deej I would be willing to buy the argument that within the (sub-)genre of coke rap (or whatever-rap), as defined by its broad generic constraints, there are dudes today who are as innovative and awesome and crucial as anyone ever, and that they have probably gotten to that point by developing stories and characters and shedding 'foreign elements' that had roots in the pre-coke-rap era like goofy similes or whatever -- but I absolutely categorically refuse to admit that this says something about "rap" as a whole, especially when it has developed parallel to the mainstream rap scene that recently gave us GROCERY BAG
― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:13 (thirteen years ago) link
imo, shouty 'you can call me sire!' rap doesnt anticipate the kind of turn rap would take the way rakim's persona & personality would on 'paid in full'
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:14 (thirteen years ago) link
COKE RAP IS NOT A SUBGENRE OR GENRE
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:15 (thirteen years ago) link
IT IS A CONSTRUCT Of A HANDFUL OF RAP WRITERS WHO REALLY likED THE CLIPSE & oVERRATED THE NEPTUNES
rakim had a different flow, but i'm pretty sure he thought you could call him sire
― da croupier, Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:16 (thirteen years ago) link
think of it like this -- there are dudes doing wordplaythose guys become more marginal as time goes on
finding it a little ironic you think I'm reductive about rap when you're on this "wordplay is out, real is in!" tip
― da croupier, Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:17 (thirteen years ago) link
― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:13 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
but on the rest of your point, yeah there's been a recent shift in this direction -- my hypothesis would be that this is a temporary shift towards corny similies (& drake's recent "i dont rap like that any more its played out" thing suggests i might be right) that was a result of lil wayne's huge popularity. obv it could shift punchline rappers back into fashion -- but you're still talking about dudes w/in the vein of lil wayne which is (gasp) "coke rap" (which doesnt really exist but i assume you mean the stuff that came out of cash money would qualify in your imaginary genre)
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:18 (thirteen years ago) link
― da croupier, Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:17 PM (36 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
you think GZA style wordplay is really hot right now?
Waka isnt one of the most popular rappers out right now?
― da croupier, Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:16 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
... and yet he would never say it in a corny way like that
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:19 (thirteen years ago) link
"The word 'precursor' is indispensable to the vocabulary of criticism, but one must try to purify it from any connotation of polemic or rivalry. The fact is that each writer creates his precursors. His work modifies our conception of the past, as it will modify the future."
― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:19 (thirteen years ago) link
croupier i know this theory doesnt fit into your bias towards music that is un-selfaware and silly (when not performed by the electric 6) but i dont think im really saying anything radical here
― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:19 PM (10 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
hey im totally flexible here!! who knows what could happen. im just HYPOTHESIZING
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:20 (thirteen years ago) link
i remember when metal dudes used to get all mad and tell you "speed metal" wasn't a genre
― rusko p. coltrane (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:20 (thirteen years ago) link
you guys, dont you realize sean f & nick sylvester basically created 'coke rap' in a pfork staffboard lab back in '06
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:21 (thirteen years ago) link
i know you're on this "hey it's all subjective" thing, but to act like there's a demonstrative difference between Run-DMC saying "sucker MCs should call me sire" and Rakim's "I melted microphones instead of cones of ice cream" is pretty absurd
― da croupier, Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:22 (thirteen years ago) link
how else are we supposed to evaluate art? i hear a pretty qualitative difference between those two quotes. if you dont think one sounds cornier than the other then, ok, you dont. but i think its pretty self-evident, even if subjective
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:23 (thirteen years ago) link
anyway im going to dinner yall have fun play nice
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:26 (thirteen years ago) link
are you saying rakim is just less corny? cuz you previously said shouty 'you can call me sire!' rap doesnt anticipate the kind of turn rap would take the way rakim's persona & personality would on 'paid in full' and well, both were braggarts!
― da croupier, Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:26 (thirteen years ago) link
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/10/12/arts/13sann.1.184.jpg
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:27 (thirteen years ago) link
― da croupier, Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:26 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
what does bragging have to do w/ this?
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:28 (thirteen years ago) link
couldnt resist a refresh
i hear a pretty qualitative difference between those two quotes.
the thing is this: if you can't state what that qualitative difference is in formal terms, then you oughtn't assert a difference; you should just say that you prefer one to the other. imo.
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:28 (thirteen years ago) link
so by "persona & personality" i guess you mean flow and not persona & personality
― da croupier, Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:29 (thirteen years ago) link
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:27 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
thats a t shirt not a genre
RIP the Luniz Condom genre of Sex Rap
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:29 (thirteen years ago) link
― da croupier, Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:29 PM (4 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
flow is a part of personality -- this is so obvious that i swear you are trolling
aesthetics are a part of personality
you're right deej
hardly anybody rapping about dealing coke
it's more a blown out of proportion by the media thing
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:29 (thirteen years ago) link
i give up
― da croupier, Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:30 (thirteen years ago) link
i remember reading a like four-page story on coke-rap in XXL
― rusko p. coltrane (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:30 (thirteen years ago) link
i love the idea that the notion of "coke rap" was started by sylvester & sean f on the pfork staff board -- it's very tea party
― truly blunted rhyme fiend (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:30 (thirteen years ago) link
xp @ deep YOU WERE THE GUY USING ONE DUDE'S FORMER-CRACK-BABY STATUS FOR POINTS ON A THREAD a few minutes ago, btw
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:30 (thirteen years ago) link
seriously, if you can't see how the rapper who rapped smooth and fast about how great he was and the rappers who rapped slow and loud about how great they were share similar "personas & personality"...fine.
― da croupier, Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:31 (thirteen years ago) link
i hope shakey can appreciate a conspiracy theory of this level
― truly blunted rhyme fiend (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:31 (thirteen years ago) link
xp @ deep
very unfortunate typo
― rusko p. coltrane (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:32 (thirteen years ago) link
dude I'm pretty sure you know what I mean by "coke rap". but maybe you don't? so I dunno, lemme try to spell out what bugs me about this whole conversation:
- You think GZA's style sounds played-out; other people don't. So far, no problem.- You attribute this to his use of certain forms of 'wordplay' which have since fallen out of fashion.- You attribute this falling-out-of-fashion to an increased emphasis on 'persona/character'.- You posit that rappers who never succumbed to the temptations of wordplay were objectively better ("timeless") thanks to their uncanny foresight into the future evolution of rap, or what-the-fuck-ever.- Numerous people protest that both wordplay and persona have been part of rap from the start; that it's pretty silly to talk about an overall "direction" of something which continues to evolve and change; that you're using a narrow criterion of 'persona' that tautologically asserts the superiority of -- surprise! -- the very same stylistic devices that rappers with those personas tend to have used to construct them, while consigning everything else to some realm of naive outdated 'character-breaking' shit; and probably some other arguments, because JESUS MAN
― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:32 (thirteen years ago) link
(many xposts, obv)
― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:33 (thirteen years ago) link
and I might be talkin' to a dude who's not even here anymore
― rmde and dangerous (bernard snowy), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:34 (thirteen years ago) link
oh don't worry, he'll be back
― truly blunted rhyme fiend (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:35 (thirteen years ago) link
should i put out the gucci call?
― rusko p. coltrane (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:36 (thirteen years ago) link
if the "paper planes" argument taught us anything, it's that a little dinner is not gonna come in between a depressingly long argument b/w deej & miccio
― truly blunted rhyme fiend (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:37 (thirteen years ago) link
haha i said i'm done! should have learned from that that trying to unpack his terminology just gets you a lot of "hey it's all subjective man" jive. Apologies to everybody that just wanted to rank the wu debuts
― da croupier, Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:39 (thirteen years ago) link
"there's no such thing as a crime novel - crime is an element in many novels, but to then group all which adhere to some fairly strict constraints of tone & style & theme under the term 'crime novels' is just insane"
― drawl the whine (underrated aerosmith albums I have loved), Thursday, 14 October 2010 00:39 (thirteen years ago) link
I have had to come back and refresh this thread three times before getting a chance to say but
So yeah, Meth has three platinum albums whereas Ghost has only one (Ironman).
Four if you count Blackout! That discography is also really interesting to note how generous Meth has been about appearing on almost any other Clan solo album that wants him, which has an additional effect of increasing his “brand awareness,” as a business-minded coke dealer might say
― Mary Lynn Ice Cube (sic), Thursday, 14 October 2010 01:02 (thirteen years ago) link
i never even thought GZA was especially cokey. dude always talked about mind elevation and dickhead record labels are iirc
― rusko p. coltrane (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 14 October 2010 01:09 (thirteen years ago) link
reminds me of the '86 secret meeting in Vienna where Geir invented power pop
― i was like a person at a table at a place (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 October 2010 02:56 (thirteen years ago) link
he did bring out the girls for a mud fight that one time
xp
― vehemence is mine (Edward III), Thursday, 14 October 2010 13:51 (thirteen years ago) link
this is some bullshit
― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Thursday, 14 October 2010 13:56 (thirteen years ago) link
the everybody vs deej pileon i mean
- You posit that rappers who never succumbed to the temptations of wordplay were objectively better ("timeless") thanks to their uncanny foresight into the future evolution of rap, or what-the-fuck-ever.
bullshit