say "the sky is blue" and then later say "the sky is not blue." nothing else qualifies. better luck next time, people who just mindlessly gangpile on deej & are all reading him wrong all the time & just don't understand his point!

― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Friday, October 15, 2010 3:28 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

u are the one who accused me of thinking that scarface fantasies were cnn-of-the-streets type rap. a distortion, or simple misunderstanding? idk

look, i just want to let people know now, that if they don't flee this thread like they're extras in "cloverfield", deej will continue to respond to individual sentences in people's posts until infinity